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LJB

Dake and JB FRL

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7 hours ago, LJB said:

Vak, you are wasting your time... the unwashed masses have been told who their hero is and they will not be persuaded with truths... they will not scrutinize that hero... they will not hold that hero to the standards they expect of any challenger...

it’s a Greek tragedy...

yes oh might visier

who sees all and knows all

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2 hours ago, 1032004 said:

Dake was talking over JB and interrupting him way more.  Between that, the “I’m getting younger” nonsense, and the complaining about the trials setup Dake was 100% cringe.

YEAH... BUT... BUT... BUT... HE STARTED IT!!!!!!!!!!!!

*clinches fists and stomps feet*

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5 hours ago, maligned said:

If you have people in your life that seem nice on the outside AND live life thinking of others and building others up on the day to day--even privately maintaining respect and trying to reconcile with ones who mistreat them--it's no longer impossible to believe that those types of people exist elsewhere too. 

although few and far between, of course there are people that fit that description... 

that is not the point... never was... but, i do enjoy the masses spiraling into hyperbole because their hero has cracks and they just can't stand it the thought of the pedestal being tarnished whatsoever...

 

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7 minutes ago, LJB said:

YEAH... BUT... BUT... BUT... HE STARTED IT!!!!!!!!!!!!

*clinches fists and stomps feet*

Huh?  Not sure what your problem with JB is.   I thought he was very calm in the interview while still using the ultimate comeback of how many times he's beaten Dake.   I think the only thing he did in that interview that I wasn't a huge fan of was disparage the non-Olympic weights...but it is true...

I don't think the interview will have any impact on what happens next year and it's possible it was staged, but I can't imagine Dake gained any fans from that...

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7 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Huh?  Not sure what your problem with JB is.   I thought he was very calm in the interview while still using the ultimate comeback of how many times he's beaten Dake.   I think the only thing he did in that interview that I wasn't a huge fan of was disparage the non-Olympic weights...but it is true...

I don't think the interview will have any impact on what happens next year and it's possible it was staged, but I can't imagine Dake gained any fans from that...

Of course you do... it’s not surprising at all...

in fact, it is very typical...

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1 hour ago, LJB said:

although few and far between, of course there are people that fit that description... 

that is not the point... never was... but, i do enjoy the masses spiraling into hyperbole because their hero has cracks and they just can't stand it the thought of the pedestal being tarnished whatsoever...

 

when he tarnishes the crown i will be the first to ask why did you do that

but he hasn't.

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1 hour ago, LJB said:

Of course you do... it’s not surprising at all...

in fact, it is very typical...

OK so for whatever reason the interview did not help your impression of Burroughs.  Did it help your impression of Dake?  If the answer is yes, you're out of your mind.

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3 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

OK so for whatever reason the interview did not help your impression of Burroughs.  Did it help your impression of Dake?  If the answer is yes, you're out of your mind.

i think the exact same of both before and after...

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I sort of like the classic good vs evil shtick to pique interest.  Dake knows his place anyway and he is playing a good heel.  Maybe Askren is giving him professional advice on the subject.  He managed to turn Masvidal (a natural born heel) into the good guy.

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1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

Huh?  Not sure what your problem with JB is.   I thought he was very calm in the interview while still using the ultimate comeback of how many times he's beaten Dake.   I think the only thing he did in that interview that I wasn't a huge fan of was disparage the non-Olympic weights...but it is true...

I don't think the interview will have any impact on what happens next year and it's possible it was staged, but I can't imagine Dake gained any fans from that...

Burroughs point about the non-Olympic weight is true, but so is Dake's that he hasn't gotten to compete with Burroughs on an even playing field.  The one match where they were both on equal footing, Burroughs got zero takedowns and never came particularly close to one (Dake actually came closer), and needed the ref to put Dake on the shot clock twice in 1:30 of match time to win.

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Just now, VakAttack said:

Burroughs point about the non-Olympic weight is true, but so is Dake's that he hasn't gotten to compete with Burroughs on an even playing field.  The one match where they were both on equal footing, Burroughs got zero takedowns and never came particularly close to one (Dake actually came closer), and needed the ref to put Dake on the shot clock twice in 1:30 of match time to win.

Dake put himself on the clock.  His tactics were the reason neither got a TD. 

Every year, there is a set of rules and they both play by them. Therefore, it is an even playing field.  Dake chose to make excuses and move to a different weight group rather than take control of his own destiny.  I am a big JB fan, but I wonder whether he could have taken every series from Dake, if Dake were to have given it 4 more shots.

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Just now, Plasmodium said:

Dake put himself on the clock.  His tactics were the reason neither got a TD. 

Every year, there is a set of rules and they both play by them. Therefore, it is an even playing field.  Dake chose to make excuses and move to a different weight group rather than take control of his own destiny.  I am a big JB fan, but I wonder whether he could have taken every series from Dake, if Dake were to have given it 4 more shots.

They weren't on an equal playing field, Dake did not have the opportunity to wrestle Burroughs until after having wrestled matches earlier in the day while Burroughs waited.  Two things can be true:  Burroughs earned the right to wait and it being an unequal playing field.  In fact, it was DESIGNED to be unequal, to give returning medalists an advantage.  This year, Burroughs gets to wait, but it's not the same day, so Dake has less room to complain about it.  Not that he won't still complain if he loses, but it's a much more even and fair competition, and I'll have no sympathy for him.

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i was less concerned about dake being put on the shot clock twice in the last period than i was with JB being allowed to punch Dake over and over again in the face with not so much as an attention or a caution... in my mind, that was the defining moment of that match...

i have nothing but respect for danny as a ref... he is one of our best without a doubt, but, i can't help thinking that he let his emotions get the best of him in that match...

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3 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

They weren't on an equal playing field, Dake did not have the opportunity to wrestle Burroughs until after having wrestled matches earlier in the day while Burroughs waited.  Two things can be true:  Burroughs earned the right to wait and it being an unequal playing field.  In fact, it was DESIGNED to be unequal, to give returning medalists an advantage.  This year, Burroughs gets to wait, but it's not the same day, so Dake has less room to complain about it.  Not that he won't still complain if he loses, but it's a much more even and fair competition, and I'll have no sympathy for him.

while i understand Dake's position on the mini tourney and having to wrestle a well wrested opponent in a best of 3, but, i still do not agree with it... there are too many examples of wrestlers coming through the tourney and still winning the best 2 out of 3... i always lean to the best wrestler still wins the series regardless...

with that being said, i do like next day 2 out of 3 over same day...

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2 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

They weren't on an equal playing field, Dake did not have the opportunity to wrestle Burroughs until after having wrestled matches earlier in the day while Burroughs waited.  Two things can be true:  Burroughs earned the right to wait and it being an unequal playing field.  In fact, it was DESIGNED to be unequal, to give returning medalists an advantage.  This year, Burroughs gets to wait, but it's not the same day, so Dake has less room to complain about it.  Not that he won't still complain if he loses, but it's a much more even and fair competition, and I'll have no sympathy for him.

You are a glass half empty kind of guy.   All of these years have been an opportunity for Dake show his stuff at 74 kilos.  Seriously - if the Russian gets a dream draw and skatesin to the finals next year with what amounts to 4 sessions of light drilling is it legit Dake get to cry about his 1/2percent and getting poked in the eye by the Iranian?  Of course not.  He has to overcome, which is also part of the design.

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Just now, LJB said:

while i understand Dake's position on the mini tourney and having to wrestle a well wrested opponent in a best of 3, but, i still do not agree with it... there are too many examples of wrestlers coming through the tourney and still winning the best 2 out of 3... i always lean to the best wrestler still wins the series regardless...

with that being said, i do like next day 2 out of 3 over same day...

Ehhh....most guys aren't having to beat one of the best wrestlers of all time.  I mean, it was great that Gilman did it (I know you weren't using that example), but beating Tony Ramos is not the same as beating Jordan Burroughs.  To me, that's an easy cop out.  It's just common sense that having to compete more in the same day is going to put you at a disadvantage against a guy who doesn't have to, and if people are similarly talented, that gives the one who waited out a physical advantage.  Like I said, though, no sympathy from me for Dake next year, though.  He got what he wanted.  Lets see it.

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1 minute ago, Plasmodium said:

You are a glass half empty kind of guy.   All of these years have been an opportunity for Dake show his stuff at 74 kilos.  Seriously - if the Russian gets a dream draw and skatesin to the finals next year with what amounts to 4 sessions of light drilling is it legit Dake get to cry about his 1/2percent and getting poked in the eye by the Iranian?  Of course not.  He has to overcome, which is also part of the design.

Dake has done quite well anywhere he's wrestled, including giving J'Den Cox his toughest domestic matches (even beating him once!) while being dramatically undersized.  It's just tough to beat Jordan Burroughs, especially when you're at a physical disadvantage.  Again, I can't stress this enough, I haven o sympathy for him if he loses next year.

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2 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

Ehhh....most guys aren't having to beat one of the best wrestlers of all time.  I mean, it was great that Gilman did it (I know you weren't using that example), but beating Tony Ramos is not the same as beating Jordan Burroughs.  To me, that's an easy cop out.  It's just common sense that having to compete more in the same day is going to put you at a disadvantage against a guy who doesn't have to, and if people are similarly talented, that gives the one who waited out a physical advantage.  Like I said, though, no sympathy from me for Dake next year, though.  He got what he wanted.  Lets see it.

gilman did it to ramos... then fix to gilman...  snyder as well... there are other examples that i can't think of off the top of my head...

again, i get the argument and think it is valid, but, i still feel the best wrestlers wins regardless...

i am also ok with giving our proven athlete a bit of an advantage in the process because no matter what, the spot is earned by what happens on the mat...

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3 minutes ago, LJB said:

gilman did it to ramos... then fix to gilman...  snyder as well... there are other examples that i can't think of off the top of my head...

again, i get the argument and think it is valid, but, i still feel the best wrestlers wins regardless...

i am also ok with giving our proven athlete a bit of an advantage in the process because no matter what, the spot is earned by what happens on the mat...

I am too!  I'm ok with the advantage, it can be both a good idea and unfair, I just thought it was TOO MUCH advantage when it was same day.  

Your examples are different levels of guy.  Ramos, Gilman and Fix are not as good as Burroughs.

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1 minute ago, VakAttack said:

I am too!  I'm ok with the advantage, it can be both a good idea and unfair, I just thought it was TOO MUCH advantage when it was same day.  

Your examples are different levels of guy.  Ramos, Gilman and Fix are not as good as Burroughs.

you could say none of them are as good as dake either...

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25 minutes ago, LJB said:

JB arguing that he had a win in college that compares to the quality of Dake's win(s) over Taylor was absolutely ridiculous... 

again, more glimpses...

He was talking about Andrew Howe right? I mean he did finish 1-2-2-3 at NCAA’s (and has a freestyle win over Dake)

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25 minutes ago, LJB said:

you could say none of them are as good as dake either...

Not an unfair argument.  Look, I think we're relatively closely aligned on this in general.  We both agree there's an advantage, we both agree that it's ok for there to be an advantage for the returning medalists, and we both agree that we like it better where it's not the same day for the best of 3.  Good game?

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