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CoachJSS

College Wrestling could be a thing of the pass...

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A very sobering article from Sports Illustrated....

 

https://www.si.com/college/2020/04/08/college-football-future-2020-ncaa-coronavirus


This part stood out to me!

“A total or partial loss of the sport could send some athletic departments so deep into the red that one administrator predicted even Power 5 football programs shuttering. But the absence of football is only one piece. The long-term and severe financial impacts from an economic recession could not only reform forever how departments operate but also could spell sweeping changes to the landscape of college athletics—from the formation of a super division to a new wave of conference realignment, from money-saving travel modifications to football scheduling alterations, from discontinued sports to thousands of lost jobs.“

I could see a few Olympic sports being “discontinued sports” that many athletic departments wouldn’t feel obligated to sponsor. 
 

I have read a few articles were health Officials were saying that there was no way football would take place, pro or college.

No college football could spell the end of many Olympic sports at the D I collegiate level.

Edited by CoachJSS

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It would be strange to see in the future, the weaker programs out there (usually private schools) who don't rely on big sport money becoming the power programs in wrestling.

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Thank you for sharing.  I have never thought about or looked into this question... what motivates schools to run non profitable sports to begin with?  At the end of the day, money matters.  

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1 hour ago, jross said:

Thank you for sharing.  I have never thought about or looked into this question... what motivates schools to run non profitable sports to begin with?  At the end of the day, money matters.  

NAIA and D3 where there are no scholarships its stupid not to have wrestling(or any other sport for that matter). If you have 30 kids on the wrestling team that's 30 kids paying tuition to that college that might only be going to that school to wrestle.

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28 minutes ago, mob said:

NAIA and D3 where there are no scholarships its stupid not to have wrestling(or any other sport for that matter). If you have 30 kids on the wrestling team that's 30 kids paying tuition to that college that might only be going to that school to wrestle.

Unless that changed in the last two years, NAIA absolutely does offer wrestling scholarships, but is capped at eight.

NJCAA Division III schools do NOT offer scholarships, as that is how the individual school's athletics departments chooses to be classified.

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Does this open the door for wrestling clubs tied to institutions of higher learning to begin growing financially?

Personally, I'd much rather see the U.S. move away from American Folk and embrace the Olympic styles. Maybe this is when that begins to happen.

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29 minutes ago, Tofurky said:

Does this open the door for wrestling clubs tied to institutions of higher learning to begin growing financially?

Personally, I'd much rather see the U.S. move away from American Folk and embrace the Olympic styles. Maybe this is when that begins to happen.

No. Why would institutions of higher learning want to ge associated/connected/tied to wrestling clubs?  They already have enough headaches & issues with DIAs etc they really aren't looking for new problems. 

Edited by ionel

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4 minutes ago, ionel said:

No. Why would institutions of higher learning want to ge associated/connected/tied to wrestling clubs?  They already have enough headaches & issues with DIAs etc they really aren't looking for new problems. 

Not what I meant, sir. I was thinking of people choosing to financially support the NLWC or Wildcat, Hawkeye or Illini, as examples.

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3 minutes ago, Tofurky said:

Not what I meant, sir. I was thinking of people choosing to financially support the NLWC or Wildcat, Hawkeye or Illini, as examples.

See above, you said "tied" to ihl.  

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8 minutes ago, ionel said:

See above, you said "tied" to ihl.  

Of which all of those are, as being outgrowths of the college teams they support. Without the college teams, which are 100% parts of the universities, the clubs I mentioned probably do not exist, regardless if they are financially independent of IHLs.

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3 minutes ago, Tofurky said:

Of which all of those are, as being outgrowths of the college teams they support. Without the college teams, which are 100% parts of the universities, the clubs I mentioned probably do not exist, regardless if they are financially independent of IHLs.

They really only exist because if the college wrestling program, take that away and the universities will not have a connection and will use the space/facilities for something else. 

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Just now, ionel said:

They really only exist because if the college wrestling program, take that away and the universities will not have a connection and will use the space/facilities for something else. 

Absolutely true and why I am wondering if wrestling, among nearly a dozen other non-revenue collegiate sports, becomes a club sport and is supported by alumni. I see a lot of pros and cons to it.

That said, I wonder if it's time for USSW starting to lobby the NCAA wrestling rules committee to start making necessary rule changes to embrace the Olympic styles? If the United States (read as money) had Free and Greco from kids through college, I wonder if the IOC would change their tunes about the reduced number of weight classes, as more fans would understand the sport and watch/support it?

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1 hour ago, mob said:

NAIA and D3 where there are no scholarships its stupid not to have wrestling(or any other sport for that matter). If you have 30 kids on the wrestling team that's 30 kids paying tuition to that college that might only be going to that school to wrestle.

I played baseball at an NAIA school.  I received a scholarship that covered about 50% of costs.  That school now charges $28K annually and pays its head coach around $50K.  Lets say there were 20 athletes on the team.  $28K annual * 50% scholarship discount * 20 athletes = $280K.  $280K - 50K coach - ?K for two assistant coaches - ? travel - ? expenses... I wonder how profitable it really is?  The football team had 80 athletes and the math makes more sense.    There were only 500 kids at the school and most were athletes... so I get that sports brings in athletes and revenue.  There are also expenses for the facilities, teachers, etc.

Edited by jross
fixed math and made it more clear.

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5 minutes ago, jross said:

I played baseball at an NAIA school.  I received a scholarship that covered about 50% of costs.  That school now charges $28K annually and pays its head coach around $50K.  Lets say there were 20 athletes on the team.  $14K * 20 = $140K.  $140K - 50K coach - ?K for two assistance coaches - ? travel - ? expenses... I wonder how profitable it really is?  The football team had 80 athletes and the math makes more sense.    There were only 500 kids at the school and most were athletes... so I get that sports brings in athletes and revenue.  There are also expenses for the facilities, teachers, etc.

Why 14K and not 28K?  Also, 14K *20 is 280K.

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When a D1 school (any school) is $1million in the black to run a men's sporting team, what causes them to keep the sport?  Why did colleges originally sponsor money draining sports and why do they continue to do it?  A capitalist society doesn't do that unless there is something positive in it for them or unless the government oversteps and orders it.  I understand title 9 and gender equality.  I don't understand why the only sport offered for men hasn't already been cut down to football and basketball...  I don't like the idea.  But where is the school incentive?  

Related... is wrestling fandom relatively small because it is not well-marketed or is it not well-marketed because it is not fun for outsiders to watch?  What is the difference in entertainment between a 1.1 wrestling match and a 1.1 professional boxing match?  Very few people have ever wrestled or boxed.  Is it the amount of blood spilled?  Is it not popular because it's too damn tough for the average human to participate in versus basketball?  My young son immediately liked basketball.  In wrestling, he sometimes thinks he is in a fight and someone is going to get hurt.  Wrestling is a tough sport for the average fan to have tried and enjoyed... and relate to.  For those of us that have done it... we love it.

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Wait till the NCAA lowers the requirement for number of sports to be considered D I. Right now it’s 6 if you offer 8 female sports.

lets say the power 5 Schools threatens to leave the NCAA unless they Switch it to 5 male sports, then it’s a done deal. You will see wrestling, swimming, and track gone quickly.

schools will carry football, basketball, and probably baseball for sure. That leaves 2 spots open. You want them to be low roster numbers so Golf and tennis look like attractive options.

I hope this doesn’t happen, but next summer I wouldn’t be surprised to see only 45 D I schools with wrestling

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Wrestling could have all the love and money in the world. Won't help. No other NCAA sport comes as close as wrestling to being lethally connected to the Corona Virus. You can't devise a worse situation as two strangers literally breathing down each other's throat.

Edited by Cooch1
more info

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50 minutes ago, Cooch1 said:

Wrestling could have all the love and money in the world. Won't help. No other NCAA sport comes as close as wrestling to being lethally connected to the Corona Virus. You can't devise a worse situation as two strangers literally breathing down each other's throat.

I agree.  I would like to believe that given wrestling survived the 1957 pandemic (116K US deaths, 1.1M World deaths) and the 1918 pandemic (675K US deaths, 50M World deaths), that it will survive this current one (15K US deaths so far, up to 240K US death predicted).  Of the US covid19 deaths so far, people aged 24 and younger make up 0.1% of the deaths [5 deaths < 24yrs / 4065 deaths total at one point].  So the wrestlers themselves are not at much risk here and it remains low for the coaching age. 

I was pretty dense about this problem and my wife directed me to stay safe at home for what feels like a month now.  I have left once.  Meanwhile the neighbor teenagers have had a bonfire for I don't know how many days in a row.  They are not going to die from this but they are part of the problem giving it to everyone else.  My bad take is that cancelling wrestling because of health risk is an excuse to leverage fear to cut costs.  

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1 hour ago, Cooch1 said:

Wrestling could have all the love and money in the world. Won't help. No other NCAA sport comes as close as wrestling to being lethally connected to the Corona Virus. You can't devise a worse situation as two strangers literally breathing down each other's throat.

Well in regards to the OP, how about 100k people in a football stadium?

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13 hours ago, Cooch1 said:

Wrestling could have all the love and money in the world. Won't help. No other NCAA sport comes as close as wrestling to being lethally connected to the Corona Virus. You can't devise a worse situation as two strangers literally breathing down each other's throat.

I disagree. Wrestling is 1 on 1 and a full wrestling meet, counting warm up partners, coaches, refs, timers, etc requires less than 50 people and you could cut that to less than 30 if you didn't have extra warm up partners, limited on mat coaches, and didn't need an announcer on site. This pandemic is about numbers as much as it is about contact which is why banning large groups was the first step taken in pretty much every jurisdiction around the world. Football, which involves several hundred people even if you banned spectators, is much more what people are thinking about when it comes to Covid. 

There's no way to get a football game below 100 people on the field and 100 people breathing down each other's throats is a lot worse than 10 sets of 2. 

 

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