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I seriously think Ruth could have gone up to 197 and won.

Ya know...I think I agree with this statement. No real way of knowing for sure but with it being a real possibility, putting Ruth in the p4p conversation isn't so dumb as some have suggested. I can't remember, did Ruth bump up from 174 this year to get Matt Brown in the lineup? Could he have gone 174 if Cael needed him there? If so, I honestly feel he would have dominated 174 as well and in my opinion could have made a strong run at a third weight (197) if not winning the title there as well. If that's the case, no doubt Ruth belongs in the conversation. Anyone in the know have any idea if Ruth and Q go at it in practice and if so how well does Ruth hang? If there's a good chance of him beating Q then without a doubt you have to strongly consider Ruth as the best p4p.

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I seriously think Ruth could have gone up to 197 and won.

Ya know...I think I agree with this statement. No real way of knowing for sure but with it being a real possibility, putting Ruth in the p4p conversation isn't so dumb as some have suggested. I can't remember, did Ruth bump up from 174 this year to get Matt Brown in the lineup? Could he have gone 174 if Cael needed him there? If so, I honestly feel he would have dominated 174 and in my opinion could have made a strong run at a third weight (197) if not winning the title there as well. If that's the case, no doubt Ruth belongs in the conversation. Anyone in the know have any idea if Ruth and Q go at it in practice and if so how well does Ruth hang? If there's a good chance of him beating Q then without a doubt you have to strongly consider Ruth as the best p4p.

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There is a way better chance of Dake winning174 than Ruth winning 197.
Would you say that if you include Ruth at 174 as well? Did he not bump up so Penn State could get Matt Brown in the lineup?

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There is a way better chance of Dake winning174 than Ruth winning 197.

 

Why? Q couldn't beat Bosak. Ruth beat him multiples times. Easy.

Because we all know Q isn't the least bit better this year than he was last year...

 

Also, both Kilgore and Wilps would be interesting matchups for Ruth.

Nobody at 174 would be able to make a match with Dake the least bit interesting (dual meaning intended)

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There is a way better chance of Dake winning174 than Ruth winning 197.

Truth. Dake would control all the top 174 lbers without much of a problem.

I guess I'm wondering if Ruth bumped up to get Matt Brown in the lineup or if he had to because he couldn't make the 174 lb weight class. If Ruth could have easily made 174 this year then I'd probably disagree with ya'll. I think Dake would have more trouble winning a title at 174 (that includes Ruth) than Ruth winning the title at 197. Yes..purely speculation...I know..

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There is a way better chance of Dake winning174 than Ruth winning 197.

Truth. Dake would control all the top 174 lbers without much of a problem.

I guess I'm wondering if Ruth bumped up to get Matt Brown in the lineup or if he had to because he couldn't make the 174 lb weight class. If Ruth could have easily made 174 this year then I'd probably disagree with ya'll. I think Dake would have more trouble winning a title at 174 (that includes Ruth) than Ruth winning the title at 197. Yes..purely speculation...I know..

From what I understand, Ruth can't make 174 anymore. I heard Ruth got too big for 174 and that forced Q to bump up as he couldn't beat Ruth. Q certainly grew into a full sized 197 pounder though, and I hear Ruth and Q went back and forth in the practice room this year.I think Brown breaking into the lineup was a fortunate byproduct more than anything else.

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There is a way better chance of Dake winning174 than Ruth winning 197.

 

Why? Q couldn't beat Bosak. Ruth beat him multiples times. Easy.

Because we all know Q isn't the least bit better this year than he was last year...

 

Also, both Kilgore and Wilps would be interesting matchups for Ruth.

Nobody at 174 would be able to make a match with Taylor the least bit interesting (dual meaning intended)

 

We all know Q got at least a bit better. You forgot to add that while Q got better, so did Ed Ruth.

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From what I understand, Ruth can't make 174 anymore. I heard Ruth got too big for 174 and that forced Q to bump up as he couldn't beat Ruth. Q certainly grew into a full sized 197 pounder though, and I hear Ruth and Q went back and forth in the practice room this year.I think Brown breaking into the lineup was a fortunate byproduct more than anything else.

Yeah..I'll trust your knowledge on Ruth. Like I said..I just don't know if he could have gone 174 or not. Either way, if an 184 lb Ruth can get the best of the 197 lb. national champion in the room, then you have to at least consider him in the best P4P conversation.

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Why? Q couldn't beat Bosak. Ruth beat him multiples times. Easy.

Because we all know Q isn't the least bit better this year than he was last year...

 

Also, both Kilgore and Wilps would be interesting matchups for Ruth.

Nobody at 174 would be able to make a match with Taylor the least bit interesting (dual meaning intended)

 

We all know Q got at least a bit better. You forgot to add that while Q got better, so did Ed Ruth.

Ruth has gotten better since he beat Bosak? that was like a week ago.

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Ruth stated many times in many interviews that he was begging to go up. Q also was ready to go up and as far as the team goes, Brown was obviously ready to fill in and make the team better.
He was begging to move up? Does this mean he could go 174 but no longer wanted to cut weight?

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Yes, I am sure Ruth could have made 174, with the same sacrifice that McD used to make 125 as an example. But many have proven this year that drastic cuts are not always the best for the individual or the team.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Dake have more pins than Ruth?

 

Taylor and Caldwell are significantly better than Bosak and Hamlin. Significantly.

 

Relative "dominance" shouldn't be a factor when it comes to Dake. See: Taylor, David.

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Ruth has gotten better since he beat Bosak? that was like a week ago.

 

What are you talking about, lol?

 

You mentioned Q got better from last year, and that was the same time frame I was referring to with Ruth.

You used the fact that Ruth did better than Q against Bosak as proof that Ruth would win 197. That's comparing Ruth of this year to Q of last year:

 

 

There is a way better chance of Dake winning174 than Ruth winning 197.

 

Why? Q couldn't beat Bosak. Ruth beat him multiples times. Easy.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Dake have more pins than Ruth?

 

Taylor and Caldwell are significantly better than Bosak and Hamlin. Significantly.

 

Relative "dominance" shouldn't be a factor when it comes to Dake. See: Taylor, David.

Well said. Although I wouldn't say Caldwell is significantly better than Hamlin and Bosak. He is on their level though. Taylor is lightyears ahead of all three of them.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Dake have more pins than Ruth?

 

Taylor and Caldwell are significantly better than Bosak and Hamlin. Significantly.

 

Relative "dominance" shouldn't be a factor when it comes to Dake. See: Taylor, David.

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but Iowa, Illinois and Ohio State is a tougher conference schedule than Bucknell, Binghampton and Brown. Mark it down that Ruth would have many more pins than he currently does with that schedule as well.

 

And yes, Taylor is significantly better, but not Caldwell. Not even close. Didn't Caldwell lose to a kid from Bucknell? I'm not even sure his name.

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You used the fact that Ruth did better than Q against Bosak as proof that Ruth would win 197. That's comparing Ruth of this year to Q of last year:

 

You're confusing things. It's simple.

 

Q got better than he was last year.

So did Bosak.

So did Ruth.

 

A better Ruth beat a better Bosak. Yes, Q got better to, but it's not certain he got better enough to beat Bosak. Also remember how convincing Ruths wins were. There was never any doubt in his matches. Steinhouse also gave Q fits. So did Hamiln.

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You used the fact that Ruth did better than Q against Bosak as proof that Ruth would win 197. That's comparing Ruth of this year to Q of last year:

 

You're confusing things. It's simple.

 

Q got better than he was last year.

So did Bosak.

So did Ruth.

 

A better Ruth beat a better Bosak. Yes, Q got better to, but it's not certain he got better enough to beat Bosak. Also remember how convincing Ruths wins were. There was never any doubt in his matches. Steinhouse also gave Q fits. So did Hamiln.

Tbh, I might say Bosak got worse. Remember he was battling staph for most of the year and couldn't really train. The difference between those guys and Q is that Q is SUBSTANTIALLY better than he was last year and doing it at a higher weight class to boot. Q's results from last year really mean nothing at this point.

 

going from the 6 seed at 184 to having an undefeated season at 197 is a pretty big improvement.

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2010: Hamlin DNP ( 2 and BBQ) at NCAAs, Caldwell 5th

2011: Both were runner-up, though Caldwell lost to Burroughs and had a win over Howe

2012: Caldwell redshirt but made it to semi-finals of the Olympics trials (lost 1-0, 1-0 to Howe). Hamlin 4th at NCAA's, lost to Appalachian State guy

 

You can definitely argue Caldwell over Hamlin. Taylor vs Bosak isn't remotely close.

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