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CoachJSS

Group of 5 AD’s ask for NCAA President....

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The future of college wrestling is in the NAIA where schools are using wrestling (men's and women's) to boost enrollment.  The NAIA is growing.  

The NCAA minimum sports requirement for Division 1 has been more detrimental to wrestling in the last 20 years than Title IX.   If schools where required to carry more sports to remain DI we'd see more wrestling, etc. instead of million dollar football and basketball locker rooms. 

Edited by WRfan1

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Group of 5 schools with wrestling include....

Army, Navy, Air Force, Fresno St, Wyoming, Appalachian St, Kent St, Buffalo, Ohio, Northern Illinois, Central Michigan......

Army, Navy, and Air Force would seem pretty safe. The other 8 I'm not so sure of.

Wyoming and Fresno St, as well as Appalachian St main conferences don't sponsor wrestling.

The 5 MAC schools all seem shaky and it depends on this upcoming football season.

Scary times for these schools.

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1 hour ago, WRfan1 said:

The future of college wrestling is in the NAIA where schools are using wrestling (men's and women's) to boost enrollment.  The NAIA is growing.  

The NCAA minimum sports requirement for Division 1 has been more detrimental to wrestling in the last 20 years than Title IX.   If schools where required to carry more sports to remain DI we'd see more wrestling, etc. instead of million dollar football and basketball locker rooms. 

Disagree. There is a reason NAIA schools have trouble enrolling students (they aren’t as good as D1 and much of D3 in terms of quality/opportunity for students).  We need to do everything we can to maintain scholarships at the D1 level. 

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38 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

Disagree. There is a reason NAIA schools have trouble enrolling students (they aren’t as good as D1 and much of D3 in terms of quality/opportunity for students).  We need to do everything we can to maintain scholarships at the D1 level. 

That may be true, but it hasn't stopped the growth in NAIA.  I've had over a dozen kids I coach go to NAIA schools to wrestle in the past couple of years.  In almost every case the kid would not have chosen the school (or even looked at it) but for wrestling.   The model must be working to some extent, as the NAIA is continuing to grow.  Obviously we need to do everything we can to keep DI wrestling alive and thriving, but I'm not convinced the NCAA higher ups care about wrestling at all outside of the revenue brought in by the NCAA tournament. 

Edited by WRfan1

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This says G5 and not non-P5 schools.  One are FBS playing schools and the other are schools that don't play FBS football.  The fact that this letter was not joined by FCS (D1-AAA) schools leads me to believe that the issue is unique to the football playing schools and their specific rules.

Almost all the rules apply to all D1 schools, there are only a few that apply to FBS schools that don't apply to other D1 schools.   I will highlight the notable differences below.

 

Division-I requirements for all schools (must meet one of the following):

- 50% of allowable grants in each sport
- Minimum aggregate expenditure of $1,679,428 (with at least $839,714 in women’s sports) in 2019-20 (excluding football and men’s and women’s basketball). Grant value may not be less than 38 full grants (with at least 19 for women)  
- A minimum of the equivalent of 50 full grants (at least 25 full grants in women’s sports), exclusive of grants in football and men’s and women’s basketball 

 

FBS additional requirements (must meet all of the following):

- provide an average of at least 90% of permissible maximum number of football grants-in-aid during a rolling two-year period 
- Annually offer a minimum of 200 athletics grants-in-aid or spend $4 million on athletics grants-in-aid annually.
- Average 15,000 in actual or paid attendance for home football games during a rolling twoyear period.

 

This leads me to believe that while all measures will be discussed, the more likely resolution will be removing the attendance and scholarship requirements.  Reducing scholarships would do more to balance budgets than dropping the minimum sport requirement for most of these schools.  

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, CoachJSS said:

Group of 5 schools with wrestling include....

Army, Navy, Air Force, Fresno St, Wyoming, Appalachian St, Kent St, Buffalo, Ohio, Northern Illinois, Central Michigan......

Army, Navy, and Air Force would seem pretty safe. The other 8 I'm not so sure of.

Wyoming and Fresno St, as well as Appalachian St main conferences don't sponsor wrestling.

The 5 MAC schools all seem shaky and it depends on this upcoming football season.

Scary times for these schools.

That would be terrible for the MAC.

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1 minute ago, 1032004 said:

The letter says this is "the direst financial crisis for higher education since at least the great depression."

It's been a month since this started.  Is that really true?

Yes. Every student is off campus so they are losing a ton of money previously obtained from room/board.  Every public university expects a drop in state funding. Universities with hospitals have lost all revenue from elective procedures. And revenue from both spring and fall sports is expected to be 0. Donations from alumni are guaranteed to decrease as well. Almost every university in the country has instituted a hiring freeze and non revenue athletics are the least of their worries at the moment. 

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30 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

Yes. Every student is off campus so they are losing a ton of money previously obtained from room/board.  Every public university expects a drop in state funding. Universities with hospitals have lost all revenue from elective procedures. And revenue from both spring and fall sports is expected to be 0. Donations from alumni are guaranteed to decrease as well. Almost every university in the country has instituted a hiring freeze and non revenue athletics are the least of their worries at the moment. 

I get it’s bad but what I was more questioning was the comparison to the Great Depression, potentially implying it might be even worse.  What about the last recession?  Or even WWII when several years of championships weren’t even held?

And I’ve said before, yes they aren’t getting room/board money, but they’re also saving expenses by not having kids there while still collecting tuition (including the spring sports which for the most part aren’t money makers).  

I also get that football pays for everything else but like one of the Twitter commenters said on the original guy citing this letter, they can easily afford to trim football expenses that could make up for most if not all of the revenue shortfall.   I mean look no further than the ODU report: do college athletes really need chartered jets and unlimited food and snacks?  Do ASSISTANT college football coaches need to make over a million dollars?

Edited by 1032004

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1 hour ago, Billyhoyle said:

Yes. Every student is off campus so they are losing a ton of money previously obtained from room/board.  Every public university expects a drop in state funding. Universities with hospitals have lost all revenue from elective procedures. And revenue from both spring and fall sports is expected to be 0. Donations from alumni are guaranteed to decrease as well. Almost every university in the country has instituted a hiring freeze and non revenue athletics are the least of their worries at the moment. 

You forgot another major ball buster. Even the highly diversified Yale endowment is guaranteed to take a big hit due to the portfolio returns being double digit negative. The market drop was as brutal as the COVID spread and it ain’t over yet. 

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Imagine if they would propose cutting football scholarships from 85 to say 60? If these supposed leaders of universities can't see that football could utilize 25 less scholarships and be just as fruitful then all sports are in trouble. There are so many different ways to cut spending within just the football team that it's ridiculous. Football is the true reason for the death of many sports in the NCAA.

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1 hour ago, BobDole said:

Imagine if they would propose cutting football scholarships from 85 to say 60? If these supposed leaders of universities can't see that football could utilize 25 less scholarships and be just as fruitful then all sports are in trouble. There are so many different ways to cut spending within just the football team that it's ridiculous. Football is the true reason for the death of many sports in the NCAA.

Double whammy because it will be significantly less popular over the next 20-30 years

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3 hours ago, BobDole said:

Imagine if they would propose cutting football scholarships from 85 to say 60? If these supposed leaders of universities can't see that football could utilize 25 less scholarships and be just as fruitful then all sports are in trouble. There are so many different ways to cut spending within just the football team that it's ridiculous. Football is the true reason for the death of many sports in the NCAA.

Excellent point. 
 

the presidents and athletic directors would have to really bunker down and take a stand but none of them are brave enough too.....to much cash involved.

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9 minutes ago, CoachJSS said:

Excellent point. 
 

the presidents and athletic directors would have to really bunker down and take a stand but none of them are brave enough too.....to much cash involved.

It wouldn't be brave, it would be stupid. You need to make your donors happy, and spitting in their face would just hurt you in the long run. 

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1 hour ago, CoachJSS said:

Excellent point. 
 

the presidents and athletic directors would have to really bunker down and take a stand but none of them are brave enough too.....to much cash involved.

 

1 hour ago, CoachWrestling said:

It wouldn't be brave, it would be stupid. You need to make your donors happy, and spitting in their face would just hurt you in the long run. 

Unfortunately you are both correct. Football has basically 4X the number of scholarships for each starting position. That is akin to wrestling having 35 FULL scholarships. 

The NCAA could reduce the scholarship limit to help curb reducing sports...but again....they won't.

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Football is also the most dangerous sport. You can’t possibly play a game with 22 players.  I’m not saying college football needs 85 scholarships, but the NFL roster size is 55, and with college football you need to account for the fact that you don’t want certain 18 year old true freshmen on the field at the same time as 23 year old RS seniors. With college football you also can’t sign people and bring up people from the practice squad if there are injuries. Yes, there are injuries in wrestling too, but brain damage is not nearly as prevalent and the regular season is much less important, so throwing in walk ons for duals nobody cares about doesn’t matter. 

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11 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

Football is also the most dangerous sport. You can’t possibly play a game with 22 players.  I’m not saying college football needs 85 scholarships, but the NFL roster size is 55, and with college football you need to account for the fact that you don’t want certain 18 year old true freshmen on the field at the same time as 23 year old RS seniors. With college football you also can’t sign people and bring up people from the practice squad if there are injuries. Yes, there are injuries in wrestling too, but brain damage is not nearly as prevalent and the regular season is much less important, so throwing in walk ons for duals nobody cares about doesn’t matter. 

Right now NFL teams have a 55 man roster and 10 men on the practice squad.

Seems reducing the number of scholarships to 65 would work.

Plus,can't college teams have walk-ons ?

If they can,they could fill roster spots if needed.

I mean,given the number of scholarships for wrestling,there

aren't a lot of the guys really just walk-ons too ?

 

 

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FCS schools manage with 60-65 and D2 is like 35 or so. The biggest, baddest, most pain inflictingest FBS players prob don’t stick around college long enough to be 23 y/o RS SRs. But yah idk if head injuries in football will cause programs to have even bigger squads or to downsize (not necessarily in a literal manner) the sport. 

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