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Best Never to Win Hodge?

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Nolf:

Three-time champ. Four-time finalist.

Just two actual ("true") losses in college by just 1 point each time to 2 time champ and 4 time finalist, IMAR (whom he also pinned).

60 falls  total (averaging 15 per season), a PSU record.  86.6% bonus rate.

Fierce beyond measure; dominant as hell; super creative; versatile scoring machine, especially on his feet; and a punishing pace.

Pushed the sport ahead with his experimentation and inventiveness.  

Edited by dmm53

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26 minutes ago, dmm53 said:

Nolf:

Three-time champ. Four-time finalist.

Just two actual ("true") losses in college by just 1 point each time to 2 time champ and 4 time finalist, IMAR (whom he also pinned).

60 falls  total (averaging 15 per season), a PSU record.  86.6% bonus rate.

Fierce beyond measure; dominant as hell; super creative; versatile scoring machine, especially on his feet; and a punishing pace.

Pushed the sport ahead with his experimentation and inventiveness.  

Yeah great point, what if "good for the sport" was a criteria.

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Before reading this I want to give my selection.

Disclaimer: I went through HS in the early 2000s, so I would say early 90s is about as far back as I go with my diehard fandom.

This said there is really only one logical choice here.

Nolf.

His last three years he was undefeated(yes... he was) and put up numbers and domination worthy of the hodge trophy.

What is scary is he had a higher bonus rate gus frosh and soph seasons than he did his junior and senior years.

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2 hours ago, IronChef said:

Snyder is a good answer for the topic "Best to Never Win Hodge" and a bad answer for "Guys Who Should Have Won Hodge," which is not the same question.

That’s a good way to put it and I’m in complete agreement.  Snyder was never close to deserving the Hodge over the guys who won it.

That being said the level he reached in college was probably a top 10 ever level.  

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That’s a good way to put it and I’m in complete agreement.  Snyder was never close to deserving the Hodge over the guys who won it.
That being said the level he reached in college was probably a top 10 ever level.  
He is clearly has the greatest accomplishments of an American while wrestling in college. Three NCAA titles, Two World Championships, and an Olympic Champion.

All without a redshirt season.

No one else is even close.


Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

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34 minutes ago, cjc007 said:

He is clearly has the greatest accomplishments of an American while wrestling in college. Three NCAA titles, Two World Championships, and an Olympic Champion.

All without a redshirt season.

No one else is even close.


Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk
 

Burroughs and Smith aren’t even close?

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1 hour ago, Mokoma said:

Burroughs and Smith aren’t even close?

Burroughs did not win a world title until just after college. Smith is close or better, but they did not (I am pretty sure) have the Hodge in his day.

 

Edited by NJDan

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I have seen replays and both at regular speed and slow motion I think Hidlay took Nolf down.  Now guys get breaks.  But I think it is not consistent to consider Stieber a 3 timer if you dont also consider Nolf a 2 timer.  

Probably best to be consistent and consider Stieber 4 timer and Nolf 3 timer.

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2 hours ago, NJDan said:

Burroughs did not win a world title until just after college. Smith is close or better, but they did not (I am pretty sure) have the Hodge in his day.

 

The statement was that Snyder has the greatest accomplishments of any American college wrestler, so Smith not having the Hodge doesn’t affect anything.  

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19 hours ago, NJDan said:

Burroughs did not win a world title until just after college. Smith is close or better, but they did not (I am pretty sure) have the Hodge in his day.

 

Wikipedia shows Hodge was started in 1995 and the first winner was TJ Jaworsky.

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15 minutes ago, TobusRex said:

He benefited by wrestling fat boys, plus he rarely got pins. Plus, was only wrestling "half-schedules".

Kind of like Lee, who wrestled a half schedule and mostly non normal sized adult men.

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3 hours ago, TobusRex said:

He benefited by wrestling fat boys, plus he rarely got pins. Plus, was only wrestling "half-schedules".

why was he wrestling half of schedule? Because he was also wrestling internationally better guys? 

Sure, some of the heavies were fat- but there were guys like Medberry who had some fat but a lot of strength and muscle.  What Snyder did by dominating much heavier guys with takedowns is something we will never see again.  

It is difficult to turn guys that outweigh you by 20-30-40 pounds.  I highly doubt Nolf would have turned many who outweighed by 40. 

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There’s a lot of incredible wrestlers on the short list for this, but Nolf is definitely at the top if you are going by strictly NCAA and hodge criteria. If you are going by “best wrestler” then, yes, it would be Snyder, but I don’t think that’s the right way to answer this.

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15 hours ago, shieldofpistis said:

why was he wrestling half of schedule? Because he was also wrestling internationally better guys? 

Sure, some of the heavies were fat- but there were guys like Medberry who had some fat but a lot of strength and muscle.  What Snyder did by dominating much heavier guys with takedowns is something we will never see again.  

It is difficult to turn guys that outweigh you by 20-30-40 pounds.  I highly doubt Nolf would have turned many who outweighed by 40. 

Why won’t we see this again?  Cassar did it last year.

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18 hours ago, shieldofpistis said:

why was he wrestling half of schedule? Because he was also wrestling internationally better guys? 

Sure, some of the heavies were fat- but there were guys like Medberry who had some fat but a lot of strength and muscle.  What Snyder did by dominating much heavier guys with takedowns is something we will never see again.  

It is difficult to turn guys that outweigh you by 20-30-40 pounds.  I highly doubt Nolf would have turned many who outweighed by 40. 

First off, I was mostly joshing about Snyder wrestling "fat boys". That said there is a kernel of truth to my statement. Snyder was far faster than any HWT he wrestled (even Gwiz), and what's more I think he was STRONGER than all his HWT opponents except possibly Coon, and I'm not so sure Snyder isn't stronger than Coon. He had a huge physical edge on the fat boys, not the other way around.  Plus, most (not all) HWTs are pretty lazy. They didn't get those bellies by busting their asses!

Regarding Nolf: 40 pounds is 25% of his bodyweight. That's a lot for a little guy. 40 pounds to a big boy like Kyle Snyder is far more doable (I speak from experience, I too was a 190 pounder who often wrestled HWT).

Edited by TobusRex

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