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shieldofpistis

Ohio State 2020-2021 season

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6 minutes ago, shieldofpistis said:

How talented is Ohio State's lineup projected to be next season?  Will the team be worse due to losing Pletcher and Moore or should the team improve overall because of new starters and current starters improving? 

I was thinking of this same topic. What does the projected starting lineup look like next year with graduations and weight changes (if any)? 

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I think their team placement at the national championships will be lower than it would have been this year because they are not going to have as much high end potential as this year.  This year Moore and Pletcher were likely finalists and Sasso had a decent shot at making the finals.  Next year Sasso is the only legitimate finalist candidate at this point and, because of guys shifting weights (including, possibly, Sasso himself), I am not sure his chances of being a finalist are going to be any better next year.  They have 5 or 6 other guys who could AA next year but, at this point, most seem likely to be lower AAs fighting it out in the blood round where overwhelming success never seems to be the case for any team.

Edited by Broomstick

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Looking for the Buckeyes to hopefully score some more transfers this off season to sure up some weights. Sasso and Kharchla could be bright spots. Romero seemed to make a jump last season.

 

25 Heinselmann

33 Decatur

41 Echemendia

49 Sasso

57 Kinner

65 Kharchla

74 Romero

84 Jordan????

97 Singletary????

85 Orndorff

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I wish the 125 pounder would redshirt and build muscle and I wish Decatur would redshirt and built stronger mental game.  His match vs desanto illustrated where he is mentally when things get tough.  I think a year if being coached up would help 

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3 hours ago, Broomstick said:

I think their team placement at the national championships will be lower than it would have been this year because they are not going to have as much high end potential as this year.  This year Moore and Pletcher were likely finalists and Sasso had a decent shot at making the finals.  Next year Sasso is the only legitimate finalist candidate at this point and, because of guys shifting weights (including Sasso himself), I am not sure his chances of being a finalist are going to be any better next year.  They have 5 or 6 other guys who could AA next year but, at this point, most seem likely to be lower AAs fighting it out in the blood round where overwhelming success never seems to be the case for any team.

So you think sasso's odds depend on yianbi staying at 141?

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21 minutes ago, shieldofpistis said:

So you think sasso's odds depend on yianbi staying at 141?

Sure, if Yianni is at 149 and Sasso is too that is an almost guaranteed one spot lower on the podium for Sasso.  But who knows if Sasso doesn't move up too.  Yianni and Sasso at the same weight is the only scenario where I see Sasso with a very low probability to win a title, but I don't think he is a high probability champion in any other scenario  either.  He, again, will be in a small group of potential winners, none being an overwhelming favorite.

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5 hours ago, DocBZ said:

It all depends on Echemendia and Kharchla. But ya replacing 2 wrestlers that had the inside track at winning an NCAA title will be hard to do.

If Echemendia makes AA I will come on here and apolgize and admit I am lower and dumber than whale ****!

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Recent interview with Coach Ryan he said that the plan was for Enchemendia to go 141.  Say what you will about the guy's age but he is a stud and will have no problem handling "grown man" strength in college.  I understand when guys just overpower opponents that the playing field often levels when they get to college but I don't believe that is why Enchemendia is so dominant.  While he is strong and athletic, his technique is phenomenal and this is why he is so dominant.  Provided he is enrolled and eligible (big ifs) I feel very strongly that his success will translate to folkstyle college wrestling.  I originally thought Sasso would move up to 157 but recently heard Jaggers say that he is the "perfect size" for 149.  Finally, Carson Karchla is listed as a 174 on the roster and competed the second half of his redshirt year at 174.  Because of his height and compact build, I like many assumed he would make 165 without issue.  Recent reliable sources have said that Karchla is big and his best weight is 174.  I see Romero as a title contender next at 174.  Who wins a wrestleoff between Karchla and Romero and would the other guy move up and challenge at 184?  Karchla's size could be good news for Ethan Smith and bad news for Rocky.  Finally the Bucks have both quality and depth at 197/285 with the foursome of Singletary, Hoffman, Traub and Orndorff.  I think Singletary will be very good at 197 and finish in the top four.

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23 hours ago, buckeyehomer said:

Looking for the Buckeyes to hopefully score some more transfers this off season to sure up some weights. Sasso and Kharchla could be bright spots. Romero seemed to make a jump last season.

 

25 Heinselmann

33 Decatur

41 Echemendia

49 Sasso

57 Kinner

65 Kharchla

74 Romero

84 Jordan????

97 Singletary????

85 Orndorff

I would rather see this lineup:

125 - Malik

133 - Decatur, Jordan

141 - Kinner

149 - Echemendia

157 - Sasso

165 - Kharchla

174 - Romero

184 - Jordan

197 - Singletary

HWT - Orndorff/Traub, may the best gas tank win.

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There are many weight class question marks on the roster this year. Malik’s technique is good but still seems small (muscularly) for 125, Jordan Decatur seemed like he was cutting a lot of weight last year so his gas tank suffered. For Kinner that was a huge jump going from 133 to 157 mid season, I would like to see him at 141. Also, Dylan D’Emilio is coming off a redshirt and could be a factor at 141 if it’s between him and Kinner. I think 149 and 157 are between Sasso and Echemendia, I could see both going either weight. I don’t see there being a spot for Cleary this year. He held the 157 spot most of last year, but wasn’t consistently winning. Carson wins whatever weight he decides to go. I’d like to see him go 165 but if he goes 174 it could start a domino effect. Ethan smith is also another wrestler who cut a lot of weight last year, not sure if he’ll try to go 165 if Carson goes 174. Romero looked good at 174 last year, not sure if he’ll try to wrestle off Carson if he goes 174 or just will bump to 184. Rocky Jordan walks around at 184 normally so it’d be nice to see him go 184 again. Hoffman started the year at 184 and like Decatur cut a lot of weight and it showed in his gas tank, interesting to see him wrestle HTW at open tournaments, surprised he didn’t wrestle at 197 at the opens. The plan for Singletary last year for this year was to bump down to 197, but that was before Kerkvliet transferred. I could still see Singletary bumping down to 197 with how Traub over performed last year and with the transfer to Ohio State for Orndorff. Also, does Boykin factor in this year with the transition from Greco to folkstyle?

The team will still be super young this year like last year (with the exceptions of Moore and Pletcher), but I feel a lot of experience was gained last year. It will be interesting to see how the weights settle in and who wins the battles.

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5 hours ago, balanceseeker said:

Recent interview with Coach Ryan he said that the plan was for Enchemendia to go 141.  Say what you will about the guy's age but he is a stud and will have no problem handling "grown man" strength in college.  I understand when guys just overpower opponents that the playing field often levels when they get to college but I don't believe that is why Enchemendia is so dominant.  While he is strong and athletic, his technique is phenomenal and this is why he is so dominant.  Provided he is enrolled and eligible (big ifs) I feel very strongly that his success will translate to folkstyle college wrestling.  I originally thought Sasso would move up to 157 but recently heard Jaggers say that he is the "perfect size" for 149.  Finally, Carson Karchla is listed as a 174 on the roster and competed the second half of his redshirt year at 174.  Because of his height and compact build, I like many assumed he would make 165 without issue.  Recent reliable sources have said that Karchla is big and his best weight is 174.  I see Romero as a title contender next at 174.  Who wins a wrestleoff between Karchla and Romero and would the other guy move up and challenge at 184?  Karchla's size could be good news for Ethan Smith and bad news for Rocky.  Finally the Bucks have both quality and depth at 197/285 with the foursome of Singletary, Hoffman, Traub and Orndorff.  I think Singletary will be very good at 197 and finish in the top four.

Echemendia was being ridden out by guys in high school who wouldn't come anywhere near placing at big national tournaments.  Ryan better keep him in neutral as often as possible, because he will end up getting brutalized in college with his mat wrestling. If he was getting beaten badly by college guys who aren't anywhere near being AA contenders, let alone even making it to the big dance, that should kind of tell you where he's at.  He's strong and athletic for sure, but he hasn't exactly been going against the same kind of intensity with people who are on par with him physically.  The few times he ran across guys who were decent in high school, he struggled and barely won.  Look up his matches at the Peoria finals vs a guy named Denen Fernandez who wrestles for an NAIA school now and isn't even a starter.  Here's the match if you're curious.  Arizona isn't exactly a wrestling powerhouse.

 

  

Edited by TripNSweep

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1 hour ago, TripNSweep said:

Echemendia was being ridden out by guys in high school who wouldn't come anywhere near placing at big national tournaments.  Ryan better keep him in neutral as often as possible, because he will end up getting brutalized in college with his mat wrestling. If he was getting beaten badly by college guys who aren't anywhere near being AA contenders, let alone even making it to the big dance, that should kind of tell you where he's at.  He's strong and athletic for sure, but he hasn't exactly been going against the same kind of intensity with people who are on par with him physically.  The few times he ran across guys who were decent in high school, he struggled and barely won.  Look up his matches at the Peoria finals vs a guy named Denen Fernandez who wrestles for an NAIA school now and isn't even a starter.  Here's the match if you're curious.  Arizona isn't exactly a wrestling powerhouse.

 

  

https://drive.mobisystems.com/sharelink/4rNUG1tKMG5MFG6h4VTXiN5lin4QXjlMGve84wYudLI5

Hopefully that link works. That is the bracket from that tournament. In the semi-finals he beat a good friend of my son's by major as you can see. Daniel wrestles up at Eastern Oregon along with his twin brother. I hope the kid does well but he needs a lot of work and folks out. The athletic ability is definitely there. It's just expecting a guy to be great in rugby immediately because he's a good football player.

Edited by ConnorsDad

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14 minutes ago, ConnorsDad said:

https://drive.mobisystems.com/sharelink/4rNUG1tKMG5MFG6h4VTXiN5lin4QXjlMGve84wYudLI5

Hopefully that link works. That is the bracket from that tournament. In the semi-finals he beat a good friend of my son's by major as you can see. Daniel wrestles up at Eastern Oregon along with his twin brother. I hope the kid does well but he needs a lot of work and folks out. The athletic ability is definitely there. It's just expecting a guy to be great in rugby immediately because he's a good football player.

It's going to be pretty tough for him honestly.  Once people figure out his mat wrestling defense and offense isn't very good it's going to get ugly.  Folkstyle is a much different sport than freestyle is.  The pace and the physical nature is something a lot of foreign wrestlers aren't used to.  Also look at how Jesus Wilson fared when he wrestled in college here, he was Cuba's rep at worlds a few times and won Pan Ams.  People thinking he's going to step in and be an instant AA or contender for a championship are deluding themselves.  He's going to struggle while adjusting.  

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2 hours ago, TripNSweep said:

It's going to be pretty tough for him honestly.  Once people figure out his mat wrestling defense and offense isn't very good it's going to get ugly.  Folkstyle is a much different sport than freestyle is.  The pace and the physical nature is something a lot of foreign wrestlers aren't used to.  Also look at how Jesus Wilson fared when he wrestled in college here, he was Cuba's rep at worlds a few times and won Pan Ams.  People thinking he's going to step in and be an instant AA or contender for a championship are deluding themselves.  He's going to struggle while adjusting.  

Trip, I'm certainly not the person to ask but would you say it's easier for a folk style wrestler to be elite in freestyle in than it is the other way around? I mean if we're looking for previous examples look at Lazaro Reynoso. I believe he did finally win a National Championship in NAIA (No Athletic Investigations Allowed) but that's a far cry from division 1 and it was a lot easier back then to get elite in a short amount of time than it is now.

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9 hours ago, TripNSweep said:

Echemendia was being ridden out by guys in high school who wouldn't come anywhere near placing at big national tournaments.  Ryan better keep him in neutral as often as possible, because he will end up getting brutalized in college with his mat wrestling. If he was getting beaten badly by college guys who aren't anywhere near being AA contenders, let alone even making it to the big dance, that should kind of tell you where he's at.  He's strong and athletic for sure, but he hasn't exactly been going against the same kind of intensity with people who are on par with him physically.  The few times he ran across guys who were decent in high school, he struggled and barely won.  Look up his matches at the Peoria finals vs a guy named Denen Fernandez who wrestles for an NAIA school now and isn't even a starter.  Here's the match if you're curious.  Arizona isn't exactly a wrestling powerhouse.

 

  

I’m not sure I’d call that “being ridden out.” He was ridden for like 30 seconds in the 3rd period and caught in a cheap tilt.

That was over a year ago and judging by his social media, he doesn’t seem to do a whole lot other than train.   I’m sure he will improve his mat wrestling and probably already has, at least on bottom.

BTW that video was making me nauseous

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4 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

I’m not sure I’d call that “being ridden out.” He was ridden for like 30 seconds in the 3rd period and caught in a cheap tilt.

That was over a year ago and judging by his social media, he doesn’t seem to do a whole lot other than train.   I’m sure he will improve his mat wrestling and probably already has, at least on bottom.

BTW that video was making me nauseous

Must have been another match, but the point is if he's giving up that kind of stuff to guys who are nowhere near D1 level wrestlers, with all due respect, then when somebody who is a legit D1 wrestler gets on top of him it won't be pleasant.  I saw what happened when he took on a college 141 who wasn't an NCAA qualifier and it wasn't pretty. I think a lot of people give him too much respect and let him beat them mentally because they think he's really good.  He definitely could and maybe should have taken a loss or two when he was at Sunnyside.  

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14 minutes ago, TripNSweep said:

Must have been another match, but the point is if he's giving up that kind of stuff to guys who are nowhere near D1 level wrestlers, with all due respect, then when somebody who is a legit D1 wrestler gets on top of him it won't be pleasant.  I saw what happened when he took on a college 141 who wasn't an NCAA qualifier and it wasn't pretty. I think a lot of people give him too much respect and let him beat them mentally because they think he's really good.  He definitely could and maybe should have taken a loss or two when he was at Sunnyside.  

I mean he should at least know how to not get turned from freestyle right?     Seems like worst case for the most part maybe he'll give up a riding time point.

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Best I can gather Echemendia started his defection to the USA in roughly June/July of 2018 but didn't arrive in the US until a few months later. That HS video was from over a year (1/19) ago and thus less than 6 months since he even arrived in the US (oh and BTW he still won that match against Denen Fernandez who went to Embry Riddle for college).  Coming to the US he had zero experience with folk and bottom wrestling. 

Next year he will be some 2 years out from then. He's been seen working at the Olympic TC, Ohio RTC, Ohio State, Michigan and Iowa rooms. You don't think he will have learned anything in those rooms about bottom skills by then? Also FWIW you don't even have to be good or even average on bottom to AA in college. Much to my chagrin Ohio State themselves have had several AA's that were questionable bottom wrestlers.

Also, Echemendia has beaten multiple highly ranked wrestlers easily (although granted in freestyle) including a 10-0 win against Josh Saunders 6 months ago who was #4 overall in 2020 and 8 months ago vs Victor Voinovich who is #15 overall in 2021. 

Here's another video of Echemendia throwing around Quinn Kinner at Ohio State.

https://twitter.com/AnthonyEchemen1/status/1234696789825130497

Bottom line is...will Echemendia have issues on bottom next year? Very probably. Well then that mean he can't possibly AA then right? No, history has shown us so. Will he AA next year then? I have no clue but  I just looked at who is coming back at 141 and 149 next year and I certainly don't think its crazy to see him in the top 8 there.

 

Edited by DocBZ

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As a Ohio State fan, in my  biased view, I believe Echemendia will AA next season. Just watching his YouTube stuff I could find, he seems like a phenom. Very rare speed in pursuit imo. I know nothing of his bottom game. I just can’t imagine him not being successful. Just seems to talented not to be able to work on week bottom game as some have specified here .

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