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Perry

Greatest NCAA Wrestler in Last 5 Years

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1. J'Den Cox

2. Kyle Snyder

3. Logan Stieber 

4. Zain Retherford

5. Jason Nolf

6. Zahid Valencia

7. Bo Nickal

8. Alex Dieringer

9. Spencer Lee

10. Vincenzo Joseph

HM. iMar, Gwiz, Hall

 

Thoughts?

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2 hours ago, Perry said:

1. J'Den Cox

2. Kyle Snyder

3. Logan Stieber 

4. Zain Retherford

5. Jason Nolf

6. Zahid Valencia

7. Bo Nickal

8. Alex Dieringer

9. Spencer Lee

10. Vincenzo Joseph

HM. iMar, Gwiz, Hall

 

Thoughts?

I like everything except Zahid ahead of Nickal and Dieringer

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Why would a 1-5-1-1 with a loss to someone else on the list be number 1?  There is 3 guys who went 2-1-1-1, 2 of the 3 with less losses and 2 of them having much higher bonus rate. Not to mention there is a 4 time champ.

If looking at college only Stieber, Nickal and Nolf are 1, 2 and 3 in some order on my list.  
 

Valencia is only a 2 timer who was kicked off his own team, so I don’t think I would include him in a top 10 list.

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4 hours ago, Mokoma said:

Why would a 1-5-1-1 with a loss to someone else on the list be number 1?  There is 3 guys who went 2-1-1-1, 2 of the 3 with less losses and 2 of them having much higher bonus rate. Not to mention there is a 4 time champ.

If looking at college only Stieber, Nickal and Nolf are 1, 2 and 3 in some order on my list.  
 

Valencia is only a 2 timer who was kicked off his own team, so I don’t think I would include him in a top 10 list.

Cox at 1 was honestly meant to start conversation more than anything, I do agree snyder should be at 2. I would still put cox over Logan not bc of ncaa resumes but because of how good he really was while in college. He was an olympic and world champion and never red shirted. Snyder being a 2x world champ before graduating is also something I think should weigh in so i would realistically swap those 2.

 

For zahid, he did have I believe 2 wins over nickal in freestyle so I gave him a slight nod. I won't hold his cocaine habit against him, he couldn't have won a title this year regardless. I do think dieringer has proven how good he is now on the sr circuit but I also think he has improved tremendously since graduating while zahid is just wrapping up his collegiate career now and is already on par with dieringer at minimum

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3 hours ago, Perry said:

Cox at 1 was honestly meant to start conversation more than anything, I do agree snyder should be at 2. I would still put cox over Logan not bc of ncaa resumes but because of how good he really was while in college. He was an olympic and world champion and never red shirted. Snyder being a 2x world champ before graduating is also something I think should weigh in so i would realistically swap those 2.

 

For zahid, he did have I believe 2 wins over nickal in freestyle so I gave him a slight nod. I won't hold his cocaine habit against him, he couldn't have won a title this year regardless. I do think dieringer has proven how good he is now on the sr circuit but I also think he has improved tremendously since graduating while zahid is just wrapping up his collegiate career now and is already on par with dieringer at minimum

How do you factor Zahid's freestyle wins in your ranking, but discount his suspension from ASU by his own school? That IMHO, makes him less than great. And IMAR was under ranked as previously acknowledged. Yes, Stieber has those 4 titles, but one would not have happened had the replay rules changed one year earlier. Also, I think Cenzo is ranked too high considering the number of losses he had outside the NCAA Tourney. That said, nice job on the list.

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7 hours ago, Perry said:

Cox at 1 was honestly meant to start conversation more than anything, I do agree snyder should be at 2. I would still put cox over Logan not bc of ncaa resumes but because of how good he really was while in college. He was an olympic and world champion and never red shirted. Snyder being a 2x world champ before graduating is also something I think should weigh in so i would realistically swap those 2.

 

For zahid, he did have I believe 2 wins over nickal in freestyle so I gave him a slight nod. I won't hold his cocaine habit against him, he couldn't have won a title this year regardless. I do think dieringer has proven how good he is now on the sr circuit but I also think he has improved tremendously since graduating while zahid is just wrapping up his collegiate career now and is already on par with dieringer at minimum

Why would freestyle count for this?  If it does Nickal’s 3 college titles plus the U23 World Title should easily place him 4th behind Snyder, Cox and Stieber.  If it’s college results only Nickal is probably number 1.

 

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3 hours ago, Plasmodium said:

Why would give Zahid demerits for a suspension you don't know the details of?

 

The details are it was enough that his own school chose to sit him. By their stated policy it would have been at least his third offense. He let his team and school down. That's not great in my opinion.

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1 hour ago, HokieHWT said:

Not sure how you can have Joseph on there but not have Lewis. It wasn’t a fluke that Lewis beat him, or the other guys seeded above him.

It would be a little premature don't you think? He is 28-2 in his career with losses to Conner Flynn and Isiah White. That's not all time great yet.

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22 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

lemme throw this out there

Zahid, if we're all be honest with ourselves - was Headgear Pull-1-1-1

let that sink in.

i'm not advocating for him higher. i'm just saying - put that in your pipe. 

Huh?  Zahid does not have 3 titles.  And he got 3rd fair and square as a freshman.  

He was great no doubt when competing but if you’re a 2 time champ and get kicked off your own college team you are not worthy of top 10 NCAA wrestlers in past 5 years.

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15 minutes ago, 82bordeaux said:

It would be a little premature don't you think? He is 28-2 in his career with losses to Conner Flynn and Isiah White. That's not all time great yet.

Except he beat the number 9 decisively. When he’s done he’ll be #2-3 best all time.

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John 6, Bruce and JB both have 5.  I think ya gotta get 5 to get in that conversation.  There are a few more guys that can get into the 4 club.  J'Den, Dake, Taylor, Snyder, who knows maybe a Fix or a Lee or Yianni bag a few.  Top 2-3 passes Kemp, Monday, Schults' and Gable.  I gotta see this, but it's not out of the realm of possibility.  I'd take the under, and I'm pulling for him.

 

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Some of the responses have mixed in non-NCAA results.  Going with that, the best wrestlers on the list by far are Snyder and then Cox.  Both three NCAAs with no redshirt, both multiple time world champs and Olympic medalists.

Greatest NCAA wrestler -- I think that has to be Stieber (assuming that you consider 2015 to be in the last 5 years).  He won 4 NCAA titles and 4 Big Ten titles.  He beat Oliver, Ramos, and Retherford in his NCAAs.  (I think Oliver got a bad call and was never much of a Stieber fan, but that's the call that was made, Stieber's hand was raised -- and he did wrestle a superb match that day, reversing an absolute stomping from the regular season.)  And to those who say that freestyle actually happened so you can't ignore it, he did win a senior level world title.  Stieber was absolutely feared in college, somewhat like Spencer Lee before Spencer Lee -- incredibly strong, viciously brutal arm bars on top, terrific on his feet, guys basically just tried to survive him.  

Speaking of a guy who opponents just tried to survive, I'd put Zain 2nd.  Zain won 2 and arguably should have won 3 Hodges, winning his last 95 matches.  Like Stieber, he was scary on top, and very solid on his feet.  His one year without a championship was a true freshman season in which he won a very memorable match over Stieber.  

After that, very hard to parse it out between Snyder, Cox, Dieringer, Nolf, Nickal.  Snyder would be second if he hadn't wrestled two very abbreviated seasons.  I'm inclined to put him third based on beating Gwiz in an all-time match, winning his second title with a tough rib injury, and then beating a really good, 60 pounds heavier Coon.  

After that I have no idea.  How about Nolf (because I really liked him, he's so athletic, and he wrestled a terrific match against IMar in his one NCAA loss); then Nickal (big move guy who beat the great Gabe Dean in a conventional match then won the team title the next year with an incredible pin); then Cox (better wrestler than all of them but awfully conservative in college); then Dieringer (thisclose to winning 4, dominant his last 2.5 years). 

 

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Logan Stieber didn't wrestle in the NCAA in the last five years.
 
Also, if freestyle matters, Snyder is #1 and it's not close. World Champ and Olympic Champ while in college.
Why wouldn't freestyle count?

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

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Just now, Perry said:

Zain over 4 time stieber who owns the series?

I think Zain was a far better wrestler than Steiber by the time Zain graduated. Consider that RSJr Steiber lost 1 match out of 3 to true freshman Zain, and ground out victories in his two wins. By the time he was a Sr I think Zain might've majored Sr Steiber, and that's saying something (because of ow tough Steiber was)

Yeah, as far as absolute numbers, 4 NCs beats 3, but I'm not so sure Steiber earned all those titles either.  Plus technically Steiber graduated more than 5 years ago (per thread title), didn't he?

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