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CoachJSS

College Wrestling could be a thing of the pass...

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Only 8 of the 25 most profitable football programs have a wrestling program so the profitability to wrestling linkage is limited at best. 

My guess is 75% of all wrestling school lose money on football.  Of course, most would rather lose millions on football than lose thousands on wrestling.  

Pass?  

Edited by TFBJR

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1 hour ago, KSchlosser said:

If a state high school athletic association sponsors a sport then a state college in that state should also sponsor that sport. 

I would say the state flagship, university or universities,  I can imagine a much smaller state college of 1500-2000 would have  problem fielding 22 sports, Although F+M, a private school with about 2200 students has 26+ sports (although not all PIAA sports, Like Lehigh and Bucknell, F+M does not have men's volleyball or competitive cheer, but the latter is not an NCAA sport. But if a public school has the name of "name of state"+University+maybe "state" or "Tech"  . if the name includes a town, like Bloomsburg, or a region like Northern, it is not a flagship, and might get a pass. But they should try to have all.

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Dr Faucci said maybe we should make handshaking a thing of the past. Obviously that could kill wrestling, But maybe full tackle football also, since"half" the plays end up with a pile of bodies that takes 5-15 seconds to untangle. Other contact sports, Bktball, Baseball, Sofball, Soccer, Lacrosse Hockey are more of collision sports, you hit and bounce off,=== I wonder about water polo. lots of close contact, but it is chlorinated water, and if you breath towards someone, you breath  can;t travel far before hitting the water

 

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On 4/9/2020 at 3:25 PM, jross said:

Thank you for sharing.  I have never thought about or looked into this question... what motivates schools to run non profitable sports to begin with?  At the end of the day, money matters.  

True, but isn't it also true that relatively few schools actually make money from football? I've seen stats here before and  could google it, but does anyone have the actual numbers ready-to-hand?

My impression was that AD's fantasize about making money off b-ball and f-ball, but actually only the ncaa is making money.

 

***Edit: ugghh, somebody already asked this question. My bad. Still would like the rxaxt numbers snd citation 

Edited by jackwebster

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1 hour ago, PSUSMC said:

Nice play on words CoachJSS - "...thing of the pass" because of football (the money machine - whether in the red or black for the universities).

At least someody noticed ....haha

I think this is a crucial moment for D I wrestling and its survival. I think D II and D III will be ok, and NAIA and JUCO will be fine.

Just not sure what's going to happen with D I.

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If football/basketball can't bring money in, where do other sports get it? The world is going into a reset of sanitation and housecleaning. About all you'll get is the basics; food, shelter and mail-order clothing. This is WWIII.

First things first. Hope for a cure,  mass-produce it; hope it lasts; hope there's no mutation-and-repeat.

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11 hours ago, ThatLogSchuteWasCarrying said:

I disagree. Wrestling is 1 on 1 and a full wrestling meet, counting warm up partners, coaches, refs, timers, etc requires less than 50 people and you could cut that to less than 30 if you didn't have extra warm up partners, limited on mat coaches, and didn't need an announcer on site. This pandemic is about numbers as much as it is about contact which is why banning large groups was the first step taken in pretty much every jurisdiction around the world. Football, which involves several hundred people even if you banned spectators, is much more what people are thinking about when it comes to Covid. 

There's no way to get a football game below 100 people on the field and 100 people breathing down each other's throats is a lot worse than 10 sets of 2. 

 

They can easily wear masks, hypothetically

Edited by Cooch1
more info

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On 4/9/2020 at 3:24 PM, Tofurky said:

Unless that changed in the last two years, NAIA absolutely does offer wrestling scholarships, but is capped at eight.

NJCAA Division III schools do NOT offer scholarships, as that is how the individual school's athletics departments chooses to be classified.

My mistake. I thought NAIA was no scholarships 

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NAIA scholarships are complicated. There is a limit to the number of scholarship equivalents that can compete in a given season, but scholarships to athletes who don't compete are not counted against the limit. Also, students who meet certain academic standards can have their scholarships also not count against the limit.

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Unless that changed in the last two years, NAIA absolutely does offer wrestling scholarships, but is capped at eight.
NJCAA Division III schools do NOT offer scholarships, as that is how the individual school's athletics departments chooses to be classified.

There are scholarship and non-scholarship NJCAA schools. Many of my teammates had full scholarships.

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The title says it all.  https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-12-05/college-football-is-a-money-pit-and-one-school-has-had-enough

I am confused on all the money loss in sports for even football.  What positive narratives exist that incorporate the revenue gained from higher student enrollment and booster donations against the sporting (call it what it is... 'marketing') expense?  

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7 minutes ago, jross said:

The title says it all.  https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-12-05/college-football-is-a-money-pit-and-one-school-has-had-enough

I am confused on all the money loss in sports for even football.  What positive narratives exist that incorporate the revenue gained from higher student enrollment and booster donations against the sporting (call it what it is... 'marketing') expense?  

Curious, what higher enrollment are you talking about?

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48 minutes ago, ionel said:

Curious, what higher enrollment are you talking about?

IMO, popular high school kids in sports have a circle of influence.  The bball fans and their friends go to Kansas University.  The football fans and their friends go to Kansas State University.  If KSU beat KU in basketball regularly, more students would choose KSU over KU, giving it a higher student enrollment.  If the KU football program wasn't awful, the positive branding would influence more students to choose it over KSU.  Many HS kids have no idea what they want to do for a living, a degree, school, etc.  Youth talk about sports at the water cooler more than they do engineering, healthcare, and business.  The social talk around sporting programs does influence higher enrollment at successful schools.  At least that was my experience 20+ years ago.  It's even degrees of influence.  My HS girlfriend liked KSU football and enrolled there, even though it was hours from our hometown.  Guess where I went?  KSU picked up two students in part from its football success and branding.  My going to KSU influence a buddy to enroll at a vo tech school in Manhattan, KS (he could not get into KSU).  So as not to cause confusion by mentioning my attendance at an NAIA and D1 school story in this thread, note that I went to several schools.

Update: Here is a good article (with dynamic charts) that correlates possible influence of sport success on enrollment.

Edited by jross
wording

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5 hours ago, Yellow_Medal said:


There are scholarship and non-scholarship NJCAA schools. Many of my teammates had full scholarships.

Thank you, sir. I am aware of this. I was coaching on a team that went from being a D III team for its first 50 years, to being a D I program starting with the 2014-15 season.

That said, NJCAA Division I programs are eligible to give up to 20 scholarships each season.

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Perhaps the wrestling season should consist of half a dozen or so seeding tournaments (per team), and no duals. 

That would provide for a lot of meaningful in-season matches and cut down on travel costs (and the expense that goes with it). 

While we’re at it, I’d also like to see a step out rule.

Edited by Katie

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2 hours ago, Katie said:

 

While we’re at it, I’d also like to see a step out rule.

Would you be ok with the rule - a wrestler who steps out you shall be required to step back in,  sound ok?  ;)

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3 hours ago, Katie said:

Perhaps the wrestling season should consist of half a dozen or so seeding tournaments, and no duals. 

That would provide for a lot of meaningful in-season matches and cut down on travel costs (and the expense that goes with it). 

This would be a great way to kill off interest in the sport...

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It would be helpful if schools put numbers out for what it would take to save any programs they want to cut. 
  
For example, if Iowa, PSU, Ohio State, Iowa State and Oklahoma State all plan to keep their teams, but NC State and Missouri May cut their programs if they can’t raise $200k before the season starts, we could focus our energy on getting the Iowa, PSU etc fans to donateto the cause. 
  
 

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15 hours ago, Katie said:

Perhaps the wrestling season should consist of half a dozen or so seeding tournaments, and no duals. 

That would provide for a lot of meaningful in-season matches and cut down on travel costs (and the expense that goes with it). 

While we’re at it, I’d also like to see a step out rule.

I thought about the opposite: just have 1 dual every weekend.  There would be two kinds of duals. 

Set up half of the duals between the best teams per some ranking service. Limit participation in these duals to teams in the top 20.  The rest of the teams can use their conferences or whatever.

The other half of the duals would be all-star duals. Again, just use the rankings and set up bouts between people in the top 20  . . Isn't this kinda what they do with boxing and MMA. So, every other weekend there would be an all-star dual at 10 locations. On all-star weekends, the rest of the wrestlers can enter open tournaments or IDK. 

Then hold the post season per usual. 

I dont know exactly how people and teams would move in and out of the top 20. Maybe before the all-star meet mave a "jv" dual for wrestlers in the top 40.

 

Probably the dumbest idea ever.

Edited by jackwebster

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14 hours ago, SetonHallPirate said:

This would be a great way to kill off interest in the sport...

I’d prefer to watch tournaments that matter over a ton of dual meets that don’t (in part because, as it stands, the best wrestlers regularly avoid each other). 

Edited by Katie

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2 hours ago, jackwebster said:

I thought about the opposite: just have 1 dual every weekend.  There would be two kinds of duals. 

Set up half of the duals between the best teams per some ranking service. Limit participation in these duals to teams in the top 20.  The rest of the teams can use their conferences or whatever.

The other half of the duals would be all-star duals. Again, just use the rankings and set up bouts between people in the top 20  . . Isn't this kinda what they do with boxing and MMA. So, every other weekend there would be an all-star dual at 10 locations. On all-star weekends, the rest of the wrestlers can enter open tournaments or IDK. 

Then hold the post season per usual. 

I dont know exactly how people and teams would move in and out of the top 20. Maybe before the all-star meet mave a "jv" dual for wrestlers in the top 40.

 

Probably the dumbest idea ever.

The current system incentivizes the best wrestlers to avoid each other for much of the year. Whatever reverses that incentive structure would have my support. 

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