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hammerlockthree

Why is Echemendia the next big thing?

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30 minutes ago, Tofurky said:

What does his age have to do with the discussion?

and let's bring up the hyperbole on his age and his opponents ages...

dude just wants to be contrarion only for the sake of it...

probably makes him feel edgy...

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I’ve heard that he had been tearing up the wrestlers at tosu.  Sasso’s hiccups in the season coincided with AE’s arrival and from what I heard it wasn’t close between the two of them. 

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On 5/3/2020 at 1:23 PM, Antitroll2828 said:

Yea and he was like 21 lol wrestling 15 and 16 yr olds

How is everyone so sure he is that old? Is her wrestling's Danny Almonte?

 

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2 hours ago, Scorenomore said:

I’ve heard that he had been tearing up the wrestlers at tosu.  Sasso’s hiccups in the season coincided with AE’s arrival and from what I heard it wasn’t close between the two of them. 

Hopefully at the Ohio RTC, not tOSU practices....

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3 hours ago, LJB said:

and let's bring up the hyperbole on his age and his opponents ages...

dude just wants to be contrarion only for the sake of it...

probably makes him feel edgy...

The whole point about his age is his struggled against high school kids in Arizona with his mat wrestling, and a 20 year old is a lot more physically matured then a 16 yr old, so with advantage in strength still struggling like that doesn’t bode well for when he faces the elite of the elite on the mat wrestling in the big ten week after week. 

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6 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

The whole point about his age is his struggled against high school kids in Arizona with his mat wrestling, and a 20 year old is a lot more physically matured then a 16 yr old, so with advantage in strength still struggling like that doesn’t bode well for when he faces the elite of the elite on the mat wrestling in the big ten week after week. 

I've not seen or heard about his birth date. Is/was he 20-years-old and winning a state title?

According to the Arizona Interscholastic Association by-laws:

AGE LIMIT / BIRTH RECORD RULE 15.6.1 Age Limits – If a student becomes 19 years of age after September 1, he/she is eligible to compete for the remainder of that school year. If he/she becomes 19 years of age on or before September 1, he/she is not eligible for any part of that school year. 15.6.2 Birth Records – Acceptable record of birth shall be submitted before a student’s name is placed on an eligibility list for varsity participation. Acceptable records shall be: 15.6.2.1 Certified Birth Certificate – One certified by the appropriate state agency. 15.6.2.2 Acceptable Substitutes – Hospital Certificate of Birth with seal or appropriate signature; a Department of Commerce Certificate; a Bureau of Immigration Certificate; a Department of Justice Certificate; a Certificate of Indian Blood signed and sealed by the Department of Interior, Bureau of Indian Affairs; a birth registration card issued by the State of Arizona Department of Health Services with seal; or a passport issued to a United States citizen (born in the United States or a naturalized citizen) by the State Department of the United States. 15.6.2.3 Verification of Birth – Verification of birth may also be established when three reputable sources of information acceptable to the AIA Executive Board all agree as to the date of birth (i.e., school records, immunization records, etc.). Such documents must demonstrate utilization of the birth date over an extended period of time (i.e., each document should reflect issue dates encompassing a number of years).

How could he have competed for a state title in Arizona with that being the case, especially if you continue to suggest he was already 20-years-old come Fargo after his senior year in high school? It doesn't add up.

Every single 16-year-old is at X level of physical maturity and strength, while every single 20-year-old is at a higher level of physical maturity and strength, simply because of age? Is that what you're selling here? Was he being turned to his back at frosh/soph tournaments?

I have only an English degree, but it served me well enough in reading and comprehension for my science requirements to earn As, and realize that your story isn't adding up here.

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4 hours ago, Tofurky said:

What does his age have to do with the discussion?

Correct me if I am wrong here, but Echemendia did not train any U.S. collegiate style whatsoever before his journey to the United States, right?

You're suggesting that he will walk away after four or five years of college, having worked with Ryan, Jaggers, Stieber, Dlagnev, Jordan, and others, having not improved his ability to get out on bottom from what it is currently? Your statement is pretty dubious, don't you think?

Your putting words in my mouth, I never said he wouldn’t improve I suggested that he ll have a career like Micah Jordan multiple time AA tons of wins a national finalist. I just pointed out that Ohio state is more known for there top guys struggles on the mat as opposed to making improvements. 

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12 minutes ago, Tofurky said:

I've not seen or heard about his birth date. Is/was he 20-years-old and winning a state title?

According to the Arizona Interscholastic Association by-laws:

AGE LIMIT / BIRTH RECORD RULE 15.6.1 Age Limits – If a student becomes 19 years of age after September 1, he/she is eligible to compete for the remainder of that school year. If he/she becomes 19 years of age on or before September 1, he/she is not eligible for any part of that school year. 15.6.2 Birth Records – Acceptable record of birth shall be submitted before a student’s name is placed on an eligibility list for varsity participation. Acceptable records shall be: 15.6.2.1 Certified Birth Certificate – One certified by the appropriate state agency. 15.6.2.2 Acceptable Substitutes – Hospital Certificate of Birth with seal or appropriate signature; a Department of Commerce Certificate; a Bureau of Immigration Certificate; a Department of Justice Certificate; a Certificate of Indian Blood signed and sealed by the Department of Interior, Bureau of Indian Affairs; a birth registration card issued by the State of Arizona Department of Health Services with seal; or a passport issued to a United States citizen (born in the United States or a naturalized citizen) by the State Department of the United States. 15.6.2.3 Verification of Birth – Verification of birth may also be established when three reputable sources of information acceptable to the AIA Executive Board all agree as to the date of birth (i.e., school records, immunization records, etc.). Such documents must demonstrate utilization of the birth date over an extended period of time (i.e., each document should reflect issue dates encompassing a number of years).

How could he have competed for a state title in Arizona with that being the case, especially if you continue to suggest he was already 20-years-old come Fargo after his senior year in high school? It doesn't add up.

Every single 16-year-old is at X level of physical maturity and strength, while every single 20-year-old is at a higher level of physical maturity and strength, simply because of age? Is that what you're selling here? Was he being turned to his back at frosh/soph tournaments?

I have only an English degree, but it served me well enough in reading and comprehension for my science requirements to earn As, and realize that your story isn't adding up here.

Idk if you noticed but there have more then a few issues with his birth certificate and transcripts from Cuba,...Major league baseball has fallen for fake birth certificates out of Cuba but all of sudden Arizona high school sports association is the gold standard in these things? 
 

your argument that some 16 years old are built differently then others well duh Sherlock but are you going to argue that AE isn’t built like an Olympic weight lifter? So if he’s built like that and 20 years old is doesn’t matter because one 16 year old from Tucson might be just as strong 

weird to brag about your English degree and reading comprehension skills while arguing anonymously with strangers on a wrestling forum lol and at the same time misrepresenting the whole point i was making. 

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5 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

Idk if you noticed but there have more then a few issues with his birth certificate and transcripts from Cuba,...Major league baseball has fallen for fake birth certificates out of Cuba but all of sudden Arizona high school sports association is the gold standard in these things? 
 

your argument that some 16 years old are built differently then others well duh Sherlock but are you going to argue that AE isn’t built like an Olympic weight lifter? So if he’s built like that and 20 years old is doesn’t matter because one 16 year old from Tucson might be just as strong 

weird to brag about your English degree and reading comprehension skills while arguing anonymously with strangers on a wrestling forum lol and at the same time misrepresenting the whole point i was making. 

I do not have access to Echemendia's birth certificate, passport or transcripts, so I have no idea what are the issues you're claiming here. You're posting here as if you're an insider and have viewed these documents yourself.

You keep defaulting to his opponents being 16-years-old. What about 17-, 18-, and 19-year-olds he faced? By your logic, they're all stronger than the 16-year-olds you keep harping on about. Were the boys older than 16 not allowed to compete, but somehow the IAI allowed some "20-year-old" Cuban refugee in for $#!+$ and giggles?

You're upset because you do not know how to support your argument with any facts whatsoever, so here you are changing the topic. Stop posting in this thread, dude. You're embarrassing yourself each and every time you do.

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4 minutes ago, Tofurky said:

I do not have access to Echemendia's birth certificate, passport or transcripts, so I have no idea what are the issues you're claiming here. You're posting here as if you're an insider and have viewed these documents yourself.

You keep defaulting to his opponents being 16-years-old. What about 17-, 18-, and 19-year-olds he faced? By your logic, they're all stronger than the 16-year-olds you keep harping on about. Were the boys older than 16 not allowed to compete, but somehow the IAI allowed some "20-year-old" Cuban refugee in for $#!+$ and giggles?

You're upset because you do not know how to support your argument with any facts whatsoever, so here you are changing the topic. Stop posting in this thread, dude. You're embarrassing yourself each and every time you do.

He is more than likely not 20 years old.  I don't think that Ryan even knows how old he really is. 

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13 minutes ago, TripNSweep said:

He is more than likely not 20 years old.  I don't think that Ryan even knows how old he really is. 

Hey, Trip, great to see you here.

Does anyone have visual proof of this young man's age or not?

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1 hour ago, Antitroll2828 said:

The whole point about his age is his struggled against high school kids in Arizona with his mat wrestling, and a 20 year old is a lot more physically matured then a 16 yr old, so with advantage in strength still struggling like that doesn’t bode well for when he faces the elite of the elite on the mat wrestling in the big ten week after week. 

Clearly you have no idea how many “freshman” wrestlers drive to practice in this country...

he could have been 20 on September 2nd 1999 and still been eligible for his state tourney and Fargo...

On top of the all too common ignorance that runs rampant here, there is too much whining and mewling in this thread...

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21 minutes ago, LJB said:

Clearly you have no idea how many “freshman” wrestlers drive to practice in this country...

he could have been 20 on September 2nd 1999 and still been eligible for his state tourney and Fargo...

On top of the all too common ignorance that runs rampant here, there is too much whining and mewling in this thread...

There is another thread devoted to AE's age that has some pretty convincing evidence that he is 22. 

And, of course, there is a difference between 19 and even 19-- that's one of the reason for redshirts.

 

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7 minutes ago, NJDan said:

There is another thread devoted to AE's age that has some pretty convincing evidence that he is 22. 

And, of course, there is a difference between 19 and even 19-- that's one of the reason for redshirts.

 

As much “compelling” evidence that he was totally legal for Fargo...

someonce once said “go kick rocks”

it seems applicable here...

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1 hour ago, NJDan said:

There is another thread devoted to AE's age that has some pretty convincing evidence that he is 22. 

And, of course, there is a difference between 19 and even 19-- that's one of the reason for redshirts.

 

I think he's older than that.  Again I don't hate the guy for coming here and following his dream, the problem I have is that it seems like it might have come at the expense of some wrestlers who shouldn't have had to wrestle somebody who was older like that.  Could you imagine if you sent a DI qualifier from any school to wrestle in high school and Fargo? 

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11 minutes ago, TripNSweep said:

I think he's older than that.  Again I don't hate the guy for coming here and following his dream, the problem I have is that it seems like it might have come at the expense of some wrestlers who shouldn't have had to wrestle somebody who was older like that.  Could you imagine if you sent a DI qualifier from any school to wrestle in high school and Fargo? 

What are you talking about?? You do realize you could go wrestle anywhere right now at your age as long as you haven’t already burned your college eligibility in having 5 years to play 4.... that’s even if your 50 years old. 
 

Echemendia was well known coming out of Cuba, he didn’t take away someone’s dreams because he wrestled a state tournament in Arizona for a year. He was finding a place to wrestle regardless. And his age is irrelevant in wrestling once these kids get past 18-19 years old. 
 

There are countless examples of wrestlers who have competed past 25 years old and not won a thing.... it’s not an advantage over a 20 year old like it would be for say a 22 year old wrestling a 15-16 year old kid whose not done developing.

If anyone has a problem with Echemendia’ age competing then they should also now with Kemmerer, Cassar, Tanner Hall, and some guys from the recent past like Downey or like that 174 from Penn State who was like 25 years old his senior year. (Matt Brown)

Edited by Aviator12

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2 minutes ago, Aviator12 said:

What are you talking about?? You do realize you could go wrestle anywhere right now at your age as long as you haven’t already burned your college eligibility in having 5 years to play 4.... that’s even if your 50 years old. 
 

Echemendia was well known coming out of Cuba, he didn’t take away someone’s dreams because he wrestled a state tournament in Arizona for a year. He was finding a place to wrestle regardless. And his age is irrelevant in wrestling once these kids get past 18-19 years old. 
 

There are countless examples of wrestlers who have competed past 25 years old and not won a thing.... it’s not an advantage over a 20 year old like it would be for say a 22 year old wrestling a 15-16 year old kid whose not done developing.

If anyone has a problem with Echemendia’ age competing then they should also now with Kemmerer, Cassar, Tanner Hall, and some guys from the recent past like Downey or like that 174 from Penn State who was like 27 years old his senior year.

I'm talking about him winning state in Arizona and winning Fargo.  

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2 minutes ago, Cradle1 said:

Just one question, if he really was 20 something years old isn’t likely we would have a record of him competing at the UWW junior level or even the senior level already?

Cuba rarely sends anyone overseas to compete due to finances. They go to worlds, Pan Ams and Olympics. They compete at Perro Celado and Granma, but other than that they rarely show up elsewhere. I'd guess part of that also is because they're worried that their wrestlers will defect, which has happened pretty often. Romero,  Chamizo, Rodriguez, Wilson, Villa, and a couple others.  I'm not surprised honestly, but I did look at the Cerro Pelado results for a few years and didn't see him listed as competing in that at all.  Yet I heard about how he supposedly beat Shields from ASU by tech fall, but I saw him getting worked badly by non qualifier Crooks in practice.  He's got good skills but he's going to get a very rude lesson on what wrestling in college is like.  

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21 minutes ago, TripNSweep said:

Cuba rarely sends anyone overseas to compete ....

Cuba being an island, wouldn't anywhere they send folks off the island be technically considered "overseas?"  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Did a track search on echemendia and I see he took it on the chin against chance fry in the fall of his senior year.  Fry was ranked #7 in juco rankings this year.  Highly doubt he’s beating Sasso.

He also lost to Terrell barraclough at Rocky mountain nationals shortly after his senior year.  Barraclough went 18-4 at opens for penn state this year. Not a terrible loss but it shows that his Dominance doesn’t automatically extend to folkstyle .

Edited by Cradle1

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3 hours ago, TripNSweep said:

I think he's older than that.  Again I don't hate the guy for coming here and following his dream, the problem I have is that it seems like it might have come at the expense of some wrestlers who shouldn't have had to wrestle somebody who was older like that.  Could you imagine if you sent a DI qualifier from any school to wrestle in high school and Fargo? 

This is literally the exact point I was trying to make, like I don’t blame him at all and won’t root against him for no reason, but it seems likely he probably screwed some kids over in the process 

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3 hours ago, Aviator12 said:

What are you talking about?? You do realize you could go wrestle anywhere right now at your age as long as you haven’t already burned your college eligibility in having 5 years to play 4.... that’s even if your 50 years old. 
 

Echemendia was well known coming out of Cuba, he didn’t take away someone’s dreams because he wrestled a state tournament in Arizona for a year. He was finding a place to wrestle regardless. And his age is irrelevant in wrestling once these kids get past 18-19 years old. 
 

There are countless examples of wrestlers who have competed past 25 years old and not won a thing.... it’s not an advantage over a 20 year old like it would be for say a 22 year old wrestling a 15-16 year old kid whose not done developing.

If anyone has a problem with Echemendia’ age competing then they should also now with Kemmerer, Cassar, Tanner Hall, and some guys from the recent past like Downey or like that 174 from Penn State who was like 25 years old his senior year. (Matt Brown)

Cassar literally turned 24 in March he’s not that old and I don’t believe Kemerer is Either and the other guys went to high school then religious missions, you are comparing apples to oranges. No one here as far as I can tell has said his age means anything going forward ,which you keep arguing for no reason. Just saying he was probably 20 wrestling teenagers which isn’t fair  ,you can keep denying age doesn’t make a huge physical difference that’s fine

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1 hour ago, Cradle1 said:

Did a track search on echemendia and I see he took it on the chin against chance fry in the fall of his senior year.  Fry was ranked #7 in juco rankings this year.  Highly doubt he’s beating Sasso.

He also lost to Terrell barraclough at Rocky mountain nationals shortly after his senior year.  Barraclough went 18-4 at opens for penn state this year. Not a terrible loss but it shows that his Dominance doesn’t automatically extend to folkstyle .

This and him barely beating Arizona high school kids doesn't make me think he's going to be that dominant right away.  If you're getting turned by kids in high school who are good in Arizona, I'd shudder to think what would happen if somebody from PA who was a hammer on top got him.  He might be better in neutral, but if somebody who rides hard like Fleming or someone who likes to put that squeeze on people got him, it would turn ugly in a hurry. 

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