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fadzaev2

Greatest wrestlers by areas of technique.

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11 hours ago, fadzaev2 said:

I like best counter wrestler as a category, and Randy Lewis is a good answer,  but Randy was pretty much pre-low single leg, which adds a whole new dimension to counter wrestling, and Randy's stance was straight up and down....

Randy was a great wrestler IN SPITE OF his technique, in other words :D I'd definitely agree, if that's what you are saying.

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1 hour ago, TobusRex said:

Randy was a great wrestler IN SPITE OF his technique, in other words :D I'd definitely agree, if that's what you are saying.

I don't know that he had bad technque....it certainly worked for him and no one was more exciting, but with the low single leg entering the "arena", I think he would have had to make some changes.  He's a GOAT, and that's not going to change.

Edited by fadzaev2

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13 hours ago, fadzaev2 said:

I like best counter wrestler as a category, and Randy Lewis is a good answer,  but Randy was pretty much pre-low single leg, which adds a whole new dimension to counter wrestling, and Randy's stance was straight up and down....

And no one ever scored on his Impossible Leg!

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2 hours ago, jchapman said:

And no one ever scored on his Impossible Leg!

At the end of his career John Smith got in on his leg(s) a few times.....but you're talking about two of the greatest Americans of all-time, and they were at 2 different points of their careers as well.

Edited by fadzaev2

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You can really only compare takedowns to people in your own weight class as little guys are going to have more and seem better. Nobody dominated their weight class on the feet more than Cael and John Smith. Another great one I saw was TJ Jaworsky. Put Taylor, Snyder and Gray Simons in there also.

Mat wrestlers I have seen include Gable, Sheets and even Darmstadt. Got to go. Maids are here!

Edited by ConnorsDad

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39 minutes ago, shieldofpistis said:

Snyder wins the best takedowns against guys who outweigh you by a lot. 

And are much less slower and although some very strong, not all by any means.  There are many more in terms of depth between the 141-157 weight classes, because that’s the average size of men that age, now you have 3-4 times the amount of wrestlers in your weight that are fast, strong, and just as skilled.  That doesn’t happen at heavyweight, just sayin’

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1 hour ago, Schuteandscore said:

And are much less slower and although some very strong, not all by any means.  There are many more in terms of depth between the 141-157 weight classes, because that’s the average size of men that age, now you have 3-4 times the amount of wrestlers in your weight that are fast, strong, and just as skilled.  That doesn’t happen at heavyweight, just sayin’

No. Snyder's a takedown artist.  Heavyweight is unforgiving.  Measure the amount of times she shot by the amount of times his shot was countered for points.  Not many times.  There is a really there isn't a lot of shooting at heavyweight. 

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21 minutes ago, shieldofpistis said:

No. Snyder's a takedown artist.  Heavyweight is unforgiving.  Measure the amount of times she shot by the amount of times his shot was countered for points.  Not many times.  There is a really there isn't a lot of shooting at heavyweight. 

Kind of my point... if you have a good shot it works, where as at the middle/lower weights you can have 2-3 good shots and the 4th “good” shot works.

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30 minutes ago, shieldofpistis said:

No. Snyder's a takedown artist.  Heavyweight is unforgiving.  Measure the amount of times she shot by the amount of times his shot was countered for points.  Not many times.  There is a really there isn't a lot of shooting at heavyweight. 

Several times against Gwiz.

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On 4/8/2020 at 10:36 AM, BadgerMon said:

Top 5 greatest take-down wrestlers of all-time:

Nate Carr  ( see my 28-11 match with him)

Joe Gonzales

Brands Brothers

Barry Davis

Kyle Snyder

David Taylor

My list, feel free to pick apart!

ahh ... might want to take a look at this:

 

 

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1 hour ago, headache said:

I don't think anyone could get a takedown as quick and easy as Cael. 

I think Smith and Burroughs are among the greatest NCAA wrestlers from neutral, ever.

While they were still in college, they proved that no one in the world could stop them.

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Since I started this thread, I'll throw my "guys" in now.....lot's of guys could make these lists...here's a few of mine

Top 5 greatest takedown wrestlers of all-time:

JIMMY HAINES/WISCONSIN.....no one mentioned him ....was best his senior year.....I have an article in my office on Jimmy....was called "the Takedown Machine" his senior year...had something like 235 takedowns in 35 matches.  Never went to his knees...NCAA Champion 1977 beat a great Mike McArthur in the finals.

Joe Gonzales....one of the "gold dust twins/Azevedo the other......In the 1978-79 season for the Roadrunners, Gonzales ran off an amazing 55-0 record at 118 pounds, winning both the NCAA Div. II National Championships and the NCAA Div. I National Championships. He had an amazing 448 takedowns during that season.

John Smith....another takedown machine

 

Top 5 greatest mat wrestlers of all-time:

Gene Mills

Logan Steiber

Dan Gable

Tim Krieger

 

Top 5 greatest leg wrestlers of all-time:

 

Mike Sheets

Mark Churella (4 time all american, 3 time NCAA Champion, pinned two of his three finalist victims....had scores of 1977.....7:34, 34-4, 11-3, 9-7 over a 3 time AA Paul Martin, 9-3  , 1978 2:49, 25-2, 14-9, 13-10 over Dave Schultz, pinned Marty Kistler 3:09....the next year Kistler pinned his way thru the BIG and NCAA Tournaments....maybe 10 pins. And in 1979, moving up 2 wts. to 167 Churella reeled off matches of 14-8, 1:49, 5:33, 8-6, fall in the finals over 4 time AA Mike DeAnna 3:10.

Troy and Terry Steiner

David Lee     a protege of Dave Schultz

Dave Schultz who became brutal with legs as time went on

 

Top 5 wrestlers with the most grit/mental toughness/heart/relentlessness, in your face:

Gable

McIlravy

The Brands

Retherford

Nolf

 

And here's one that's pretty specific, but one I like to throw out there.....

Top 5 guys with a fireman's carry:

Dan Hicks Oregon State 2 time NCAA  Champion

Ricky Stewart

Mark Churella

DiSanto.....(near arm opposite leg)

 

Upper Body

Mark Schultz

Ed Banach

Randy Lewis

Darryl Burley (when he was wrestling Randy Lewis....fun matches, as was the Schultz Banach Match)

 

Misc.

As I wrote Schultz Banach above it reminded me of some matches between another stud.....Mike Mann (ISU) and Ed Banach....two studs....great matches to watch.  You hardly ever see the name Mike Mann brought up....he was TOUGH TOO.

 

 

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 Fadzaev quote-JIMMY HAINES/WISCONSIN.....no one mentioned him ....was best his senior year.....I have an article in my office on Jimmy....was called "the Takedown Machine" his senior year...had something like 235 takedowns in 35 matches.  Never went to his knees...NCAA Champion 1977 beat a great Mike McArthur in the finals.

I was actually thinking of Haines when I saw your post (don't know why I didn't mention him with Simons). I think it was in the quarters that Jimmy was rallying from a deficit; he tied the score 11-11 with 11 sec remaining in the match, and then cut him, and then he scored a TD with 5 sec remaining to win 13-12. He then went on to win the championship.

Edited by fullnelson

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2 hours ago, fullnelson said:

 Fadzaev quote-JIMMY HAINES/WISCONSIN.....no one mentioned him ....was best his senior year.....I have an article in my office on Jimmy....was called "the Takedown Machine" his senior year...had something like 235 takedowns in 35 matches.  Never went to his knees...NCAA Champion 1977 beat a great Mike McArthur in the finals.

I was actually thinking of Haines when I saw your post (don't know why I didn't mention him with Simons). I think it was in the quarters that Jimmy was rallying from a deficit; he tied the score 11-11 with 11 sec remaining in the match, and then cut him, and then he scored a TD with 5 sec remaining to win 13-12. He then went on to win the championship.

It was vs. Johnnie Jones (Zeke's brother)....final score 11-9....great match....in the finals he beat Mike McArthure 8-7, who he had lost to in the Big Ten Finals, 4-0.  Haines won the World Cup in Toledo one year too

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