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Obelix

All-Star Zero-Time Champs Since 2000

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I think this one is more open for debate, as there as so many guys who could be in each weight. I had some notes, but I can't seem to find them, so I am surely missing some guys. And again, this one could be objective if we just use their placements, but let's add some subjectivity to this, eh.

 

125- It's hard to go against Hazewinkel here--and I think I'll stay with him--but I think Gilman would sure give him a run for his money. 

133- How fun would a folkstyle match be between Simmons and Hochstrasser? I'm going to go with the latter, mostly because he is sure a swell guy. Cody Sanderson and Graff get noted, too. 

141- I'm going to go Humphrey over Kennedy and McKenna. 

149- Frayer or Zadick? I'm going to lean towards Frayer, but I could be convinced otherwise.

157- Bryan Snyder. Green and Poeta were absolute studs, of course, but I'd top my list with Snyder. 

165- Churella* or Tyler Caldwell? I'm going with the former here. 

174- I'm going with Otto Olson here because (he's a local guy and) he was an absolute horse. 

184- Roger Kish here? Or do I go with Cormier? I think I'll go with Cormier. 

197- I don't think anyone can hang with Trenge here, can they? 

285- Coon. I don't think there's a question here, either. 

 

Again, I'm sure I'm missing some great guys who should be on the list. I do appreciate your opinions and interest, and these are fun conversations to have. 

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3 minutes ago, lu1979 said:

I think Robert Hamlin should get consideration at 184 - he was 2-4-2 with losses to Q Wright & Ed Ruth in the finals and a loss to Q Wright in the semis his Jr year.

The Vermonster!

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Guys to consider, that haven't been mentioned (multiple-time-finalists, 3-4x AA) -

Mitchell Port, Micah Jordan, Matt Kolodzik, Dylan Ness, Nick Amuchastegui, Mack Lewnes, Logan Storley, Craig Brester, Kollin Moore, Mike McMullan

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All good calls from you all. 

I now remember I had Brester on my original list. He was sure a stud.

I also wanted to note the crazy and epic 174 mash-ups between Kokesh, Storley, Evans, and Brown. Only one title between the four of them, but a dozen or so AA awards. I don't remember a group like this who wrestled each other so much for so many years that were as good as this group. 

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5 hours ago, Obelix said:

 

I think this one is more open for debate, as there as so many guys who could be in each weight. I had some notes, but I can't seem to find them, so I am surely missing some guys. And again, this one could be objective if we just use their placements, but let's add some subjectivity to this, eh.

125- It's hard to go against Hazewinkel here--and I think I'll stay with him--but I think Gilman would sure give him a run for his money. 

133- How fun would a folkstyle match be between Simmons and Hochstrasser? I'm going to go with the latter, mostly because he is sure a swell guy. Cody Sanderson and Graff get noted, too. 

141- I'm going to go Humphrey over Kennedy and McKenna. 

149- Frayer or Zadick? I'm going to lean towards Frayer, but I could be convinced otherwise.

157- Bryan Snyder. Green and Poeta were absolute studs, of course, but I'd top my list with Snyder. 

165- Churella* or Tyler Caldwell? I'm going with the former here. 

174- I'm going with Otto Olson here because (he's a local guy and) he was an absolute horse. 

184- Roger Kish here? Or do I go with Cormier? I think I'll go with Cormier. 

197- I don't think anyone can hang with Trenge here, can they? 

285- Coon. I don't think there's a question here, either. 

 

Again, I'm sure I'm missing some great guys who should be on the list. I do appreciate your opinions and interest, and these are fun conversations to have. 

I am strictly going who I think was the best person to never win the title. I also, barring an outlier, give more credit to somebody seeded high who didn't get it done as opposed to a middling seed who has a couple good years. Here are mine that I know you are waiting for.

125 - as best I remember it seems like a much bigger upset that Gilman didn't win as opposed to Sam.

133 - Simmons easily

141 - They were all pretty good but I think Joey was by far the better folkstyle wrestler. Does anybody still think he would have done as well had he stayed at Stanford?

149 - Again I'm not 100% sure who was better but I think it was a monumental upset or disappointment to everybody that the Zadik never won. Palmer is also a good one but I don't think he was ever favored to beat Metcalf even the year he beat him in the Big Ten's. I think most people still thought Brent would win.

157 - Poeta. Man he was fast. Still pumped to watch my boy Jordan Leen win his title.

165 - Churella I guess but Marinelli isright there. Obviously a different situation. 

174 - BoJo

184 - Cormier I guess. I can't remember was he that highly thought of in college?

197 - IMO, Trenge may be the best on this list. 

285 - Coon. End of discussion

Edited by ConnorsDad

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7 minutes ago, ConnorsDad said:

I am strictly going who I think was the best person to never win the title. I also, barring an outlier, give more credit to somebody seeded high who didn't get it done as opposed to a middling seed who has a couple good years. Here are mine that I know you are waiting for.

125 - as best I remember it seems like a much bigger upset that Gilman didn't win as opposed to Sam.

133 - Simmons easily

141 - They were all pretty good but I think Joey was by far the better folkstyle wrestler. Does anybody still think he would have done as well had he stayed at Stanford?

149 - Again I'm not 100% sure who was better but I think it was a monumental upset or disappointment to everybody that the Zadik never won. Palmer is also a good one but I don't think he was ever favored to beat Metcalf even the year he beat him in the Big Ten's. I think most people still thought Brent would win.

157 - Poeta. Man he was fast. Still pumped to watch my boy Jordan Leen win his title.

165 - Churella I guess but Marinelli isright there. Obviously a different situation. 

174 - BoJo

184 - Cormier I guess. I can't remember was he that highly thought of in college?

197 - IMO, Trenge may be the best on this list. 

285 - Coon. End of discussion

You’d take Simmons easily over Fleeger?

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15 minutes ago, Mokoma said:

You’d take Simmons easily over Fleeger?

I'll be honest I don't know anything about Fleeger. I know Simmons was a four-time All-American and undefeated in high school so that's why. Probably not the most scientific way of doing that I grant you.

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30 minutes ago, ConnorsDad said:

I am strictly going who I think was the best person to never win the title. I also, barring an outlier, give more credit to somebody seeded high who didn't get it done as opposed to a middling seed who has a couple good years. Here are mine that I know you are waiting for.

125 - as best I remember it seems like a much bigger upset that Gilman didn't win as opposed to Sam.

133 - Simmons easily

141 - They were all pretty good but I think Joey was by far the better folkstyle wrestler. Does anybody still think he would have done as well had he stayed at Stanford?

149 - Again I'm not 100% sure who was better but I think it was a monumental upset or disappointment to everybody that the Zadik never won. Palmer is also a good one but I don't think he was ever favored to beat Metcalf even the year he beat him in the Big Ten's. I think most people still thought Brent would win.

157 - Poeta. Man he was fast. Still pumped to watch my boy Jordan Leen win his title.

165 - Churella I guess but Marinelli isright there. Obviously a different situation. 

174 - BoJo

184 - Cormier I guess. I can't remember was he that highly thought of in college?

197 - IMO, Trenge may be the best on this list. 

285 - Coon. End of discussion

Hazewinkle, if I remember correctly teched Donahue 2 weeks earlier in the Big 12"s.If it wasn't a tech fall it was a major decision

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1 hour ago, ConnorsDad said:

I'll be honest I don't know anything about Fleeger. I know Simmons was a four-time All-American and undefeated in high school so that's why. Probably not the most scientific way of doing that I grant you.

Nick was a 3X AA at 125, once at 133.

A match between Gilman and Simmons would have been fun to see. Fists would have flown!

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On 4/15/2020 at 4:32 PM, DanGerMan said:

Kollin Moore, 110-11. 3x AA with sr year top seed lost to the Covid-19. 3x B1G champ,  Hodge runner up. Guy should get a look.

Fix. Forecasting the future .

 

Agree about Fix. I'm not sure if he will ever get out of his own head. 

Plus, idk, he doesn't seem to have coherent technique. His go-to attacks in neutral are shrugs and inside trips. His go-to defense is opposite ankle scrambles or turn-n-kickout. He does have great re-shots. But, he always seems on the verge of getting taken down or hit for stalling.

 

He's solid on bottom but might be relying more and more on G-fellar-style all or nothin rolls. On top, he puts in legs and hurts the guy's shoulders(?). He can ride, but I don't see a reliable turn. Even in freestyle, he hasn't been able to get to his trap arm recently. 

He stays in such great position that he comes away with the W more often than not. But but but... idk. Reminds me of Chris Perry. He is so tentative. 

Edited by jackwebster

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I used criteria of 4X AA all at same weight, if nobody with all 4 at same weight went with minimum 3 years at weight 2000-2019

125 - Sam Hazewinkel 3, 3, 3, 2

133 - Tyler Graff 5, 5, 3, 2   Simmons only had one  year at 133

141 - Mitchell Port R12, 2, 3, 2/Joey McKenna R12, 3, 3, 2

149 - Brandon Sorenson 4, 2, 3, 5

157 - James Green 7, 7, 3, 3   Bryan Snyder first year was 1999

165 - Tyler Caldwell 5, 2, 3, 2 

174 - Logan Storley 6, 4, 3, 4

184 - Robert Hamlin 2, 4, 2 competed at 174 in 2010 DNP

197 - Kollin Moore 3, 4, 2 

HWT - Michael McMullan 3, 2, 3, 3

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125:  Gilman  Was very dominant his senior year and was about as close as you come to winning it 2 years out of 3.

133:  Simmons  Just about the best lightweight wrestler in the 2000's if he didn't have to wrestle the NCAA semifinals!  But, that is why he is eligible to even be on this list.

141:  Port  The guy was an OX.  Just simple bad luck that he had an All-Timer at his weight.

149:  Zadick with Palmer very close behind

157:  Poeta  I still can't believe he didn't win one.  Burroughs was just a tough matchup as he really never let Poeta get to the ties and force any opening.

165:  Churella  Caldwell had a slightly better overall career, but Churella was a monster at the end and Hendricks barely squeaked by him.  HM:  Tyrone Lewis  This guy was a beast in the regular season, but just couldn't quite put it all together in March.

174:  Bo Jordan  He seemed to drop off a tad at the end of his career, but he was still able to beat some very high end talent.

184:  Cormier  He was only a Cael Sanderson away from being ineligible for this exercise.

197:  Trenge  Man, this was another guy that I still can't believe never won one.  He is the example to use when you want to point out how hard it is to be an NCAA DI Champ!

285:  Coon  This one is pretty damn easy.  His losses at NCAA's:  2018: Snyder  2016: Gwiz  2015: Gwiz  2014:(True Freshman)  Telford and Johnson

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Well, I think we're all pretty close, actually. I included guys who finished in 2000 and wrestled earlier, so that's why I have Frayer, Snyder, and Olson. 

Cael sure didn't help guys at 184 and 197 either, did he? The fact that Eggum and Vertus Jones could have qualified for this if we added a few years makes it even more amazing. Cael always wrestled someone very tough in the finals. 

Poeta and Snyder would be a doozy. Poeta was so fun to watch. 

Tyler Caldwell's stats are so good, but I can't erase Anthony Valencia demolishing him in Vegas as a high schooler. 

I'm fairly certain Kollin Moore would have won this year - and even if he didn't I would put Trenge and Brester over him. 

Hochstrasser would have been a 3-time top 4 guy if there weren't some transcript issues as a junior. 

No one else mentions Humphrey? 

It's fun to read all your opinions.

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4 hours ago, ConnorsDad said:

I'll be honest I don't know anything about Fleeger. I know Simmons was a four-time All-American and undefeated in high school so that's why. Probably not the most scientific way of doing that I grant you.

Fleeger was a 2 time runner up 1x 3rd in his 3 years of competition.  Simmons is a good choice but I’d take Fleeger. 3x champ Abas, 2x champ Travis Lee and 2X Matt Valenti were his losses at nationals.

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