How old is Echemendia?

[LJB 1,453]

regardless of enchemendia...

i find it endlessly amusing that it is perfectly acceptable for a 19 year old to smash a 14 year old, but, a 20 year old to smash a 17 year old is cause to light fires in the trashcans...

[HokieHWT 587]

3 hours ago, LJB said:

you are 100% right... my math sucks...

you can be 16 years old on sept 2nd as a freshman and still only be 19 as a senior...

It’s ok, but you make a valid point. At one school I coached at 75% of wrestlers red shirted in 8th grade for “emotional growth”. 

[HokieHWT 587]

1 hour ago, LJB said:

regardless of enchemendia...

i find it endlessly amusing that it is perfectly acceptable for a 19 year old to smash a 14 year old, but, a 20 year old to smash a 17 year old is cause to light fires in the trashcans...

I think the issue is if he is as old as some are saying he CHEATED someone out of state and Junior National titles.

[LJB 1,453]

1 minute ago, HokieHWT said:

I think the issue is if he is as old as some are saying he CHEATED someone out of state and Junior National titles.

he had a piece of paper that said he was legal... just like everyone else...

and i get the whining... stop signs are important... and i do not condone cheating or lying even a little... but, he had that piece of paper... anyone could claim anyone else's piece of paper was crap as well... it has happened before... it will happen again...

[LJB 1,453]

9 minutes ago, HokieHWT said:

It’s ok, but you make a valid point. At one school I coached at 75% of wrestlers red shirted in 8th grade for “emotional growth”. 

full disclosure, i just held back my younger son this school year... he walked around 84 last summer and turned 14 in august... so, i am not 100% against the practice for reasonable circumstances...  

[cjc007 634]

It’s ok, but you make a valid point. At one school I coached at 75% of wrestlers red shirted in 8th grade for “emotional growth”. 

Really?

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

[HokieHWT 587]

5 minutes ago, LJB said:

full disclosure, i just held back my younger son this school year... he walked around 84 last summer and turned 14 in august... so, i am not 100% against the practice for reasonable circumstances...  

Initially, I was trying to plan my wife’s first  pregnancy so that our child would be a 18 at the beginning of his or her senior year. After 5 years of trying I’d take anything and my oldest was born mid-August, so it worked out. Now it’s convincing her, our intellectually advanced, toddler shouldn’t start kindergarten until he’s 6.

[HokieHWT 587]

4 minutes ago, cjc007 said:

Really?

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk
 

Yeah, staying back when you have 3-5 friends doing the same makes it easier to socially adapt.

[matts1w 94]

Serious question, why would you not want your kid to be the oldest in his or her class?   It seems to me the positives far, far outweight the negatives- physically, emotionally, socially...  Even if your kid isnt an athlete, doesn't it make more sense?  (That is a serious question.  Please tell me why it isnt.  I would love to understand more.)

 

[Antitroll2828 535]

8 minutes ago, cjc007 said:

Really?

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk
 

Damian Hahn said in a Flo interview his father held him back in 8th grade for him to mature emotionally and he was against but realized later it was the best thing that could have happened to him.

[LJB 1,453]

4 minutes ago, matts1w said:

Serious question, why would you not want your kid to be the oldest in his or her class?   It seems to me the positives far, far outweight the negatives- physically, emotionally, socially...  Even if your kid isnt an athlete, doesn't it make more sense?  (That is a serious question.  Please tell me why it isnt.  I would love to understand more.)

if my kid did not wrestle, i never would have never considered it under any circumstances... trying to always stack the deck in you kids favor in every aspect of their life is ridiculous and counter productive...

plus, it is just high school... i can't imagine placing such importance on it...

 

[matts1w 94]

...but something one should "never consider" is ok if your kid wrestles?  Then its cool?  Its not Ok for actors?  Or dancers?  Or forensics? Maybe that extra year of math and science and maturity enables you to win the robotics competition your senior year and admnission to Lehigh engeneering? 

Edited May 6, 2020 by matts1w

[Plasmodium 1,572]

2 minutes ago, matts1w said:

Serious question, why would you not want your kid to be the oldest in his or her class?   It seems to me the positives far, far outweight the negatives- physically, emotionally, socially...  Even if your kid isnt an athlete, doesn't it make more sense?  (That is a serious question.  Please tell me why it isnt.  I would love to understand more.)

 

Depends on how old.  One year, meh.  Two years, not so meh.  Maturity and time to get the hell out of dodge are tightly coupled.  Once they are ready to leave HS, they're bored and at risk. 

I think holding back is counter productive on balance, but could care less if people do it.   I never held back, but saw a mixed bag amongst the ones who did. 

Folks will always have their justifications. There is a book around called Outliers.  It rambles on and on about Canadian hockey players being astonishingly more successful if born in the first quarter of the year. When I read it, Iowa was publishing birthdates on their team page and I checked them to see who was old and who was young. I was surprised to see more young than old, relative to starting college at 18. FWIW, John Smith, Carl and JB graduated HS at 17.

[LJB 1,453]

15 minutes ago, matts1w said:

...but something one should "never consider" is ok if your kid wrestles?  Then its cool?  Its not Ok for actors?  Or dancers?  Or forensics?

i didn't say no one should ever consider it... we had considered it since we started him in pre-school before wrestling was ever a thing... he has always been a little emotionally/socially behind for his grade because that is just who he is...

but, so what? 

that is life... everyone has years and years that actually matter past high school to figure stuff out... high school is just a social step at best... nothing more...

but, because he wrestles on the level he does and it matters to him, being as small as he was at the time, it did not make any sense to send him out to get hurt being that small... it was purely a safety decision...

i don't even want him to wrestle in high school because of our **** style in this country, but, he is so small, he can not pursue the real styles full time just yet... and after hardly wrestling at all this past pre-season, we had the real season taken away... 

FWIW... i didn't hold back my oldest because he was big enough to wrestle as a 6lber his freshman year... he was still 14 at his first state tourney... 

Edited May 6, 2020 by LJB

[spladle 179]

We get it LJB, you are ok with cheating.

[LJB 1,453]

4 minutes ago, spladle said:

We get it LJB, you are ok with cheating.

you are nothing if not consistent...

[AHamilton 460]

Malcolm Gladwell Outliers 

 

It may be chapter 1?  Very early in the book, and very convincing.  "younger" kids really get screwed in grade school, which has a ripple effect that follows them to adulthood, especially with sports. (maybe with other stuff as well)

[MDogg 273]

When I was growing up I didn’t know a single kid  who ever had to repeat a grade unless they literally failed just about every class and couldn’t advance academically...or they had major social and behavioral problems. I knew kids who were a year too old or a year too young for their grade but that was 100% a result of when they enrolled in kindergarten, not from repeating a grade in middle school. 

How does that even work? You can’t just call up a middle school and say “I know he passed every class and everything but let’s do the whole 8th grade thing over again.” How can you tell a school your kid needs to repeat a grade for “emotional growth” reasons if the kid doesn’t have social or behavioral issues? It’s not like the school doesn’t know the kid. I imagine it might be easier at private schools but the decent private schools where I live all have wait lists and no chance they would let you unnecessarily take up another seat for an extra year just to gain an advantage in wrestling. Maybe I’m just naive but I just don’t see how 75% of wrestlers do this at certain schools like other posters have said. If nothing else the teachers union would make a huge stink about this. No 8th grade teacher wants a kid back in their classroom unnecessarily for a 2nd year in a row just so they can gain an advantage in wrestling when they get to high school. They and their union would throw a fit.

[TripNSweep 464]

14 minutes ago, MDogg said:

When I was growing up I didn’t know a single kid  who ever had to repeat a grade unless they literally failed just about every class and couldn’t advance academically...or they had major social and behavioral problems. I knew kids who were a year too old or a year too young for their grade but that was 100% a result of when they enrolled in kindergarten, not from repeating a grade in middle school. 

How does that even work? You can’t just call up a middle school and say “I know he passed every class and everything but let’s do the whole 8th grade thing over again.” How can you tell a school your kid needs to repeat a grade for “emotional growth” reasons if the kid doesn’t have social or behavioral issues? It’s not like the school doesn’t know the kid. I imagine it might be easier at private schools but the decent private schools where I live all have wait lists and no chance they would let you unnecessarily take up another seat for an extra year just to gain an advantage in wrestling. Maybe I’m just naive but I just don’t see how 75% of wrestlers do this at certain schools like other posters have said. If nothing else the teachers union would make a huge stink about this. No 8th grade teacher wants a kid back in their classroom unnecessarily for a 2nd year in a row just so they can gain an advantage in wrestling when they get to high school. They and their union would throw a fit.

Kolat's dad just told him to go to school and fail intentionally.  I know a former coach locally who purposely was held back for wrestling.  He just didn't go to school for a year I guess, and just wrestled.  At least I think that's what happened.  There are all kinds of reasons, non athletic too, for holding kids back.  I can see pluses and minuses to doing that, whether it's to let them mature personally, or to give them more time to learn.  If I had kids I would be in favor of it, only if the right educational environment was available. I would agree sending somebody to repeat a grade would be kind of pointless, but if you used that "redshirt" year as a way to do something exciting like live abroad and go to school someplace different, or maybe focus on the basics of studying and being taught how much fun it is to learn, something like that.  I think that has more positive benefits than just being stagnant and repeating a grade.  But that would be pretty neat if you sent or went along with your kid to a place like Japan for a year and had them study a few hours a day and become more culturally literate and maybe get some wrestling in too.  Having an open and broad mind helps so much with wrestling, especially if you are immersed in another culture's way of thinking.  Even if they wouldn't be successful in wrestling past a certain point, that's still a mind expanding experience.  

[matts1w 94]

59 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

FWIW, John Smith, Carl and JB graduated HS at 17.

FWIW, John Smith, Carl and JB = The very defintion of Outliers

[LJB 1,453]

20 minutes ago, MDogg said:

When I was growing up I didn’t know a single kid  who ever had to repeat a grade unless they literally failed just about every class and couldn’t advance academically...or they had major social and behavioral problems. I knew kids who were a year too old or a year too young for their grade but that was 100% a result of when they enrolled in kindergarten, not from repeating a grade in middle school. 

How does that even work? You can’t just call up a middle school and say “I know he passed every class and everything but let’s do the whole 8th grade thing over again.” How can you tell a school your kid needs to repeat a grade for “emotional growth” reasons if the kid doesn’t have social or behavioral issues? It’s not like the school doesn’t know the kid. I imagine it might be easier at private schools but the decent private schools where I live all have wait lists and no chance they would let you unnecessarily take up another seat for an extra year just to gain an advantage in wrestling. Maybe I’m just naive but I just don’t see how 75% of wrestlers do this at certain schools like other posters have said. If nothing else the teachers union would make a huge stink about this. No 8th grade teacher wants a kid back in their classroom unnecessarily for a 2nd year in a row just so they can gain an advantage in wrestling when they get to high school. They and their union would throw a fit.

there are many schools that do not like it and fight it, but, all a parent has to do if make one little mention of litigious action and they all fold like a cheap suit... 

or the parent simply takes them to a different school...

or the parent simply does not enroll them one year...

or they take a "year abroad"

it is not that hard if that is what you really want...

and yes, grades mean nothing... if they ever did, they sure do not now... schools will pass you no matter what... they are there to just churn out diplomas and babysit... little more...

[AHamilton 460]

24 minutes ago, MDogg said:

When I was growing up I didn’t know a single kid  who ever had to repeat a grade unless they literally failed just about every class and couldn’t advance academically...or they had major social and behavioral problems. I knew kids who were a year too old or a year too young for their grade but that was 100% a result of when they enrolled in kindergarten, not from repeating a grade in middle school. 

How does that even work? You can’t just call up a middle school and say “I know he passed every class and everything but let’s do the whole 8th grade thing over again.” How can you tell a school your kid needs to repeat a grade for “emotional growth” reasons if the kid doesn’t have social or behavioral issues? It’s not like the school doesn’t know the kid. I imagine it might be easier at private schools but the decent private schools where I live all have wait lists and no chance they would let you unnecessarily take up another seat for an extra year just to gain an advantage in wrestling. Maybe I’m just naive but I just don’t see how 75% of wrestlers do this at certain schools like other posters have said. If nothing else the teachers union would make a huge stink about this. No 8th grade teacher wants a kid back in their classroom unnecessarily for a 2nd year in a row just so they can gain an advantage in wrestling when they get to high school. They and their union would throw a fit.

The really good private schools want students to take up a seat for an extra year.  It is guaranteed money for an extra year.  I used to work at one of the top 50 schools in the country and they loved to make kids repeat a year. $$$

[AHamilton 460]

1 hour ago, Plasmodium said:

Depends on how old.  One year, meh.  Two years, not so meh.  Maturity and time to get the hell out of dodge are tightly coupled.  Once they are ready to leave HS, they're bored and at risk. 

I think holding back is counter productive on balance, but could care less if people do it.   I never held back, but saw a mixed bag amongst the ones who did. 

Folks will always have their justifications. There is a book around called Outliers.  It rambles on and on about Canadian hockey players being astonishingly more successful if born in the first quarter of the year. When I read it, Iowa was publishing birthdates on their team page and I checked them to see who was old and who was young. I was surprised to see more young than old, relative to starting college at 18. FWIW, John Smith, Carl and JB graduated HS at 17.

Very interesting. 

John W. Smith and JB are probably our two all-time greats.  Weren't they a little bit later to mind-blowing success than you would expect?  At least compared with some other prodigies from the wrestling world or other sports? How old were each when they won their first NCAA titles?

I'm not sure what it means, but interesting.

Edited May 6, 2020 by AHamilton

[LJB 1,453]

john smith won OK state titles his junior and senior year... JB only won one his senior year and was un-recruited...

[spladle 179]

54 minutes ago, LJB said:

you are nothing if not consistent...

As are you...