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IronChef

Wisconsin will not allow spring seniors to return

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I think that's a good rule- it will keep the elite players from just transferring to a school that's going to pay them. Keeps competitive balance between the haves and the have nots. It will be interesting to see how many schools follow suit or at least come right out and say we are not giving scholarships. If you had a large number of seniors on scholarship for a sport that is a big chunk of change you now have to come up with to bring them back. With the loss of revenue and funds schools are experiencing right now I would not be surprised if this becomes the norm. 

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It was a thoughtful rule until schools like Wisconsin are arbitrarily removing the option to return and either 1) be granted a scholarship or 2) pay tuition. I don't see how it's fair if the school kicks the athlete to the curb while being explicitly allowed by the NCAA that they cannot attend another institution that is willing to provide an athletic scholarship.

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17 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

It was a thoughtful rule until schools like Wisconsin are arbitrarily removing the option to return and either 1) be granted a scholarship or 2) pay tuition. I don't see how it's fair if the school kicks the athlete to the curb while being explicitly allowed by the NCAA that they cannot attend another institution that is willing to provide an athletic scholarship.

Completely agree.

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48 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

It was a thoughtful rule until schools like Wisconsin are arbitrarily removing the option to return and either 1) be granted a scholarship or 2) pay tuition. I don't see how it's fair if the school kicks the athlete to the curb while being explicitly allowed by the NCAA that they cannot attend another institution that is willing to provide an athletic scholarship.

If they are student athletes and were a Sr in 19/20 and graduated, then why would they return and why would the university save space for them to return?

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12 minutes ago, ionel said:

If they are student athletes and were a Sr in 19/20 and graduated, then why would they return and why would the university save space for them to return?

Two reasons off the top of my head are some spring athletes like to go to grad school for free rather than pay for it, and others that were not previously entertaining the idea 7 weeks ago are now looking at the job market with 10% and growing unemployment and going back a whole 12 years at the last recession to see how bad the entry-level job market was.

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12 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

I get possibly not allowing scholarships, but how can Wisconsin do that if they pay their own way?

Yes this. Allow them on their own dime. Providing a scholarship for that beyond their senior year should not be required They are graduating They got their schooling paid for. 

Edited by Idaho

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Let me see if I have this straight.  The NCAA says 2020 spring sport Seniors can return for their 2021 season IF the school provides the $$$ for their scholarship (which may not be the same amount as they received previously).   But the block head that is Barry Alvarez makes a blanket statement barring ALL Wisconsin spring sport Seniors from that option?  Wow - I'll bet the lawyers in Wisconsin are drooling all over themselves about the prospect of suing the Univ. of Wisconsin - INDIVIDUALLY - for violating the rights of those athletes who are affected by this.  Particularly the 2020 spring sport Seniors who have never utilized their redshirt year - which at least 9 out of 10 softball players do routinely.

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15 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

I get possibly not allowing scholarships, but how can Wisconsin do that if they pay their own way?

Paying their own way?  So it's ok to pay to take away a spot from another incoming student?  Does that mean you are ok with the Loughlin daughter's getting into USC instead of another qualified student?  And if already graduated, what are they paying for?

As said above, sure it's one thing if continuing in grad school but generally grad school applications begin back in Dec/Jan for Aug fall start.  

 

Edited by ionel

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55 minutes ago, ionel said:

Paying their own way?  So it's ok to pay to take away a spot from another incoming student?  Does that mean you are ok with the Loughlin daughter's getting into USC instead of another qualified student?  And if already graduated, what are they paying for?

As said above, sure it's one thing if continuing in grad school but generally grad school applications begin back in Dec/Jan for Aug fall start.  

 

Who says they are taking a spot away from someone? If you are talking academics, if the incoming student qualifies to get in then they get in. How are they taking a "spot"? If it's the roster spot on a team then they are allowing rosters to be larger. The incoming freshman can redshirt and still get their actual time in if the senior returns in the same position. If a student athlete wants to not get a scholarship but continue playing and pay for the whole thing on their own dime, I don't see what the problem is. 

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1 hour ago, ionel said:

Paying their own way?  So it's ok to pay to take away a spot from another incoming student?  Does that mean you are ok with the Loughlin daughter's getting into USC instead of another qualified student?  And if already graduated, what are they paying for?

As said above, sure it's one thing if continuing in grad school but generally grad school applications begin back in Dec/Jan for Aug fall start.  

 

What the heck does Aunty Becky have to do with this?  I'm not saying they should get any special treatment - but some could have already been going to grad school anyway or maybe not even graduated yet.

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1 hour ago, Bronco said:

Let me see if I have this straight.  The NCAA says 2020 spring sport Seniors can return for their 2021 season IF the school provides the $$$ for their scholarship (which may not be the same amount as they received previously).   But the block head that is Barry Alvarez makes a blanket statement barring ALL Wisconsin spring sport Seniors from that option?  Wow - I'll bet the lawyers in Wisconsin are drooling all over themselves about the prospect of suing the Univ. of Wisconsin - INDIVIDUALLY - for violating the rights of those athletes who are affected by this.  Particularly the 2020 spring sport Seniors who have never utilized their redshirt year - which at least 9 out of 10 softball players do routinely.

However there is fine print - The NCAA is allowing it but the student athlete has to go through the waiver process at the school. The school has the power to make that decision. UW has chosen to deny waivers across the board. Not that necessarily agree with it.

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19 minutes ago, Idaho said:

Who says they are taking a spot away from someone? If you are talking academics, if the incoming student qualifies to get in then they get in. How are they taking a "spot"? If it's the roster spot on a team then they are allowing rosters to be larger. The incoming freshman can redshirt and still get their actual time in if the senior returns in the same position. If a student athlete wants to not get a scholarship but continue playing and pay for the whole thing on their own dime, I don't see what the problem is. 

Universities allow incoming students based on capacity, they dont simply allow everyone with a minimum ACT in and it's also based on program you are entering.  Sure there's a little flexibility but why should they give those spots to already graduated athletes vs let's say some kid who just wants to come back, retake bowling class and drink beer or versus an incoming freshman with high ACT score?

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Most common number I've seen thrown around regarding spring sports athletes is half a million dollars to cover that on the school's dime. I don't trust my alma mater's "study" as one of those things we can use as viable or valuable, but they also had the same numbers. And remember, spring sports are widely revenue sucks, since most baseball programs also operate at a loss. 

Now we have to pick our poison, since ODU has laid the foundation for teams to jettison athletes. Do you sacrifice one year, or an entire team and its history? Damned if you do ... you know how the rest of it goes. 

 

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2 minutes ago, ionel said:

Universities allow incoming students based on capacity, they dont simply allow everyone with a minimum ACT in and it's also based on program you are entering.  Sure there's a little flexibility but why should they give those spots to already graduated athletes vs let's say some kid who just wants to come back, retake bowling class and drink beer or versus an incoming freshman with high ACT score?

They don't give undergraduate spots to someone who already graduated from that program- it's called grad school. 

You've created a hypothetical situation that may or may not even exist. Given the state of university economics, I'm pretty sure they will allow for 1 extra kid to be admitted into the school.  Besides they are seniors - either A) They were not going to graduate this year and would have come back into the academic program next year anyway - which the school knows ahead of time who is graduating and who isn't. OR B) they are graduating and would have to come back into a grad program which they have to be accepted into. 

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1 minute ago, JasonBryant said:

Most common number I've seen thrown around regarding spring sports athletes is half a million dollars to cover that on the school's dime. I don't trust my alma mater's "study" as one of those things we can use as viable or valuable, but they also had the same numbers. And remember, spring sports are widely revenue sucks, since most baseball programs also operate at a loss. 

Now we have to pick our poison, since ODU has laid the foundation for teams to jettison athletes. Do you sacrifice one year, or an entire team and its history? Damned if you do ... you know how the rest of it goes. 

 

Wisconsin 25k room/board, tuition per year for in state - 50k out of state - x 35 senior athlete for Spring sports. Depending on amount they were getting, that adds up fast. .  74k a year at USC. On top of that the  NCAA only paid out 225 million out of 600 million they normally distribute to D1 schools. 

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5 minutes ago, RichB said:

Wonder if this only applies to 5th year seniors, or to 4th year seniors who could have redshirted this year anyway

Seems like all?
 

So will they still allow non-seniors to have an extra year if they want it?

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11 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Seems like all?
 

So will they still allow non-seniors to have an extra year if they want it?

Only seniors in a spring sport who did not get to participate in their final season of eligibility. Track, baseball, softball, etc.

 

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Let us try again. Someone who graduated HS in 2015, entered Wisc in the Fall of 2015. Did not actively compete in spring of 2016, or 2017, or 2018, or 2019, were denied a chance to compete in 2020 because of the Pandemic will not get a sixth spring.

But what if an athlete graduated HS in May/june 2016, And actively competed in Spring 2017, and 2018, and 2019. They were denied a chance to compete the entire spring, can they treat the year like an ordinary redshirt. Spring Outdoor Track jad not yet started competition, Possibly the same with sPring rowing. Possibly LAX, Bball,Sball,M-Vball had competed 40% of their schedule, But what if someone was injured Jan and Feb, so they only competed one or two March weekends, Someone may say the track folks did have an indoor year. But some schools have Outdoor but not indoor track. There are also some track events (eg Javelin) that do not have an indoor season, Seems to me those folks should all just take an ordinary redshirt.

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1 hour ago, Idaho said:

They don't give undergraduate spots to someone who already graduated from that program- it's called grad school. 

 

There are only so many grad school spots you have to apply, addressed earlier generally that process starts in Dec/Jan faculty review committees ~March, so sure if they already applied for grad school but again was addressed above.

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4 hours ago, 1032004 said:

I get possibly not allowing scholarships, but how can Wisconsin do that if they pay their own way?

 

3 hours ago, ionel said:

Paying their own way?  So it's ok to pay to take away a spot from another incoming student?  Does that mean you are ok with the Loughlin daughter's getting into USC instead of another qualified student?  And if already graduated, what are they paying for?

As said above, sure it's one thing if continuing in grad school but generally grad school applications begin back in Dec/Jan for Aug fall start.  

 

I'm  not saying Wisconsin does but some schools have squad limits for sports because of Title IX. Northwestern wrestling comes to mind. So even though a senior might have missed a year in say baseball, the school may not be able to take him back because of the number of bodies on the team.

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58 minutes ago, ionel said:

There are only so many grad school spots you have to apply, addressed earlier generally that process starts in Dec/Jan faculty review committees ~March, so sure if they already applied for grad school but again was addressed above.

if they already applied for grad school then what?  the AD told them they're not eligible

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