Best Wrestlers in Lock Haven History

[jerseywrestling 75]

Best Wrestlers in Lock Haven History

http://www.jerseywrestling.com/news.php?story=Best Wrestlers in Lock Haven History

The top five wrestlers in Bald Eagles history won a total of thirteen NCAA medals and six titles and include a three-time champion, a two-time champion, two three-time All-Americans, and another NCAA champion!

Check out the best Lock Haven wrestlers of all-time ranked by NCAA medals!

Here are the top five!

Rank - Name - Score - Medals

#1 - Gray Simons - 48 - 1,1,1
#2 - Cary Kolat - 32 - 1,1
#3 - Jerry Swope - 27 - 3,5,3
#4 - Brad Lloyd - 26 - 7,3,2
#5 - Fred Powell - 25 - 4,1

There have been 30 All-American wrestlers who have won 43 medals in Lock Haven history!

http://www.jerseywrestling.com/ncaa_team_profile.php?team=Lock+Haven

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[fadzaev2 313]

Not familiar with Swope, but I like the other 4, and I'd reverse 1 and 2...both GREAT, but without an explanation, I like Cary.....I rank him one of the top 3 high school wrestlers ever...maybe no. 1.  Had he been at one university all 4 years maybe he would have won more than 2 titles,  he was great on the international level, is a great technician......

[lu_alum 676]

Can’t put Kolat ahead of Simons. Simons was Gable and Carl before they were on the scene.

https://vault.si.com/vault/1962/03/26/little-man-with-a-big-lock-on-records

 

http://www.wrestlingstats.com/ncaa/view_wrestlers.php?wrestler=7808

 

 

 

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[lu_alum 676]

Not familiar with Swope, but I like the other 4, and I'd reverse 1 and 2...both GREAT, but without an explanation, I like Cary.....I rank him one of the top 3 high school wrestlers ever...maybe no. 1.  Had he been at one university all 4 years maybe he would have won more than 2 titles,  he was great on the international level, is a great technician......

The argument that more than one university prevented Kolat from winning more than two titles does not hold water. He transferred out of PSU after placing 2nd and 3rd. Are you suggesting he would have won more had he only attended LHUP?

 

 

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[Mokoma 266]

17 minutes ago, lu_alum said:

The argument that more than one university prevented Kolat from winning more than two titles does not hold water. He transferred out of PSU after placing 2nd and 3rd. Are you suggesting he would have won more had he only attended LHUP?

 

 

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I think he would have.  PSU was not the right fit.  

[fadzaev2 313]

2 hours ago, Mokoma said:

I think he would have.  PSU was not the right fit.  

I'm thinking it's possible as well.

[Eagle26 418]

Maybe Kolat would have won more maybe not, but how can you put him above an undefeated 3x national champion that was 3 for 3 in winning the NCAA tournament compared to 2 for 4?

[Mokoma 266]

8 hours ago, Eagle26 said:

Maybe Kolat would have won more maybe not, but how can you put him above an undefeated 3x national champion that was 3 for 3 in winning the NCAA tournament compared to 2 for 4?

Kolat was 2 for 2 in this example.  Only Lock Haven counts. 

[lu_alum 676]

Kolat was 2 for 2 in this example.  Only Lock Haven counts. 

In what way does his sophomore season at PSU not count? His only loss was a 6-4 OT decision in the NCAA SF.


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[whaletail 200]

18 hours ago, Mokoma said:

I think he would have.  PSU was not the right fit.  

Why wasn't PSU a good fit?

[ConnorsDad 545]

19 hours ago, Mokoma said:

I think he would have.  PSU was not the right fit.  

It's kind of hard to say PSU wasn't the right fit when he gets beat in the finals by a three-time champion and then the next year he gets beaten in the semi's in what would definitely be considered an upset. Do we really think that going to Lock Haven would have made the difference in that one match each year? In my opinion that's awfully rich to think that.

Edited April 26 by ConnorsDad

[Mokoma 266]

4 hours ago, lu_alum said:

In what way does his sophomore season at PSU not count? His only loss was a 6-4 OT decision in the NCAA SF.


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In the way that this is for Lock Haven results only.  Just as the Gwiz only has 3 placements at NC State or countless others in these jerseywrestling posts.

 

[Mokoma 266]

1 hour ago, ConnorsDad said:

It's kind of hard to say PSU wasn't the right fit when he gets beat in the finals by a three-time champion and then the next year he gets beaten in the semi's in what would definitely be considered an upset. Do we really think that going to Lock Haven would have made the difference in that one match each year? In my opinion that's awfully rich to think that.

Not really hard to say at all.  Kolat himself has stated this.  He blames the coaches for bottling up his style at PSU and not being able to wrestle / train his way.  It’s very common knowledge that’s a big part of why he left PSU.

Pretty sure Cary would know what school was or wasn’t a good fit for himself.

[manatree 7]

4 hours ago, lu_alum said:

In what way does his sophomore season at PSU not count? His only loss was a 6-4 OT decision in the NCAA SF.


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Penn State ≠ Lock Haven.

[lu_alum 676]

In the way that this is for Lock Haven results only.  Just as the Gwiz only has 3 placements at NC State or countless others in these jerseywrestling posts.  

 

See the highlighted portion of the quote and my subsequent reply in post #4. It was suggested he would have won more if he were at one school for all of his post-season events. I am inquiring as to how he would have done better than 2-3-1-1.

 

ConnorsDad gets the point in post #11.

 

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[Mokoma 266]

1 hour ago, lu_alum said:

See the highlighted portion of the quote and my subsequent reply in post #4. It was suggested he would have won more if he were at one school for all of his post-season events. I am inquiring as to how he would have done better than 2-3-1-1.

 

ConnorsDad gets the point in post #11.

 

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I’ve already explained that I think he potentially would have won 3 maybe 4 titles had he began his career at LHU instead of PSU.

PSU was not a good fit and they cramped and 2nd guessed his style.  He wasn’t able to wrestle the way he wanted to, which contributed to him losing to guys he was clearly better than.  

[Eagle26 418]

15 hours ago, Mokoma said:

Kolat was 2 for 2 in this example.  Only Lock Haven counts. 

Ok. Going by strictly lock haven results, you still have to put Gray ahead of him based on his 3 titles to 2 for Cary. I agree Kolat is amazing and would probably be better head to head (if that was possible), but Gray Simons was incredible in his day too and has the better stats. As incredible as Kolat’s accomplishments were, it’s almost like he underachieved because of how good he actually was. By this I mean, he was probably the best wrestler in the world for several years, but never actually accomplished that title (much of it out of his control, unfortunately). He was probably good enough to be a 4x NCAA champ too, but just didn’t quite get it done. We all know Kolat was an all time great, but we can’t just rank him above others with better stats based on that feeling. 

[ConnorsDad 545]

7 hours ago, Mokoma said:

Not really hard to say at all.  Kolat himself has stated this.  He blames the coaches for bottling up his style at PSU and not being able to wrestle / train his way.  It’s very common knowledge that’s a big part of why he left PSU.

Pretty sure Cary would know what school was or wasn’t a good fit for himself.

I never said he wouldn't know what's best for himself. If you look at your original post there is no mention of what Cary Kolat thought or didn't think so I would have to be a mind-reader.

[ConnorsDad 545]

35 minutes ago, Eagle26 said:

Ok. Going by strictly lock haven results, you still have to put Gray ahead of him based on his 3 titles to 2 for Cary. I agree Kolat is amazing and would probably be better head to head (if that was possible), but Gray Simons was incredible in his day too and has the better stats. As incredible as Kolat’s accomplishments were, it’s almost like he underachieved because of how good he actually was. By this I mean, he was probably the best wrestler in the world for several years, but never actually accomplished that title (much of it out of his control, unfortunately). He was probably good enough to be a 4x NCAA champ too, but just didn’t quite get it done. We all know Kolat was an all time great, but we can’t just rank him above others with better stats based on that feeling. 

Agreed. Here's something we all need to remember when trying, which is almost impossible, to compare people from different eras. Are we saying Dan Gable would beat Cael Sanderson? Of course not. But what we're trying to say when comparing people from different eras is had they been wrestling at the same time and had access to the same training, equipment, etc. would wrestler A have been better than wrestler B. At least that's my interpretation. And that's almost impossible to do unless somebody is just so far ahead of everybody in their time period. But what you can do is look at their results.

[Peso 331]

Two studs that's for sure.  Gray was just before my time, but I know he's influenced a lot of tremendous wrestling minds.  I understand watching one of the truly greats like Cary and not understanding how someone 50 years before him could be his equal in any way.  I remember watching Cael Sanderson win a pretty tough high school tournament in Grand Junction Colorado...as a freshman in h.s..  I had just taken my coaching show on the road to Montrose, Colorado.  During and after the tournament I was asked if I had ever seen anyone like him.  I had watched, John Smith, Kenny Monday, Pat Smith Kendal Cross, TJ Jaworsky and Mike Sheets all wrestle from junior high through NCAA, so I scoffed at him being better than them, but the comparison was legit.  He may have been better than any of them at that stage, but you could definitely tell all of those guys were just freaking special for their time.  That's how I always heard it was with Simon.  In the 2000's guys were still using what he had taught them and quoting him as a great influence on their coaching career.  I'll bet it's the same with Cary.  I don't know if one is better than the other, but I know they are both goats in our sport.  I believe either would take it as the supreme compliment to be compared to the other.  I guarantee you that Cary knows what an influence Mr Simon has been to so many.

 

 

[swoopdown 446]

I'd put Simons at #1because he would have won 3 at PSU.  Or the Little SIsters of the Poor.  Or wherever.  No such thing as the "bad fit" excuse for this guy.