Will other teams be dropped now?

[calot 199]

10 hours ago, Pinnum said:

The very real scenario here is that football is delayed a few weeks and the first three weeks of the season are cancelled.

This is particularly significant because it would help salvage the budgets of the top programs as their conference games, championships, and bowls are the big events.  But it would remove the non-conference games and be devastating for the non-P5 programs that rely on the non-conference to help balance their budgets.

I will give one wrestling program example of how removing non-conference games and not playing the first three or four weeks of the season would have a significant impact on the budgets.

Buffalo
- Week 1: $900k from Kansas State
- Week 3: $1.8 Million from Ohio State

To put that into perspective, each school in the MAC gets around $700k a year for the TV deal for all their sports--including basketball and football--from ESPN.  They would be better off financially cancelling their conference games and playing non-conference games.  

I chose Buffalo because they are pretty safe due to the recent elimination of their baseball, soccer, and swimming programs.    So Buffalo is now at minimum number of sports to stay in D1.  I didn't want to call out any programs which I think are most at risk.

But there are many other programs that aren't as safe.  And this isn't just the programs that are dependent on P5 football guarantee games.  FCS programs will see the impact from G5 programs not being able to pay them what they are use to.  And non-football schools will see their basketball guarantees start to dry up which will put their basketball budgets in free fall.

And this all assumes that there isn't a significant drop in enrollment or student fees.  The one saving grace may be that more people are likely to enroll in college in an economic crisis, so an increase in enrollment would provide more student fees to fund sports (thanks to cheap government backed student loans). 

 

Ncaa could drop the minimum number of sports it has been discussed in the past.Wouldnt shock me if this situation makes that happen

[Pinnum 796]

9 minutes ago, calot said:

Ncaa could drop the minimum number of sports it has been discussed in the past.Wouldnt shock me if this situation makes that happen

Membership won’t approve it.  
 

It is a great way to ensure the P5 schools can keep their distance.  And there are many lower budget schools like Davidson and Harvard that are committed to offering a lot of sports and wouldn’t support it.   
 

MAC, CUSA, and even the American would support reducing sports but it wouldn’t get wide support by the membership.  
 

The more likely scenario is that scholarship limits are reduced.  There would be more schools in support of reducing scholarship limits, such as moving wrestling from 9.9 to 8.5 scholarships.  Also, a reduction of coaching staffs would be a possible proposal the membership would support.  
 

 

 

[Plasmodium 1,603]

Full disclosure: I am a cheap bass turd. Still, we spend wayyyy too much on college sports. All sports should have caps and be more in line with Adams State than Penn Sate. 

[calot 199]

18 minutes ago, Pinnum said:

Membership won’t approve it.  
 

It is a great way to ensure the P5 schools can keep their distance.  And there are many lower budget schools like Davidson and Harvard that are committed to offering a lot of sports and wouldn’t support it.   
 

MAC, CUSA, and even the American would support reducing sports but it wouldn’t get wide support by the membership.  
 

The more likely scenario is that scholarship limits are reduced.  There would be more schools in support of reducing scholarship limits, such as moving wrestling from 9.9 to 8.5 scholarships.  Also, a reduction of coaching staffs would be a possible proposal the membership would support.  
 

 

 

In normal times they won't vote that way but with the financial issues that could all change. 

[Pinnum 796]

4 minutes ago, calot said:

In normal times they won't vote that way but with the financial issues that could all change. 

No, they won’t.  
 

It’s about the incentives.  Very few schools are already down to the limit.  So schools still can make cuts if they want.  
 

The only schools that would vote to reduce the number are the ones trying to drop below the current number.  And the other schools don’t want to give those schools the ability to be able to compete with them.
 

Charlotte sponsors nine men’s teams in CUSA while ODU only sponsors six.  If Charlotte votes to allow ODU to stay D1 with five teams then they are voting for ODU to have a competitive advantage over them.  
 

Charlotte is better off with ODU having six sports and cutting funding for each of them.  Or better yet leaving CUSA and dropping a level (though unlikely). 
 

What a school like Charlotte and ODU May agree on though is that many sports offer too many scholarships or coaches.  If they vote for these limits they aren’t providing an advantage to their competition like you propose but putting their large budget competitors at a disadvantage.  UVA, UNC, and Penn State might have money for a ton of scholarships and a ton of coaches but if they can’t give them to a lot of athletes and coaches then it doesn’t mean much.  And with fewer scholarships to those other schools, those good athletes will start taking scholarships to Charlotte and ODU.  
 

Baseball did this a while back. They put reforms in place that impacted scholarships and roster sizes and it resulted in the most exciting national tournaments because mid majors are now landing great players and going toe to toe with the top programs.

[ConnorsDad 570]

Yes, the ODU thing has been in the works for awhile. But also, while droppi g wrestling they are adding eomens volleyball! Sad day!

[cjc007 653]

Keep in mind the ODU program was not even "on the ropes".

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[calot 199]

8 hours ago, Pinnum said:

No, they won’t.  
 

It’s about the incentives.  Very few schools are already down to the limit.  So schools still can make cuts if they want.  
 

The only schools that would vote to reduce the number are the ones trying to drop below the current number.  And the other schools don’t want to give those schools the ability to be able to compete with them.
 

Charlotte sponsors nine men’s teams in CUSA while ODU only sponsors six.  If Charlotte votes to allow ODU to stay D1 with five teams then they are voting for ODU to have a competitive advantage over them.  
 

Charlotte is better off with ODU having six sports and cutting funding for each of them.  Or better yet leaving CUSA and dropping a level (though unlikely). 
 

What a school like Charlotte and ODU May agree on though is that many sports offer too many scholarships or coaches.  If they vote for these limits they aren’t providing an advantage to their competition like you propose but putting their large budget competitors at a disadvantage.  UVA, UNC, and Penn State might have money for a ton of scholarships and a ton of coaches but if they can’t give them to a lot of athletes and coaches then it doesn’t mean much.  And with fewer scholarships to those other schools, those good athletes will start taking scholarships to Charlotte and ODU.  
 

Baseball did this a while back. They put reforms in place that impacted scholarships and roster sizes and it resulted in the most exciting national tournaments because mid majors are now landing great players and going toe to toe with the top programs.

We all have opinions and mine is that dropping down 2 sports  is a real possibility.Yours is that it won't happen.We can agree to disagree and time will tell.

[Plasmodium 1,603]

Here is an informative article of ODU and college sports in general.  https://www.pilotonline.com/sports/college/old-dominion/article_b2f87312-8916-59f1-866b-3173901c0fc6.html

[jackwebster 111]

I love college wrestling. During the quarantine, my wife and I have been sitting around rewatching the last few NCAA tournaments and whatever duals are hanging out in our DVR.

That said, I really don't understand how sports align with the mission of higher ed. The US is the only place where this happens, and I wouldn't mind seeing a change. Couldn't USA wrestling and the RTC's serve the same function as the NCAA in organizing a folkstyle season? 

[Pinnum 796]

44 minutes ago, jackwebster said:

Couldn't USA wrestling and the RTC's serve the same function as the NCAA in organizing a folkstyle season? 

No.  And this is for the same exact reason women's sports in the United States are by far the best in the world.

College sports are HIGHLY subsidized.

We like to talk about football/basketball generating revenue to subsidize non-revenue sports but that really isn't the main source of income that subsidizes women's sports and college wrestling.  

The real source of funding comes from student fees--which could really just be called a tax on students getting an education that is used to fund coaches salaries and scholarships for athletes who might not even value the education they are getting. 

USA Wrestling could never come up with the HUGE somes of money that college wrestling gets through the schools.  The RTC funding we talk about at the top programs is a drop in the bucket compared to the funding put into college wrestling by schools around the country.  

[jackwebster 111]

13 minutes ago, Pinnum said:

No.  And this is for the same exact reason women's sports in the United States are by far the best in the world.

College sports are HIGHLY subsidized.

We like to talk about football/basketball generating revenue to subsidize non-revenue sports but that really isn't the main source of income that subsidizes women's sports and college wrestling.  

The real source of funding comes from student fees--which could really just be called a tax on students getting an education that is used to fund coaches salaries and scholarships for athletes who might not even value the education they are getting. 

USA Wrestling could never come up with the HUGE somes of money that college wrestling gets through the schools.  The RTC funding we talk about at the top programs is a drop in the bucket compared to the funding put into college wrestling by schools around the country.  

I'm sure you are right, now that I think about it. Because I was brainwashed by an Austrian economist in grad school, I can't see these fees and subsidies as anything other than theft. 

[fatlaz 16]

P5 schools that have big football (and to a lesser extent basketball) programs don't charge student fees that go towards supporting sports. So if we miss a football season, some B10 and other P5 schools might be in trouble. 

Edited April 4, 2020 by fatlaz
Hit enter early

[Cradle1 239]

On 4/3/2020 at 12:51 PM, JasonBryant said:

Been told by a former employee that Spartanburg Methodist, a junior college in South Carolina, will be dropping tennis and wrestling. MacMurray closed - the entire school - and with it men's and women's wrestling goes away too. 

Well you know what they say.... “as goes Spartanburg Methodist, so goes the entire country.”

[RichB 192]

Any University that claims to be the Flagship University of the State, that does not sponsor every sport the state HS association fully sponsors, is making an illegitimate claim. If you are serious about competing in a sport, and good (good is very easy to define in wrestling, having had a winning record), at age 17, you may not be done competing at 19. I suppose I could see see an exception for universities under 10,000 undergraduates, and under 100 majors. 

[BobDole 967]

On 4/3/2020 at 2:53 PM, BobDole said:

How long will it take the NCAA to drop the number of required sports for DI? 

Ooops..... looks like it took 11 days.

[JeanGuy 102]

Maybe schools start looking for the ice hockey waiver so D2/D3 could compete at the D1 level. 

[calot 199]

3 hours ago, BobDole said:

Ooops..... looks like it took 11 days.

Didn't take long.I had the same feeling you did.Hope it doesn't happen it would be a huge setback for wrestling

Edited April 15, 2020 by calot

[1032004 889]

15 hours ago, BobDole said:

Ooops..... looks like it took 11 days.

It hasn't actually happened has it?  Just the request?

[BobDole 967]

1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

It hasn't actually happened has it?  Just the request?

They are proposing it....

[ionel 1,343]

17 minutes ago, BobDole said:

They are proposing it....

Bob, Good to see you are still well.  If you can get out of the home and still have a DL with Russel county at zero cases you should be safe to drive down Fossil and thru Sonic, enjoy!  :)

[calot 199]

16 minutes ago, ionel said:

Bob, Good to see you are still well.  If you can get out of the home and still have a DL with Russel county at zero cases you should be safe to drive down Fossil and thru Sonic, enjoy!  :)

While he's at it he can help Willie(Huskerdu) start a program at Kansas St 

[BobDole 967]

17 minutes ago, calot said:

While he's at it he can help Willie(Huskerdu) start a program at Kansas St 

Willie is my guy, he's like my Robin.

[pamela 1,334]

On 4/4/2020 at 2:24 PM, fatlaz said:

P5 schools that have big football (and to a lesser extent basketball) programs don't charge student fees that go towards supporting sports. So if we miss a football season, some B10 and other P5 schools might be in trouble. 

???

[ionel 1,343]

On 4/4/2020 at 4:24 PM, fatlaz said:

P5 schools that have big football (and to a lesser extent basketball) programs don't charge student fees that go towards supporting sports.

Sure they do.  You might be able to find some that don't but for everyone of those easy to find one that does.