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35 minutes ago, shieldofpistis said:

Everything tells you it's a scientific theory? There are many atheists who don't even believe macro evolution is possible.  I gave you reading material.  Asked and answered. 

A worldview where God is not necessary is specifically what I take issue with, not evolution in itself necessarily.  God could have used evolution.  Unfortunately, if you watch the documentary, "Expelled' you would see how universities have ways to make sure evolution is presented as it is- even though quite a few oppose it.  But I am not a scientist. 

I will tell you that there is more evidence that Jesus Christ was crucified than there is for 98% of ancient history and what there is for evolution.  It's a historical fact.  5 secular sources within 70 years of crucifixtion along with gospels, book of hebrews, peter, James, and Paul.  That's like 10 ancient sources altogether.  That's why the best atheist historians don't even argue the fact that Jesus was crucified. 

A figure like Christ, or just Christ himself, almost certainly existed. That's well supported. Whether he was divine or not is not supported (though may be true). However, neither of these is even remotely as supported as evolution is. We can literally observe evolution occurring every single day. It's like saying the sky is green. Doesn't necessarily mean God doesn't exist unless for God to exist for you that requires every single word of the Bible to be true (I've got bad news for you here).

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6 hours ago, CoachWrestling said:

Wow I feel dumb now. But point stands for public universities and the wrestling community in general. 

Hey at least you admit it unlike most people on here. And don't worry, I feel like a dumbass every 10 minutes.

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2 hours ago, Lunaticfringe said:

Not really, it’s more of a “quit pushing your BS on me”. If I say I am not interested in praying, then I should not be viewed as an outcast in a public school. Is that not the entire point of going to a faith based Catholic/Christian school? To find people whom share the same faith, so you can have team prayers, pray at lunch and so on. I am not against people praying. For instance I went to a public school where we had a group of 10-15 people whom chose to take a knee and do a big several minute prayer after games and they invited players from opposing teams to join. Basically what I am saying(bible bangers always get offended) is if you want to go do your prayer feel free but don’t tell your entire team to knee and pray to some fake bull crap in the sky that doesn’t exist. 

Having been born Methodist and later baptized Catholic and wavered throughout my life, several things come to mind when reading your post.

1. The quit pushing your BS on me I wholeheartedly agree with. By the way, it's just as prevalent among non-believers as people of religion. Some of, not all, of the pushiest people I've ever seen said they were atheist.

2. Absolutely correct about going to schools of Faith to be with like-minded people.

3. Back to number 1, Bible bangers don't get any more offended than non Bible bangers. It seems we like objectivity on this forum not just in wrestling.

4. Unfortunately, one way or the other, neither you or I will never know what does or does not exist up in the sky.

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50 minutes ago, gimpeltf said:

But a lot of people were crucified back then. At least two others the same day, same place. Were those two also sons of God? One thing doesn't prove the other.

One most certainly was...."Today I will see you in paradise." - Jesus 

 

1 hour ago, Lunaticfringe said:

Losing side because bible bangers believe whatever the church tells them to believe

Yet you call them a Bible banger....which is where they get their beliefs actually. 

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51 minutes ago, gimpeltf said:

But a lot of people were crucified back then. At least two others the same day, same place. Were those two also sons of God? One thing doesn't prove the other.

2 Jesus's crucified in Jerusalem on the day bedore Sabbath and both had followers that he resurrected? You have the freedom to believe it I guess.

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43 minutes ago, jross said:

What are the odds this thread lasts through the night?  As a previous youth group leader and now an engineer, I believe that faith and reason cannot coexist.  Read the good book again and you will find some of the good guys in the old testament meet the definition of evil.  Praying to one person's god, in a group setting, is incredibly insensitive and sometimes offensive to others with different beliefs.  People have died for less offense.  Once you travel the world and recognize that religion is a byproduct of one's environment, some enlightenment may truly occur.  You can believe what you want and not force it on others.  There might be more Christians if not for the Christians -- the more you read the new testament and compare to the opposite observed Christian behavior, the less attractive it becomes :).  Follow the golden rule and you will get along fine with anyone.

Thomas Aqiunos one of the world's most intelligent men in history would disagree.  The most reasonable have faith. 

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47 minutes ago, jross said:

What are the odds this thread lasts through the night?  As a previous youth group leader and now an engineer, I believe that faith and reason cannot coexist.  Read the good book again and you will find some of the good guys in the old testament meet the definition of evil.  Praying to one person's god, in a group setting, is incredibly insensitive and sometimes offensive to others with different beliefs.  People have died for less offense.  Once you travel the world and recognize that religion is a byproduct of one's environment, some enlightenment may truly occur.  You can believe what you want and not force it on others.  There might be more Christians if not for the Christians -- the more you read the new testament and compare to the opposite observed Christian behavior, the less attractive it becomes :).  Follow the golden rule and you will get along fine with anyone.

That's why christianity exploded in China and Russia and growing in middle east- because product of environment? Makes no sense 

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37 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

A figure like Christ, or just Christ himself, almost certainly existed. That's well supported. Whether he was divine or not is not supported (though may be true). However, neither of these is even remotely as supported as evolution is. We can literally observe evolution occurring every single day. It's like saying the sky is green. Doesn't necessarily mean God doesn't exist unless for God to exist for you that requires every single word of the Bible to be true (I've got bad news for you here).

There is more evidence that Jesus resurrected than there is for nothing turning into something or a non life becoming life without a higher power. Many scientists agree 

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12 minutes ago, shieldofpistis said:

2 Jesus's crucified in Jerusalem on the day bedore Sabbath and both had followers that he resurrected? You have the freedom to believe it I guess.

I didn't say two others named Jesus. I said two others. I think most agree that Jesus of Nazareth existed. Was he the Christ? Some say yes, some no. You only said there was evidence he existed. that's not in much dispute. Believers of Mohammad believe he existed. But not that he was son of god nor that he was resurrected.

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Again, nothing there proves anything. I could say the same thing.

Axl rose has said similar.

Quoting Axl Rose is your greatest troll of all time .

 

Kudos.

 

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, shieldofpistis said:

There is more evidence that Jesus resurrected than there is for nothing turning into something or a non life becoming life without a higher power. Many scientists agree 

What you're referring to is called "abiogenesis," not "evolution." Two completely different fields. Evolution is an observable fact. Evolution is simply change over time. You referred to "macro evolution" in your original post. That's a nonsensical term only used by people who don't take the time to understand what evolution is. The only difference between what you would call micro and macro evolution is time. One happens over a few generations. The other is that exact same thing over millions and billions of years.

Would you stop believing in God if you accepted evolution?

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Back on topic though, what is with all these ridiculous job titles for assistant wrestling coaches and what is the real difference?


Associate head coach

Head Assistant coach

Assistant coach

Volunteer Coach

 

Is there any real difference between Head Assistant Coach(Mike Evans previous rank) and Associate Head Coach(Sentes previous rank)? Neither one is over the head coach and both sound to be top assistant.

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1 hour ago, shieldofpistis said:

That's why christianity exploded in China and Russia and growing in middle east- because product of environment? Makes no sense 

In a population of 1.5 billion, an increase of total converts from 1 to 2 is 100% growth.  100% growth is a positive story and the total of 2 converts provides the fuller context.

One is most likely to adopt the belief system of their parents and community.  Remember when you were a child and you believed in the tooth fairy, easter bunny, santa claus, etc.?  Remember when you believed all the one-side narratives published in your USA authored history books?  Have you read other books and noticed where the story is different?  If you were born in a different part of the world, it is highly likely that your beliefs would be different.  That community and environment would have a higher influence on your belief system than what you would stumble across in whichever version of the holy text you read.  Is Islam the fastest growing religion because it has the most proof and compelling text or is it because the population growth is faster in the part of the world that is predominately Islam?  Why is Hinduism so popular in India?  The randomness of your having been born in Utah, Alabama, China, India, or Iran has much influence on your identity.  FWIW, the map below tells us which god(s) our wrestlers will likely have faith in.

 

15862195483930986-8036634699.png

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1 hour ago, Lunaticfringe said:

Back on topic though, what is with all these ridiculous job titles for assistant wrestling coaches and what is the real difference?


Associate head coach 

Head Assistant coach

Assistant coach

Volunteer Coach

 

Is there any real difference between Head Assistant Coach(Mike Evans previous rank) and Associate Head Coach(Sentes previous rank)? Neither one is over the head coach and both sound to be top assistant.

Associate head coach = Jesus

Head Assistant coach = Paul

Assistant coach = Peter

Volunteer coach = Matthew

Grad Assistant = Mary of Magdalene
 

duh they teach you this in like 2nd grade vacation bible school 

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Associate head coach = Jesus
Head Assistant coach = Paul
Assistant coach = Peter
Volunteer coach = Matthew
Grad Assistant = Mary of Magdalene
 
duh they teach you this in like 2nd grade vacation bible school 
I've always been suspicious of twelve middle Eastern guys named Mark, Matthew, Luke, John, etc.




Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

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1 hour ago, Lunaticfringe said:

Back on topic though, what is with all these ridiculous job titles for assistant wrestling coaches and what is the real difference?


Associate head coach

Head Assistant coach

Assistant coach

Volunteer Coach

 

Is there any real difference between Head Assistant Coach(Mike Evans previous rank) and Associate Head Coach(Sentes previous rank)? Neither one is over the head coach and both sound to be top assistant.

Associate Head Coach is the head coach in waiting.  The title was created to give to long time assistants who are really on the level of head coaches so that they don’t leave to take a head coaching job elsewhere.   
 

Head assistant coach is the coach that is the most senior position of the assistant coaches. 
 

Volunteer coach is not paid by the University.  

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3 hours ago, gimpeltf said:

I didn't say two others named Jesus. I said two others. I think most agree that Jesus of Nazareth existed. Was he the Christ? Some say yes, some no. You only said there was evidence he existed. that's not in much dispute. Believers of Mohammad believe he existed. But not that he was son of god nor that he was resurrected.

This is what the evidence says.  Point 1- Jesus existed. 

                                                          Point 2- He was crucified 

                                                          Point 3-  The direct followers of Jesus believed that Jesus resurrected. 

                                                          Point 4- There was an empty tomb. 

This is called historical minimal facts.  You reach these conclusions by going over the written testimony up to 75 years after Jesus' birth.  This is called minimal facts because it does not include the Bible as infallible or the Word of God.  The great majority of NT scholars and historians reach those conclusions without accepting the Bible as directly the Word of God. 

So you can see even without Canons, there is a ton that is different between Mohammed.  If you question this accepted history, IM me.  I will gladly point you in the direction of what is accepted among NT scholarship.  

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1 hour ago, jross said:

In a population of 1.5 billion, an increase of total converts from 1 to 2 is 100% growth.  100% growth is a positive story and the total of 2 converts provides the fuller context.

One is most likely to adopt the belief system of their parents and community.  Remember when you were a child and you believed in the tooth fairy, easter bunny, santa claus, etc.?  Remember when you believed all the one-side narratives published in your USA authored history books?  Have you read other books and noticed where the story is different?  If you were born in a different part of the world, it is highly likely that your beliefs would be different.  That community and environment would have a higher influence on your belief system than what you would stumble across in whichever version of the holy text you read.  Is Islam the fastest growing religion because it has the most proof and compelling text or is it because the population growth is faster in the part of the world that is predominately Islam?  Why is Hinduism so popular in India?  The randomness of your having been born in Utah, Alabama, China, India, or Iran has much influence on your identity.  FWIW, the map below tells us which god(s) our wrestlers will likely have faith in.

 

15862195483930986-8036634699.png

 

 

Of course where you are born causes you to have a greater chance to accept the social norms there.  

But from my point of view, Jesus is the only way to eternal life.  And the argument that if I was in China I would say the same thing about Buddha is not true.  Christianity has exploded big time in Russia and China.  Did you know that there are China churches that actually send missionaries to US cities now? Same with Russia.  Stalin set up the league of militant atheists which killed millions of Christians, yet it only made Russia become more Christian in the long run.  

Historically, Christian has it's roots spreading through persecution.  Islam has its roots spreading by violence.  But when we look at the spread of Islam, it is has become more identified with a black power movement- the Nation- than it is about faith itself.  Christianity is not like that.  All cultures come to Christ.  

I suppose there are some people in primal villages that have never heard of Jesus.  I do not consider them accountable.  I don't know what God feels though- He's the judge, not me.  I do know Romans 1 tells us that there are certain things that we should know about God through creation.  Certain qualities.  So even if someone doesn't have the Bible, just by nature God expects to be known on some level. 

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2 hours ago, uncle bernard said:

What you're referring to is called "abiogenesis," not "evolution." Two completely different fields. Evolution is an observable fact. Evolution is simply change over time. You referred to "macro evolution" in your original post. That's a nonsensical term only used by people who don't take the time to understand what evolution is. The only difference between what you would call micro and macro evolution is time. One happens over a few generations. The other is that exact same thing over millions and billions of years.

Would you stop believing in God if you accepted evolution?

If you would listen you would already no the answer. No, evolution would not.  But you can't claim a small change and claim non-life turns into life over time.  Finches with different beaks does not prove that proteins turn into life.  I suggest you read the book "Bones of Contention." 

Adaptation is not evolution.  I don't believe the evolution theory.  It would not rattle my faith if it is true.  I think it would be IMPOSSIBLE without God.  The chances for things turning out like they did through evolution proves there is a God - so either way you can hide from Him. 

Anyway, I answered you.  If you want to go back to wrestling I urge you to stop addressing me or my points in a public thread. If you feel compelled, please IM me and we can discuss this.

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The question that everyone really wants to know is what happened to Zahid Valencia? How come he didn't wrestle at the end of the season? Has anyone heard anything? Also, Daton Fix, what happened with that story? And, are there still legal proceedings going on with Flo?  And what about Gable Steveson??? Is the investigation still going on or is it finally over? What did they find out? What about Dylan Martinez - wasn't he the guy with him? Nobody seems to care about this story. While we are at it, alone heard from Mudflap lately? 

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Let us stay on point @Idaho.  The question that everyone really wants to know is which version of Jesus do wrestlers prefer?  You've got your White, Jesuit-style Jesus, your Black African Jesus, your Mexican Jesus, and your swarthy Greek Jesus.

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Some prefer Tiny Jesus, in his golden fleece diapers with his tiny, little fat balled up fists.  You know that eight pound, six ounce, newborn infant Jesus, don't even know a word yet, just a little infant, so cuddly, but still omnipotent. Some like to picture Jesus in a Tuxedo T-shirt, 'cause it says, like, 'I wanna be formal, but I'm here to party, too.' I like to party, so I like my Jesus to party.... I like to think of Jesus like, with giant eagles' wings and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an Angel Band, and I'm in the front row, and I'm hammered drunk...

Wynn Michalak prefers to picture his jesus in one these.  Go Camels!

image-removebg-preview.png

Edited by jross

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56 minutes ago, shieldofpistis said:

This is what the evidence says.  Point 1- Jesus existed. 

                                                          Point 2- He was crucified 

                                                          Point 3-  The direct followers of Jesus believed that Jesus resurrected. 

                                                          Point 4- There was an empty tomb. 

This is called historical minimal facts.  You reach these conclusions by going over the written testimony up to 75 years after Jesus' birth.  This is called minimal facts because it does not include the Bible as infallible or the Word of God.  The great majority of NT scholars and historians reach those conclusions without accepting the Bible as directly the Word of God. 

So you can see even without Canons, there is a ton that is different between Mohammed.  If you question this accepted history, IM me.  I will gladly point you in the direction of what is accepted among NT scholarship.  

None  which still says that Jesus of Nazareth is the Son of God. That's taken on Faith (Christian faith, obviously). I have no problem with it but nothing there says anything to the contrary. In particular #3. The word believed says it all.

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