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HWC and the women

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Christian Pyles reporting a quote from Tom Brands to the effect of "The girls left voluntarily and we wish them luck and if they want to come back we will support that decision" which is bordering on as non-answer as the dude from HR was given.

Can we all just agree that if they didn't pull funding from the girls currently or in the imminent future then one of them would have just said that?  Taking it a step further then Tom and Terry both did some serious BSing in their interviews immediately following the backlash, and while Tom decided not to double down with the quote today he is trying to take the high road in an ingenuine and very transparent way.

And really Pyles, I mean really, you couldn't just ask him the obvious, elephant in the room question?!?!?!  Whatever role you claim to have in this situation whether it be a journalist, interested observer (or whatever it is semantically because I genuinely don't know how you position yourself) why would you put yourself in a position to share the same poor corporate speak they are delivering on HR right now.

 

Because truly what Tom is saying is "hey I am not going to pay you anymore but if you want to stay here for free great.  If someone else is going to pay you and you go there you can always come on back here and represent us for free"

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The HWC relies on marketing and donations for funding. It’s going to be especially hard now and probably not a good long term strategy to run off the best publicity available-winning; primarily only done by the HWC women. My guess, with the lack of wrestling on the schedule they decided the cost of supporting the HWC women outweighed the publicity (nothing to win right now).

That coupled with a significant budgetary shortfall and the cost of the new facility, basically forced this move.
Tom implied it was their choice. It would be like saying you aren’t going to pay someone any longer but they are welcome to come to work for free at any time. If they don’t, they “chose” to leave on their own. 

Regardless, it’s perplexing to announce Glynn and Moody so soon. Major PR blunder. Besides, Ragan probably beats Glynn in the room.

 

 

Edited by Force118

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13 hours ago, Force118 said:

The HWC relies on marketing and donations for funding. It’s going to be especially hard now and probably not a good long term strategy to run off the best publicity available-winning; primarily only done by the HWC women. My guess, with the lack of wrestling on the schedule they decided the cost of supporting the HWC women outweighed the publicity (nothing to win right now).

That coupled with a significant budgetary shortfall and the cost of the new facility, basically forced this move.
Tom implied it was their choice. It would be like saying you aren’t going to pay someone any longer but they are welcome to come to work for free at any time. If they don’t, they “chose” to leave on their own. 

Regardless, it’s perplexing to announce Glynn and Moody so soon. Major PR blunder. Besides, Ragan probably beats Glynn in the room.

 

 

This would be a non issue if Iowa said this. If they said “due to expected budgetary constraints in large part due to COVID, we had to make significant cuts to our spending in 2020-2021. While it pains us to do so, we can no longer financially support our wonderful women’s team. They are always welcome to train here at no cost and we would be lucky to have them in our RTC practices. With that said, we understand if they need to look for other sources of funding and will allocate $2000 in moving funds for each if they choose to go elsewhere.”

  
instead, Iowa basically is saying Alli is lying. 

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6 minutes ago, Housebuye said:

I assure you Alli cannot beat Glynn, or any other college wrestler, in a match. No chance. 
  
doesn’t really matter but yeah no way

I used to think the same thing until an EIWA champ whose trained with multiple team USA woman told me that a few woman could absolutely beat some guys in a match especially at 125 or 57 kg 

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14 hours ago, Force118 said:

The HWC relies on marketing and donations for funding. It’s going to be especially hard now and probably not a good long term strategy to run off the best publicity available-winning; primarily only done by the HWC women. My guess, with the lack of wrestling on the schedule they decided the cost of supporting the HWC women outweighed the publicity (nothing to win right now).

That coupled with a significant budgetary shortfall and the cost of the new facility, basically forced this move.
Tom implied it was their choice. It would be like saying you aren’t going to pay someone any longer but they are welcome to come to work for free at any time. If they don’t, they “chose” to leave on their own. 

Regardless, it’s perplexing to announce Glynn and Moody so soon. Major PR blunder. Besides, Ragan probably beats Glynn in the room.

 

 

Lmao. You must be joking

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1 hour ago, Antitroll2828 said:

I used to think the same thing until an EIWA champ whose trained with multiple team USA woman told me that a few woman could absolutely beat some guys in a match especially at 125 or 57 kg 

I don't know.

I was an above average high school wrestler who did nothing at the college level and I trained with a young woman who was a several time national champ (multiple fargo,multiple college, has been on team USA several years now) and while she was pretty tough, it was never really close. 

Maybe that's just one of those cases where you're not as good in practice as in a real match but she was definitely trying and definitely frustrated. 

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1 hour ago, nyum said:

Lmao. You must be joking

Laugh all you want but at the lighter weights the strength differences aren’t as apparent and you would be surprised at how technically sound and slick the female wrestlers have become. Several USAW coaches I know, believe the very best women could compete against men at the lighter weights-especially backups nobody has heard of.

Edited by Force118

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54 minutes ago, Cementmixer103 said:

I don't know.

I was an above average high school wrestler who did nothing at the college level and I trained with a young woman who was a several time national champ (multiple fargo,multiple college, has been on team USA several years now) and while she was pretty tough, it was never really close. 

Maybe that's just one of those cases where you're not as good in practice as in a real match but she was definitely trying and definitely frustrated. 

Not sure when you wrestled but as a whole women’s wrestling has come a long way in the past 10-15 years. One of the fundamental differences between gender performance isn’t just physiological differences but access. There are limited opportunities for woman to compete, train, and have access to the best coaches as compared to men. Therefore, they don’t develop as well. That has changed considerably. Just as wrestlers in Pennsylvania dominate the wrestling landscape-Not because they are special humans but because that’s where the best resources and participation tends to be.

A cursory search of objective performance measures indicates the best women in track and swimming have times similar to average college men. Furthering that point it wouldn’t be outside the realm of possibility if the USA women’s soccer team put a beating on Division 1 JV men’s teams. 

If we look at combat sports, would it be so outrageous to suggest Amanda Nunes, Holly Holm, Valentina Shevchenko, or even prime Rhonda Rousey could beat up on a average male fighter in the regional circuit? Seems very possible to me. 

Edited by Force118

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21 minutes ago, Force118 said:

Not sure when you wrestled but as a whole women’s wrestling has come a long way in the past 10-15 years. One of the fundamental differences between gender performance isn’t just physiological differences but access. There are limited opportunities for woman to compete, train, and have access to the best coaches as compared to men. Therefore, they don’t develop as well. That has changed considerably. Just as wrestlers in Pennsylvania dominate the wrestling landscape-Not because they are special humans but because that’s where the best resources and participation tends to be.

A cursory search of objective performance measures indicates the best women in track and swimming have times similar to average college men. Furthering that point it wouldn’t be outside the realm of possibility if the USA women’s soccer team put a beating on Division 1 JV men’s teams. 

If we look at combat sports, would it be so outrageous to suggest Amanda Nunes, Holly Holm, Valentina Shevchenko, or even prime Rhonda Rousey could beat up on a average male fighter in the regional circuit? Seems very possible to me. 

LMAO

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1 hour ago, Force118 said:

Laugh all you want but at the lighter weights the strength differences aren’t as apparent and you would be surprised at how technically sound and slick the female wrestlers have become. Several USAW coaches I know, believe the very best women could compete against men at the lighter weights-especially backups nobody has heard of.

I will laugh. But, you should realize that comparing women to men, at least in this context, is a disservice to women. 

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4 hours ago, Housebuye said:

This would be a non issue if Iowa said this. If they said “due to expected budgetary constraints in large part due to COVID, we had to make significant cuts to our spending in 2020-2021. While it pains us to do so, we can no longer financially support our wonderful women’s team. They are always welcome to train here at no cost and we would be lucky to have them in our RTC practices. With that said, we understand if they need to look for other sources of funding and will allocate $2000 in moving funds for each if they choose to go elsewhere.”

  
instead, Iowa basically is saying Alli is lying. 

That would have been the right move for sure. Didn’t Brands say that the HWC had  “unlimited funding” for the women’s team right after Perry’s departure? He kind of painted himself into a corner, not sure what he was thinking.

If I had to guess, Brands probably thought the women would leave quietly and follow Perry. It’s hard to fault Alli for being angry and putting the HWC administration on blast, but wrestling is kind of a small community and that seems like the sort of thing that can come back and bite you down the road. 

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So, now it appears one of the other 3 women (Miracle) is stating that her funding situation was never discussed at all and that whatever arrangement she had financially still stands indefinitely, or at least she is suggesting it in so many words as a counterpoint to Alli.  Alli has since doubled down on her statement that a zoom call did in fact occur indicating that funding would end in July.  Miracle is going to join FRL tomorrow and perhaps there will be a bit more directness, even if we are left with a he said/she said or she said/she said.  The situation is getting a bit more bizarre by the moment.

An interesting strategy by the HWC in the midst of the accusations announcing that the club is adding Moody, Lugo and Glynn.  While the temptation to wait until some smoke clears out of respect for the situation and women's wrestling may have been prudent perhaps they felt pressure that the other RTCs would be pursuing those free agent hammers (hoping sarcasm meter is on).

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The Cory Clark thing also makes the situation seem ugly. 

Also, July is a really really brutal time to move to Phoenix. Alli mentioned in the interview that they’re keeping their furniture, etc. and u-hauling it to AZ. I’m not sure if she’s crazy for attempting that or a genius with a brilliant new way to make weight!

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5 hours ago, Housebuye said:

This would be a non issue if Iowa said this. If they said “due to expected budgetary constraints in large part due to COVID, we had to make significant cuts to our spending in 2020-2021. While it pains us to do so, we can no longer financially support our wonderful women’s team. They are always welcome to train here at no cost and we would be lucky to have them in our RTC practices. With that said, we understand if they need to look for other sources of funding and will allocate $2000 in moving funds for each if they choose to go elsewhere.”

  
instead, Iowa basically is saying Alli is lying. 

Honest question:

I see people basically saying it’s like they were fired/laid off.  

Ok fine.  But in most businesses, if all of a company’s women (most of them successful) were fired (and might as well throw in that shortly thereafter 3 more men were hired), would that not be grounds for a gender discrimination lawsuit?

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1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

Honest question:

I see people basically saying it’s like they were fired/laid off.  

Ok fine.  But in most businesses, if all of a company’s women (most of them successful) were fired (and might as well throw in that shortly thereafter 3 more men were hired), would that not be grounds for a gender discrimination lawsuit?

I’d say it would be more like a college dropping a men’s sport and shortly after, adding a women’s sport. Unfortunately, that’s happened all to often.

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29 minutes ago, Eagle26 said:

I’d say it would be more like a college dropping a men’s sport and shortly after, adding a women’s sport. Unfortunately, that’s happened all to often.

I mean, if that's the analogy you're using...wouldn't this be more like cutting a women's sport and adding a men's one?   In which case they'd likely be sued for violating Title IX...

Edited by 1032004

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I have a theory based on comments from AR and KM.  Maybe AR and a current HWC member broke up, maybe it was ugly and maybe one of them had to go and they chose AR?  (I would've done the opposite if that was the case) but AR said this below so combined with KM tweets that's my total guess.  I'd still like to hear from the other women, specifically my personal favorite badass Molinari aka Snowflake. 

 

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