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Marcus Cisero

NCAA Cancellation: Which D1 Wrestler Had The Most to Lose?

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36 minutes ago, whaletail said:

 Yeah, he won't have 4 trophies, and subsequent programs will list him as a 3x champ, but his legacy won't suffer in the slightest.  

That sentence demonstrates exactly how his legacy suffers . . .  Yea, us diehards who were around to see him and, in my case, all the other 4 timers, know he is at the same level at least.  But anyone coming to the sport new is not going to know it or have it easily explained to them in the same way it is easy to say, "yea, that guy is an all timer, winning 4 titles like only 4 others could."  There are a few three 3 timers who, overall, I consider to have had better careers than Pat Smith and Logan Steiber but those two guys are always going to be, by one important metric, lumped in the same group as Carl and Dake as the "best ever" because they are only ones to win 4.  Spencer's legacy will require more explaining, which just means it will get more easily lost.

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Vincenzo Joseph shot at being a three-timer is a plateau far above being a two-timer IMO.

 

was also thinking about this recently...

The two most highly touted recruits (ever?) Gable and Steveson through 6 seasons have combine for ‘only’ 1 championship and 4 AA. Thanks Corona.

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16 hours ago, shieldofpistis said:

I think it was 2 counts.  But I also think once the ref started counting Lugo would have moved.  And we don't know what would have happened after that

Now I'm really confused. If you think it's 2 counts then there's no controversy and your whole point becomes moot. You need 3 counts for the takedown. 

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Taylor Lujan for me. He grew up 10 miles away and I got opportunities to see him compete since he was young.  Idk if he would have won and become Georgia’s first NCAA D1 Champion. He did become the second ever #1 seed from Georgia - Charlie Heard UTC @118 in 1984 was the first. 

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4 hours ago, Broomstick said:

That sentence demonstrates exactly how his legacy suffers . . .  Yea, us diehards who were around to see him and, in my case, all the other 4 timers, know he is at the same level at least.  But anyone coming to the sport new is not going to know it or have it easily explained to them in the same way it is easy to say, "yea, that guy is an all timer, winning 4 titles like only 4 others could."  There are a few three 3 timers who, overall, I consider to have had better careers than Pat Smith and Logan Steiber but those two guys are always going to be, by one important metric, lumped in the same group as Carl and Dake as the "best ever" because they are only ones to win 4.  Spencer's legacy will require more explaining, which just means it will get more easily lost.

I guess I think he's transcendent enough (and lost the "right" year) that no current fan needs an explanation, and new fans will need explanations regardless.

I mean, yeah, new fans learn Pat Smith was the first 4x champ and respect him for that alone, but w/o hearing from people that watched him wrestle, etc. that initial respect is sort of meaningless.

New fans can see Kyle Dake was a 4xer, at 4 different weights, but until they hear about his decision to go up and face the Magic Man at 165 for his fourth title, and learn how good the latter is/was, they'll never understand just how special Dake's career was.

And if we're honest, new fans probably never really appreciate those before their time as much as those who watched them originally.

From that perspective, as much as I recognize he lost something big, I believe Spencer's legacy remains untarnished by the lost championship.  New fans will likely never even hear about Lujan at all.

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