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HWC and the women

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34 minutes ago, Nutterbutter said:

I have a theory based on comments from AR and KM.  Maybe AR and a current HWC member broke up, maybe it was ugly and maybe one of them had to go and they chose AR?  (I would've done the opposite if that was the case) but AR said this below so combined with KM tweets that's my total guess.  I'd still like to hear from the other women, specifically my personal favorite badass Molinari aka Snowflake. 

 

Who is that guy? Kind of an odd take in that Twitter thread, with the stuff about KM still being funded and being sent to FRL as Brands’ PR. Like why would she do that? It would only create friction with her partners, some of which she might want to continue to train and travel with in the future. Even more strange was Gilman jumping in, then Ramos. Like wtf, April Fools was nearly a month ago, haha.

I hope the Flo guys ask the question we all want to the answer to tomorrow: is FM taking the cowbell with her??

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1 hour ago, pamela said:

Who is that guy? Kind of an odd take in that Twitter thread, with the stuff about KM still being funded and being sent to FRL as Brands’ PR. Like why would she do that? It would only create friction with her partners, some of which she might want to continue to train and travel with in the future. Even more strange was Gilman jumping in, then Ramos. Like wtf, April Fools was nearly a month ago, haha.

I hope the Flo guys ask the question we all want to the answer to tomorrow: is FM taking the cowbell with her??

Haha, I hope Snowflake stays at the HWC but I have no clue.  I think that's the difference, just a lot of emotion from people without many facts.  It does seem strange that so many people are reveling in what looks like the HWC's demise.  I had no idea Ramos was still salty though right?!  It has been entertaining so far.

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9 hours ago, 1032004 said:

I mean, if that's the analogy you're using...wouldn't this be more like cutting a women's sport and adding a men's one?   In which case they'd likely be sued for violating Title IX...

Yes, it would be. Title IX is all based on roster numbers, so it may or may not be a violation depending on the institution. It’s just extremely rare that it happens that way because of Title IX. But why is it ok drop a men’s sport and not a women’s sport? I would advocate for keeping opportunities for both genders when there is interest. In this case, I don’t think Title IX applies to clubs, so it would be legal, but that doesn’t make it ethical. My point wasn’t to support the funding cut (if was one). Just to say that sports get dropped all the time, so I don’t think there is a legal case for them being sued

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46 minutes ago, Eagle26 said:

Yes, it would be. Title IX is all based on roster numbers, so it may or may not be a violation depending on the institution. It’s just extremely rare that it happens that way because of Title IX. But why is it ok drop a men’s sport and not a women’s sport? I would advocate for keeping opportunities for both genders when there is interest. In this case, I don’t think Title IX applies to clubs, so it would be legal, but that doesn’t make it ethical. My point wasn’t to support the funding cut (if was one). Just to say that sports get dropped all the time, so I don’t think there is a legal case for them being sued

Well I don't think it's comparable to college sports because they're being paid.

My point was that I saw people on twitter saying it's as if they got laid off like a lot of other people in the past 6 weeks.  "At least they got 3 months notice," etc.   I was just saying if a regular business laid off only women then went and hired some more men, I don't think that would work out very well for them...

(It is seeming like maybe at least Miracle wasn't "laid off" though)

Edited by 1032004

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I see that AR and FM have changed their profiles from HWC to USA Wrestling... So I am guessing they are both moving on.  Wonder if any of it has to do with the funding for the new wrestling complex they are trying to build?? Can only have so many horses??

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"We are paying you until this time and then we will figure it out"  quote from Miracle.

"We are paying you until July and then funding is cut" quote from Alli

"We have unlimited funds and will do what is best for our women" quote from Terry Brands.

 

 

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It seems like what was said was there were some lifestyle choices being made that Brands didn't approve of, and he was giving them a heads up to change or ship out.  If they decided to change, the funding was still there.

I have no idea what those lifestyle choices might be, but there were at least two incidents with Forrest this year getting kicked out of dual meets for unruly behavior, so maybe that's related.

Seems like the girls were going to leave if Perry left, regardless.  So a confluence of events and bad communication.  Askren's point over the last few days shouldn't be lost: no club has been as big a proponent for women's wrestling as HWC has been.

I was not a fan of how this looked and sounded, but I feel better now after Alli's tweet and Kayla's interview today.

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3 hours ago, BobDole said:

Maybe I missed this, but what happened first Perry leaving or the girl's being cut? 

You have to be on the Inner Circle if you want that kind of info Senator

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3 hours ago, Class said:

"We are paying you until this time and then we will figure it out"  quote from Miracle.

"We are paying you until July and then funding is cut" quote from Alli

"We have unlimited funds and will do what is best for our women" quote from Terry Brands.

 

 

Good summary.

I think Miracle’s quote is probably closest to the truth as it’s basically somewhere in the middle.  To me that sounds like maybe they were not sure if they would have funding in July, but were trying to figure it out.

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4 hours ago, 1032004 said:

Well I don't think it's comparable to college sports because they're being paid.

My point was that I saw people on twitter saying it's as if they got laid off like a lot of other people in the past 6 weeks.  "At least they got 3 months notice," etc.   I was just saying if a regular business laid off only women then went and hired some more men, I don't think that would work out very well for them...

(It is seeming like maybe at least Miracle wasn't "laid off" though)

Except a regular business doesn’t have a separate Women’s division.  Women and men compete against and with each other in the business world.

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23 hours ago, Force118 said:

Not sure when you wrestled but as a whole women’s wrestling has come a long way in the past 10-15 years. One of the fundamental differences between gender performance isn’t just physiological differences but access. There are limited opportunities for woman to compete, train, and have access to the best coaches as compared to men. Therefore, they don’t develop as well. That has changed considerably. Just as wrestlers in Pennsylvania dominate the wrestling landscape-Not because they are special humans but because that’s where the best resources and participation tends to be.

A cursory search of objective performance measures indicates the best women in track and swimming have times similar to average college men. Furthering that point it wouldn’t be outside the realm of possibility if the USA women’s soccer team put a beating on Division 1 JV men’s teams. 

If we look at combat sports, would it be so outrageous to suggest Amanda Nunes, Holly Holm, Valentina Shevchenko, or even prime Rhonda Rousey could beat up on a average male fighter in the regional circuit? Seems very possible to me. 

I played soccer my freshman year of HS.  Was on the jv team and we scrimmaged the reigning girls soccer state champs.  We beat them 3-0.

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1 hour ago, Bozak2018 said:

I played soccer my freshman year of HS.  Was on the jv team and we scrimmaged the reigning girls soccer state champs.  We beat them 3-0.

The championship USA Women's World Cup soccer team lost 5-2 to a boys U-15 team.

https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/a-dallas-fc-under-15-boys-squad-beat-the-u-s-womens-national-team-in-a-scrimmage/

Olympic women's hockey champions Team USA played a number of high schools prior to the Olympics. Went 1-3.

https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/olympics-fourth-place-medal/u-women-hockey-team-scrimmaging-against-high-school-170704740--oly.html

 

Edited by AHamilton

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15 hours ago, AHamilton said:

The championship USA Women's World Cup soccer team lost 5-2 to a boys U-15 team.

https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/a-dallas-fc-under-15-boys-squad-beat-the-u-s-womens-national-team-in-a-scrimmage/

Olympic women's hockey champions Team USA played a number of high schools prior to the Olympics. Went 1-3.

https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/olympics-fourth-place-medal/u-women-hockey-team-scrimmaging-against-high-school-170704740--oly.html

 

You're not supposed to mention things like this.

You would have to be crazy to be a head coach of a Big 10 school and fundraise for female athletes in your RTC when that money can go to male athletes that attract high level HS talent on the recruiting end.  Of course T&T cannot say that.  If an RTC dumps several older male athletes who are not performing at a high level any more for younger/better guys, no one say anything.  Dump the females?  Jeez.

No nationally ranked HS wrestler is interested in which girls are training at any specific RTC when thinking of their future school.

I think PSU has the right idea with NLWC.  Don't even bother doing it in the first place.

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NLWC does have a women's wrestler - Alma Valencia. She's super exciting - pinned a world champ from Canada at the Pan Ams to be the first female wrestler ever to qualify for the Olympics for Mexico.

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18 hours ago, Bozak2018 said:

I played soccer my freshman year of HS.  Was on the jv team and we scrimmaged the reigning girls soccer state champs.  We beat them 3-0.

'We' being the freshman JV team or the varsity team?

Edited by Plasmodium

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2 hours ago, Boompa said:

You're not supposed to mention things like this.

You would have to be crazy to be a head coach of a Big 10 school and fundraise for female athletes in your RTC when that money can go to male athletes that attract high level HS talent on the recruiting end.  Of course T&T cannot say that.  If an RTC dumps several older male athletes who are not performing at a high level any more for younger/better guys, no one say anything.  Dump the females?  Jeez.

No nationally ranked HS wrestler is interested in which girls are training at any specific RTC when thinking of their future school.

I think PSU has the right idea with NLWC.  Don't even bother doing it in the first place.

Were the females older and not performing at a high level anymore?  (I don’t know)

Does Jeremiah Moody attract high level HS talent on the recruiting end?

Edit: and according to Brands, they have an unlimited budget so in theory the women they have should not impact what men they have 

Edited by 1032004

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23 hours ago, gobraves101905 said:

As the dust clears, all I know is that ASU and Sunkist Tempe RTC has gotten a lot better. There are going to be a lot of trophies and medals that come home to the West coast and Tempe over the next 5 years. 

Perry is a great pickup for ASU but Pendleton was a big loss. Inevitable that he was going to leave for a HC job (like Perry eventually will too), but a big loss nonetheless. 

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