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How old is Echemendia?

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4 minutes ago, LJB said:

john smith won OK state titles his junior and senior year... JB only won one his senior year and was un-recruited...

Well to be fair JB lost in double overtime ride outs to Frank molinaro his junior year not like he won it out of nowhere as a senior 

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1 minute ago, spladle said:

As are you...

i know you are, but, what am i?????

 

should we just proceed straight to whose dad can beat up the other's dad or dilly dally some more?

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2 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

Well to be fair JB lost in double overtime ride outs to Frank molinaro his junior year not like he won it out of nowhere as a senior 

the point remains... he was not any kind of national superstar... un-recruited... i believe nebraska was the only school that even contacted him, which, should be a lesson to all...

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2 hours ago, matts1w said:

Serious question, why would you not want your kid to be the oldest in his or her class?   It seems to me the positives far, far outweight the negatives- physically, emotionally, socially...  Even if your kid isnt an athlete, doesn't it make more sense?  (That is a serious question.  Please tell me why it isnt.  I would love to understand more.)

 

I started kindergarten, the first time, when I was 4 turning 5 a month later. However my aunt and uncle were told I was “immature” after the first quarter and that I should start the next year,. They pulled me and I started over the following year which made me 18 within a month of the start of my senior year.

The problem that occurred, and one that I fear for my boys, is while I may have been “immature” socially, physically I was enormous (6’4” when I stop growing), and academically I tested in the 95-99 percentile on standardized tests throughout primary and secondary schools. This lead to a host of problems rbecause in the mid 80s elementary schools didn’t have “gifted classes”.

In elementary schools every single teacher would write the agenda for the day, with page numbers and assignments for each subject. Instead of waiting for us to switch subjects, I would read the materials and complete the work within the first 90 minutes of the school day. This lead me to have plenty of time to goof around, bother other students, and get in trouble. Starting in the winter of second grade the teachers, administration and guidance counselor decided it was best if a desk was put outside in the hallway and when I finished my work, I was to go out there, sit and read. Every. Single. Day. 
 

Imagine being 8 years old and by 10AM you have to sit in the hallway by yourself, only joining classmates for lunch, recess and extracurricular classes until school let out at 330PM. Pretty soon I was faking illness to go lay down in the nurses office rather than sit at that desk. If the nurse called for me to picked up, which only happened a couple of times because my guardians figured out I was faking, leading to playing my favorite game “pick a belt”, and they told her not to call anymore as they wouldn’t be coming.
 

To put it mildly, I hated school. Every day I dreaded going. I never want either of my kids to hate school, so I will never let them sacrifice academics for athletics. If they are ready academically they will start then, no sooner, no later.

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I was always the youngest and smallest in my class... where I went to school there was “gifted” classes in the early 80s... I was shipped downtown to learn programming on apple IIe computers on monochrome screens... by the mid 80s I had been kicked out all those classes... spending all my school days in in-house suspension or in the hall... all the administration liked me personally but I didn’t fit their standardized mold even a little... corporal punishment was a laughing matter... school sponsored shrinks a joke... all it taught me was if you can’t sit in a desk for 8 hours in a day you are going to struggle in this country’s educational system... 

which has tainted my view in regards to my own kids...

mixed results have followed...

of course, nowadays more than ever... everyone has access to unlimited knowledge in their pockets and this country does not know what to do with education... 

im sure there was a point...

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3 hours ago, AHamilton said:

The really good private schools want students to take up a seat for an extra year.  It is guaranteed money for an extra year.  I used to work at one of the top 50 schools in the country and they loved to make kids repeat a year. $$$

I try to avoid calling people out on this board because it never leads to anything productive...but either we have vastly different definitions of “top 50” or that’s simply false. There isn’t a single top 50 private school in the country that doesn’t have an extended wait list. Maybe super expensive boarding schools that pay firms who rate them and most people don’t actually consider elite, but that’s it. I’m actively involved with a foundation whose singular mission is to help kids apply and get admitted to elite private schools...kids who otherwise couldn’t afford to attend or in most cases even apply. Anyone who says there are open seats at top 50 private K-12 schools just doesn’t know what they’re talking about or the rankings they’re looking at are garbage. 

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3 hours ago, TripNSweep said:

Kolat's dad just told him to go to school and fail intentionally.  I know a former coach locally who purposely was held back for wrestling.  He just didn't go to school for a year I guess, and just wrestled.  At least I think that's what happened.  There are all kinds of reasons, non athletic too, for holding kids back.  I can see pluses and minuses to doing that, whether it's to let them mature personally, or to give them more time to learn.  If I had kids I would be in favor of it, only if the right educational environment was available. I would agree sending somebody to repeat a grade would be kind of pointless, but if you used that "redshirt" year as a way to do something exciting like live abroad and go to school someplace different, or maybe focus on the basics of studying and being taught how much fun it is to learn, something like that.  I think that has more positive benefits than just being stagnant and repeating a grade.  But that would be pretty neat if you sent or went along with your kid to a place like Japan for a year and had them study a few hours a day and become more culturally literate and maybe get some wrestling in too.  Having an open and broad mind helps so much with wrestling, especially if you are immersed in another culture's way of thinking.  Even if they wouldn't be successful in wrestling past a certain point, that's still a mind expanding experience.  

Dude...we’re talking about crazy wrestling parents (mostly dads)...specifically the one’s who make their middle school age kids repeat a grade so they can gain an advantage in wrestling. Guys like Kolat’s dad. How many of them do you think take those kids to places like Japan to broaden their cultural horizons?

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The issue at hand isn't the grey shirts, it is about a specific individual that most likely cheated at age 20 or 21 to compete in a lower age division.  All the equivocation in the world doesn't make it right but some of you are willing to turn a blind eye.

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42 minutes ago, spladle said:

The issue at hand isn't the grey shirts, it is about a specific individual that most likely cheated at age 20 or 21 to compete in a lower age division.  All the equivocation in the world doesn't make it right but some of you are willing to turn a blind eye.

he had the necessary paperwork to compete... 

most likely?

really?

if some "coach" who wasn't all red and raw did not whine you would not have a clue...

band wagon b!tch... nothing more...

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1 hour ago, MDogg said:

Dude...we’re talking about crazy wrestling parents (mostly dads)...specifically the one’s who make their middle school age kids repeat a grade so they can gain an advantage in wrestling. Guys like Kolat’s dad. How many of them do you think take those kids to places like Japan to broaden their cultural horizons?

as an aside...

i held my kid back this year... 

in october he was in hungary and croatia training...

what is "crazy" to some is tuesday to others...

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6 hours ago, MDogg said:

Dude...we’re talking about crazy wrestling parents (mostly dads)...specifically the one’s who make their middle school age kids repeat a grade so they can gain an advantage in wrestling. Guys like Kolat’s dad. How many of them do you think take those kids to places like Japan to broaden their cultural horizons?

Something similar happened to Pat McCaffrey when he was supposed to be in eighth grade. His dad sent him to live and train with a coach in an eastern European nation for six to eight months.

There was another local kid I used to coach whose dad was so obsessed with his kid winning a state title before high school that he took his son and moved to a different club after we got the kid to place fifth in state as a seventh grader. At the other club, his son placed sixth as an eighth grader. Not satisfied enough, the dad took his son, a straight A student at the public school, and enrolled the boy in Catholic school to repeat eighth grade. Not only did the kid not win the state title in his second eighth grade year, but he then had a very public blowout with his old man at the state tournament about how much the kid hated wrestling and hated his dad. That young man never stepped foot on the mat again.

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11 hours ago, matts1w said:

Serious question, why would you not want your kid to be the oldest in his or her class?   It seems to me the positives far, far outweight the negatives- physically, emotionally, socially...  Even if your kid isnt an athlete, doesn't it make more sense?  (That is a serious question.  Please tell me why it isnt.  I would love to understand more.)

My ex- and I should have done that for our 10-year-old son. He's was diagnosed as being dyslexic, along with other developmental bench marks he was constantly missing. We knew something was off when he was a toddler, but the push was made to have him in school as  quickly as possible. He is one of the youngest kids in his grade, where not enrolling him right away, making him one of the oldest boys in his grade. That decision would have helped him tremendously and I regret not doing it when we had the chance.

Giving boys an extra year to develop emotionally is backed by a ton of great science. I'm all for it for them, but not as a thin veil for athletic success at age group level.

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7 hours ago, MDogg said:

I try to avoid calling people out on this board because it never leads to anything productive...but either we have vastly different definitions of “top 50” or that’s simply false. There isn’t a single top 50 private school in the country that doesn’t have an extended wait list. Maybe super expensive boarding schools that pay firms who rate them and most people don’t actually consider elite, but that’s it. I’m actively involved with a foundation whose singular mission is to help kids apply and get admitted to elite private schools...kids who otherwise couldn’t afford to attend or in most cases even apply. Anyone who says there are open seats at top 50 private K-12 schools just doesn’t know what they’re talking about or the rankings they’re looking at are garbage. 

I try to avoid calling people out on this board, but you are wrong and I am right.

You obviously do not work with super expensive boarding schools, as i did .  

At NO POINT did I say anything about open seats.  Never.  Work on your reading comprehension.

I said that it is very very common for top prep schools to make a kid repeat a year.  For instance Little Johnny gets into a top prep school as a sophomore: Many, many schools will have Little Johnny repeat his sophomore year.  This way, they get an extra year out of Little Johnny for a number of reasons.

True story.

So your foundation is full of crap or you are.

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8 hours ago, MDogg said:

I try to avoid calling people out on this board because it never leads to anything productive...but either we have vastly different definitions of “top 50” or that’s simply false. There isn’t a single top 50 private school in the country that doesn’t have an extended wait list. Maybe super expensive boarding schools that pay firms who rate them and most people don’t actually consider elite, but that’s it. I’m actively involved with a foundation whose singular mission is to help kids apply and get admitted to elite private schools...kids who otherwise couldn’t afford to attend or in most cases even apply. Anyone who says there are open seats at top 50 private K-12 schools just doesn’t know what they’re talking about or the rankings they’re looking at are garbage. 

Yeah, schools like Phillip's Academy, Phillip's Exteter Academy, Deerfield Academy, and St. Paul's School are garbage.

Eat this, you charlatan...

http://www.admissionsquest.com/~resources/showarticle.cfm/articleid/84/articletypeid/5/topic/repeating-a-grade

 

I would add to the list, that if they bring in a super talented kid they get to keep him or her there for an extra year and not have to search for another talented kid.  They get more money from that family and have a relatively sure thing in one of their seats/teams.  They don't have to get someone of seemingly  lesser brains/ability/financial resources from the wait list.

Edited by AHamilton

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12 hours ago, matts1w said:

Serious question, why would you not want your kid to be the oldest in his or her class?   It seems to me the positives far, far outweight the negatives- physically, emotionally, socially...  Even if your kid isnt an athlete, doesn't it make more sense?  (That is a serious question.  Please tell me why it isnt.  I would love to understand more.)

 

There’s a flip side to every coin. You wouldn’t want him to be the oldest because then he never gets pushed. Think of a wrestling room. Do you want to be the best guy in the room?  No because you need a guy in there who is better than you so you can try to attain his level. Why do you think the smartest kids skip a grade?  Because the work in their own grades isn’t pushing them enough. 

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12 hours ago, AHamilton said:

Malcolm Gladwell Outliers 

 

It may be chapter 1?  Very early in the book, and very convincing.  "younger" kids really get screwed in grade school, which has a ripple effect that follows them to adulthood, especially with sports. (maybe with other stuff as well)

Although I enjoyed the book, I convinced myself the Canadian junior hockey birth date stats are an anomaly.

 

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1 hour ago, Plasmodium said:

Although I enjoyed the book, I convinced myself the Canadian junior hockey birth date stats are an anomaly.

 

Perhaps, but I would like to see other stats.  Hockey is a little odd with lack of ice time being a very real thing.  I can definitely see the "lesser skilled and less mature" kids being relegated to having less ice time with worse coaches.

Gladwell doesn't believe in all of the books theories anymore, either.  I think David Epstein , author of Range, has convinced him that the 10,000 hour rule isn't actually reality.

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6 hours ago, AHamilton said:

Perhaps, but I would like to see other stats.  Hockey is a little odd with lack of ice time being a very real thing.  I can definitely see the "lesser skilled and less mature" kids being relegated to having less ice time with worse coaches.

Gladwell doesn't believe in all of the books theories anymore, either.  I think David Epstein , author of Range, has convinced him that the 10,000 hour rule isn't actually reality.

I think books in this genre are often off base. Nevertheless, they are thought provoking and fun to read.

 

 

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9 hours ago, AnklePicker said:

There’s a flip side to every coin. You wouldn’t want him to be the oldest because then he never gets pushed. Think of a wrestling room. Do you want to be the best guy in the room?  No because you need a guy in there who is better than you so you can try to attain his level. Why do you think the smartest kids skip a grade?  Because the work in their own grades isn’t pushing them enough. 

That's where a coach or parent has to be proactive and find somebody to come in and beat their kid up.  Even though it's basketball, one of my favorite coaching stories is about the original Dream Team, which I consider the finest sports team ever assembled.  I think all but 1 player on that team ended up in the basketball hall of fame, and they were just loaded with talent. Chuck Daly had to keep them in order and not let them get complacent because they were the best in the world. Nobody is disputing that, but these guys were amazing.  So Daly had them play a team of the best college players at that time, Grant Hill, Bobby Hurley, Chris Webber, etc. During that scrimmage Daly made bad coaching decisions on purpose, not substituting guys in right, holding Michael Jordan back, just about any bad decision to hamper his team.  The Dream Team lost that scrimmage to the college all star group.  Daly then a few days later had them play again and didn't make any of the same coaching mistakes before and the college all stars got crushed.  He explained that he wanted his Dream Team guys to be afraid, and teach them that they could lose.  Because at that point there was no foreign team that could have touched them, but he wanted them to be mindful of the fact that even with their absurd amount of talent, that it was possible for them to lose.  Then in the Olympics they didn't win by less than 32 points.  So if you have a very good high school wrestler in your room who is not getting pushed, you've got to find a way to get somebody who can push him and teach him how to not always be the best.  

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21 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

I think books in this genre are often off base. Nevertheless, they are thought provoking and fun to read.

 

 

Currently, I'm reading The Talent Code.  I read Range a few months ago. All similar ideas if you are not familiar.  I did like Epstein's The Sports Gene better than Range however.

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