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Zahid vs Bo Nickal who ya got?

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15 hours ago, Mokoma said:

You think a 2-1 “smashing” from 4 years ago means a lot?

You also think a junior silver is the same as U23 Gold?

You think Dieringer is a better win than Tcakulov?

I think a junior silver usually exceeds a U23 gold.  I am seeing evidence of the composition of the U23 fields improving... But the juniors is still often the second toughest tournament on the calender in a given weight.

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7 hours ago, JHRoseWrestling said:

I think a junior silver usually exceeds a U23 gold.  I am seeing evidence of the composition of the U23 fields improving... But the juniors is still often the second toughest tournament on the calender in a given weight.

Weird that at the Junior World’s we had 3 golds, 3 silvers and a bronze then out of 8 weight classes.  Then we go to U23’s and Bo is the only medal winner. 

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1 hour ago, Mokoma said:

Weird that at the Junior World’s we had 3 golds, 3 silvers and a bronze then out of 8 weight classes.  Then we go to U23’s and Bo is the only medal winner. 

Weird. lol  Not great logic! By your logic, U23 is tougher than the Olympics or UWW senior worlds  because we had fewer medals.

Generally speaking, UWW juniors is taken more seriously than U23.  We have guys make the U23 team and decide to not even go!

Also, Ringer is a better win than anything Bo has.

 

That being said, I would rather see Bo on a team than Zahid.

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50 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

Weird. lol  Not great logic! By your logic, U23 is tougher than the Olympics or UWW senior worlds  because we had fewer medals.

Generally speaking, UWW juniors is taken more seriously than U23.  We have guys make the U23 team and decide to not even go!

Also, Ringer is a better win than anything Bo has.

 

That being said, I would rather see Bo on a team than Zahid.

I see your point, but I was going with the fact that U23 basically had all the same guys eligible, 2 years later.  Obviously Worlds/Olympics is tougher than U23.

Dieringer is better than Tcakulov?  I’d like to hear the reasoning behind that.  

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29 minutes ago, Mokoma said:

I see your point, but I was going with the fact that U23 basically had all the same guys eligible, 2 years later.  Obviously Worlds/Olympics is tougher than U23.

 

Dieringer is better than Tcakulov?  I’d like to hear the reasoning behind that.  

U23 has the same guys eligible two years later, but most countries historically do not take it as seriously.  Maybe because, by that point you have probably already made your mark on the senior level if you are going to make it, and it is a waste of resources to send a team.

Ringer likely was the second or third best 79 Kg guy in the world in 2019.  Tcakulov was what, 7th? Nice little win but never really in the conversation for a world title yet. (and for whatever reason, he was replaced by Zhabrailov at Worlds.  Was he hurt, was it politics, or is Russia skeptical about his ability to win?)

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49 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

U23 has the same guys eligible two years later, but most countries historically do not take it as seriously.  Maybe because, by that point you have probably already made your mark on the senior level if you are going to make it, and it is a waste of resources to send a team.

Ringer likely was the second or third best 79 Kg guy in the world in 2019.  Tcakulov was what, 7th? Nice little win but never really in the conversation for a world title yet. (and for whatever reason, he was replaced by Zhabrailov at Worlds.  Was he hurt, was it politics, or is Russia skeptical about his ability to win?)

Fair point about Dieringer in 2019, I guess the difference is that Tcakulov was 7th in the world.  Dieringer was unable to make his team.

When did Valencia last beat Dieringer?  Was it last year?  If it was the May 2018 win, then it’s not really fair to call Dieringer likely number 2 in the world.  I don’t think in 2017 and early 2018 Dieringer was anywhere near a top 10 in the world type guy.

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Results from more than, say, 12-18 months ago are a bit disingenuous.  People change.  Body's change.  Habits change (cough cough...).

Given what we've most recently seen out of the both of them, I'll take Bo comfortably.  Most recent results are Bo with his U23 gold over a top 10 world ranked guy.  

Zahid looks great at 184, but proportionally, was not as dominating as Bo at 197.  Bo's 197 results are pushing that 12-18 month horizon that I stated, but, those are the most recent comparatives. 

So, until proven wrong, and I probably will be, Bo comfortably, in something like a 6-2 match (free).

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4 minutes ago, treep2000 said:

Results from more than, say, 12-18 months ago are a bit disingenuous.  People change.  Body's change.  Habits change (cough cough...).

Given what we've most recently seen out of the both of them, I'll take Bo comfortably.  Most recent results are Bo with his U23 gold over a top 10 world ranked guy.  

Zahid looks great at 184, but proportionally, was not as dominating as Bo at 197.  Bo's 197 results are pushing that 12-18 month horizon that I stated, but, those are the most recent comparatives. 

So, until proven wrong, and I probably will be, Bo comfortably, in something like a 6-2 match (free).

Agreed. Valencia’s win over Bo in 2016 means relatively nothing.  

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2 hours ago, Mokoma said:

Fair point about Dieringer in 2019, I guess the difference is that Tcakulov was 7th in the world.  Dieringer was unable to make his team.

When did Valencia last beat Dieringer?  Was it last year?  If it was the May 2018 win, then it’s not really fair to call Dieringer likely number 2 in the world.  I don’t think in 2017 and early 2018 Dieringer was anywhere near a top 10 in the world type guy.

Valencia beat Dieringer at the Pellicone in January.

The weight class had UWW ranked #3 Downey and #6 Amine.  Keep in mind, Downey was top 10 in the world at the 2019 championships under the same system  that  Tcakulov was ranked top 4 and placed 7th.  I see that Dierenger was ranked 7th a year ago, but think he has been higher.

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Also, I'd like to say that I prefer Bo's style over Zahid's and , at least at the moment, Nickal appears to be a person of better character.  I would rather Bo represnent the USA if it came down to it.

.. and I do appreciate Mokoma's willingness to consider some of my points. I just feel that, up until now, Zahid has done more with his freestyle career.  This could obviously change in the near future.

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