calot 190 Report post Posted April 4, 2020 10 hours ago, Pinnum said: The very real scenario here is that football is delayed a few weeks and the first three weeks of the season are cancelled. This is particularly significant because it would help salvage the budgets of the top programs as their conference games, championships, and bowls are the big events. But it would remove the non-conference games and be devastating for the non-P5 programs that rely on the non-conference to help balance their budgets. I will give one wrestling program example of how removing non-conference games and not playing the first three or four weeks of the season would have a significant impact on the budgets. Buffalo - Week 1: $900k from Kansas State - Week 3: $1.8 Million from Ohio State To put that into perspective, each school in the MAC gets around $700k a year for the TV deal for all their sports--including basketball and football--from ESPN. They would be better off financially cancelling their conference games and playing non-conference games. I chose Buffalo because they are pretty safe due to the recent elimination of their baseball, soccer, and swimming programs. So Buffalo is now at minimum number of sports to stay in D1. I didn't want to call out any programs which I think are most at risk. But there are many other programs that aren't as safe. And this isn't just the programs that are dependent on P5 football guarantee games. FCS programs will see the impact from G5 programs not being able to pay them what they are use to. And non-football schools will see their basketball guarantees start to dry up which will put their basketball budgets in free fall. And this all assumes that there isn't a significant drop in enrollment or student fees. The one saving grace may be that more people are likely to enroll in college in an economic crisis, so an increase in enrollment would provide more student fees to fund sports (thanks to cheap government backed student loans). Ncaa could drop the minimum number of sports it has been discussed in the past.Wouldnt shock me if this situation makes that happen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pinnum 796 Report post Posted April 4, 2020 9 minutes ago, calot said: Ncaa could drop the minimum number of sports it has been discussed in the past.Wouldnt shock me if this situation makes that happen Membership won’t approve it. It is a great way to ensure the P5 schools can keep their distance. And there are many lower budget schools like Davidson and Harvard that are committed to offering a lot of sports and wouldn’t support it. MAC, CUSA, and even the American would support reducing sports but it wouldn’t get wide support by the membership. The more likely scenario is that scholarship limits are reduced. There would be more schools in support of reducing scholarship limits, such as moving wrestling from 9.9 to 8.5 scholarships. Also, a reduction of coaching staffs would be a possible proposal the membership would support. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Plasmodium 1,589 Report post Posted April 4, 2020 Full disclosure: I am a cheap bass turd. Still, we spend wayyyy too much on college sports. All sports should have caps and be more in line with Adams State than Penn Sate. 3 silvermedal, Jim L and cjc007 reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
calot 190 Report post Posted April 4, 2020 18 minutes ago, Pinnum said: Membership won’t approve it. It is a great way to ensure the P5 schools can keep their distance. And there are many lower budget schools like Davidson and Harvard that are committed to offering a lot of sports and wouldn’t support it. MAC, CUSA, and even the American would support reducing sports but it wouldn’t get wide support by the membership. The more likely scenario is that scholarship limits are reduced. There would be more schools in support of reducing scholarship limits, such as moving wrestling from 9.9 to 8.5 scholarships. Also, a reduction of coaching staffs would be a possible proposal the membership would support. In normal times they won't vote that way but with the financial issues that could all change. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pinnum 796 Report post Posted April 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, calot said: In normal times they won't vote that way but with the financial issues that could all change. No, they won’t. It’s about the incentives. Very few schools are already down to the limit. So schools still can make cuts if they want. The only schools that would vote to reduce the number are the ones trying to drop below the current number. And the other schools don’t want to give those schools the ability to be able to compete with them. Charlotte sponsors nine men’s teams in CUSA while ODU only sponsors six. If Charlotte votes to allow ODU to stay D1 with five teams then they are voting for ODU to have a competitive advantage over them. Charlotte is better off with ODU having six sports and cutting funding for each of them. Or better yet leaving CUSA and dropping a level (though unlikely). What a school like Charlotte and ODU May agree on though is that many sports offer too many scholarships or coaches. If they vote for these limits they aren’t providing an advantage to their competition like you propose but putting their large budget competitors at a disadvantage. UVA, UNC, and Penn State might have money for a ton of scholarships and a ton of coaches but if they can’t give them to a lot of athletes and coaches then it doesn’t mean much. And with fewer scholarships to those other schools, those good athletes will start taking scholarships to Charlotte and ODU. Baseball did this a while back. They put reforms in place that impacted scholarships and roster sizes and it resulted in the most exciting national tournaments because mid majors are now landing great players and going toe to toe with the top programs. 1 MDogg reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ConnorsDad 570 Report post Posted April 4, 2020 Yes, the ODU thing has been in the works for awhile. But also, while droppi g wrestling they are adding eomens volleyball! Sad day! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cjc007 648 Report post Posted April 4, 2020 Keep in mind the ODU program was not even "on the ropes".[/quote Delete Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
calot 190 Report post Posted April 4, 2020 8 hours ago, Pinnum said: No, they won’t. It’s about the incentives. Very few schools are already down to the limit. So schools still can make cuts if they want. The only schools that would vote to reduce the number are the ones trying to drop below the current number. And the other schools don’t want to give those schools the ability to be able to compete with them. Charlotte sponsors nine men’s teams in CUSA while ODU only sponsors six. If Charlotte votes to allow ODU to stay D1 with five teams then they are voting for ODU to have a competitive advantage over them. Charlotte is better off with ODU having six sports and cutting funding for each of them. Or better yet leaving CUSA and dropping a level (though unlikely). What a school like Charlotte and ODU May agree on though is that many sports offer too many scholarships or coaches. If they vote for these limits they aren’t providing an advantage to their competition like you propose but putting their large budget competitors at a disadvantage. UVA, UNC, and Penn State might have money for a ton of scholarships and a ton of coaches but if they can’t give them to a lot of athletes and coaches then it doesn’t mean much. And with fewer scholarships to those other schools, those good athletes will start taking scholarships to Charlotte and ODU. Baseball did this a while back. They put reforms in place that impacted scholarships and roster sizes and it resulted in the most exciting national tournaments because mid majors are now landing great players and going toe to toe with the top programs. We all have opinions and mine is that dropping down 2 sports is a real possibility.Yours is that it won't happen.We can agree to disagree and time will tell. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Plasmodium 1,589 Report post Posted April 4, 2020 Here is an informative article of ODU and college sports in general. https://www.pilotonline.com/sports/college/old-dominion/article_b2f87312-8916-59f1-866b-3173901c0fc6.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jackwebster 110 Report post Posted April 4, 2020 I love college wrestling. During the quarantine, my wife and I have been sitting around rewatching the last few NCAA tournaments and whatever duals are hanging out in our DVR. That said, I really don't understand how sports align with the mission of higher ed. The US is the only place where this happens, and I wouldn't mind seeing a change. Couldn't USA wrestling and the RTC's serve the same function as the NCAA in organizing a folkstyle season? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pinnum 796 Report post Posted April 4, 2020 44 minutes ago, jackwebster said: Couldn't USA wrestling and the RTC's serve the same function as the NCAA in organizing a folkstyle season? No. And this is for the same exact reason women's sports in the United States are by far the best in the world. College sports are HIGHLY subsidized. We like to talk about football/basketball generating revenue to subsidize non-revenue sports but that really isn't the main source of income that subsidizes women's sports and college wrestling. The real source of funding comes from student fees--which could really just be called a tax on students getting an education that is used to fund coaches salaries and scholarships for athletes who might not even value the education they are getting. USA Wrestling could never come up with the HUGE somes of money that college wrestling gets through the schools. The RTC funding we talk about at the top programs is a drop in the bucket compared to the funding put into college wrestling by schools around the country. 1 1 jackwebster and Tofurky reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jackwebster 110 Report post Posted April 4, 2020 13 minutes ago, Pinnum said: No. And this is for the same exact reason women's sports in the United States are by far the best in the world. College sports are HIGHLY subsidized. We like to talk about football/basketball generating revenue to subsidize non-revenue sports but that really isn't the main source of income that subsidizes women's sports and college wrestling. The real source of funding comes from student fees--which could really just be called a tax on students getting an education that is used to fund coaches salaries and scholarships for athletes who might not even value the education they are getting. USA Wrestling could never come up with the HUGE somes of money that college wrestling gets through the schools. The RTC funding we talk about at the top programs is a drop in the bucket compared to the funding put into college wrestling by schools around the country. I'm sure you are right, now that I think about it. Because I was brainwashed by an Austrian economist in grad school, I can't see these fees and subsidies as anything other than theft. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fatlaz 13 Report post Posted April 4, 2020 (edited) P5 schools that have big football (and to a lesser extent basketball) programs don't charge student fees that go towards supporting sports. So if we miss a football season, some B10 and other P5 schools might be in trouble. Edited April 4, 2020 by fatlaz Hit enter early 1 cjc007 reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cradle1 239 Report post Posted April 5, 2020 On 4/3/2020 at 12:51 PM, JasonBryant said: Been told by a former employee that Spartanburg Methodist, a junior college in South Carolina, will be dropping tennis and wrestling. MacMurray closed - the entire school - and with it men's and women's wrestling goes away too. Well you know what they say.... “as goes Spartanburg Methodist, so goes the entire country.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RichB 191 Report post Posted April 5, 2020 Any University that claims to be the Flagship University of the State, that does not sponsor every sport the state HS association fully sponsors, is making an illegitimate claim. If you are serious about competing in a sport, and good (good is very easy to define in wrestling, having had a winning record), at age 17, you may not be done competing at 19. I suppose I could see see an exception for universities under 10,000 undergraduates, and under 100 majors. 1 pamela reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobDole 967 Report post Posted April 14, 2020 On 4/3/2020 at 2:53 PM, BobDole said: How long will it take the NCAA to drop the number of required sports for DI? Ooops..... looks like it took 11 days. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JeanGuy 102 Report post Posted April 14, 2020 Maybe schools start looking for the ice hockey waiver so D2/D3 could compete at the D1 level. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
calot 190 Report post Posted April 15, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, BobDole said: Ooops..... looks like it took 11 days. Didn't take long.I had the same feeling you did.Hope it doesn't happen it would be a huge setback for wrestling Edited April 15, 2020 by calot Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1032004 869 Report post Posted April 15, 2020 15 hours ago, BobDole said: Ooops..... looks like it took 11 days. It hasn't actually happened has it? Just the request? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobDole 967 Report post Posted April 15, 2020 1 hour ago, 1032004 said: It hasn't actually happened has it? Just the request? They are proposing it.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ionel 1,314 Report post Posted April 15, 2020 17 minutes ago, BobDole said: They are proposing it.... Bob, Good to see you are still well. If you can get out of the home and still have a DL with Russel county at zero cases you should be safe to drive down Fossil and thru Sonic, enjoy! :) 1 BobDole reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
calot 190 Report post Posted April 15, 2020 16 minutes ago, ionel said: Bob, Good to see you are still well. If you can get out of the home and still have a DL with Russel county at zero cases you should be safe to drive down Fossil and thru Sonic, enjoy! :) While he's at it he can help Willie(Huskerdu) start a program at Kansas St Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobDole 967 Report post Posted April 15, 2020 17 minutes ago, calot said: While he's at it he can help Willie(Huskerdu) start a program at Kansas St Willie is my guy, he's like my Robin. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pamela 1,334 Report post Posted April 15, 2020 On 4/4/2020 at 2:24 PM, fatlaz said: P5 schools that have big football (and to a lesser extent basketball) programs don't charge student fees that go towards supporting sports. So if we miss a football season, some B10 and other P5 schools might be in trouble. ??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ionel 1,314 Report post Posted April 15, 2020 On 4/4/2020 at 4:24 PM, fatlaz said: P5 schools that have big football (and to a lesser extent basketball) programs don't charge student fees that go towards supporting sports. Sure they do. You might be able to find some that don't but for everyone of those easy to find one that does. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites