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4xAA(1x Finalist) or 1xAA(NCAA Champ)?

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Which would you prefer being?  Which is more impressive?  If you were a recruit, which would hold more weight?  As a coach, what would you prefer?

I personally like the fact that you were achieving at a high level every season.  Still, being a Champ is the highest accomplishment possible.  

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1X champ without a doubt.  To get your hand raised on the biggest stage is what everyone dreams about and trains so hard for.

Give me a flash of brilliance over consistent accomplsihments, but ultimately fallig short.

I will add if the championship was a freshman and then 0X AA after that it would be a different story.

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1x champ, but as said above it would be much better to go out on top as a senior than to peak early on and be a fizzle.

A bit of a side-tangent question - has there been a 3 or 4x finalist with no titles?

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11 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

1x champ, but as said above it would be much better to go out on top as a senior than to peak early on and be a fizzle.

A bit of a side-tangent question - has there been a 3 or 4x finalist with no titles?

I think Gerry Abas was a 3 time runner up, 4th, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd if I remember right

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16 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

1x champ, but as said above it would be much better to go out on top as a senior than to peak early on and be a fizzle.

A bit of a side-tangent question - has there been a 3 or 4x finalist with no titles?

There was one year when Duane Goldman was a 3X finalist with no titles

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I'd rather be a 1 time champ than a 4 time finalist. Think of your mindset: if you are a 4 time finalist you probably regard yourself as something of a failure, having come so close and never making it. If you are a 1 time champ, ideally your last year, your last memories of college wrestling will be knowing what it's like to go out on top.

No comparison, from an ego-standpoint.

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NCAA Champion looks great on a resume. Forever. 99% of the people don't know what an NCAA All-American even is. Nor would they care that you did not AA in other years.

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Not that they are at all equal but............ when I was in HS in Wash St. (when HS was 10-11 12) I was 2nd/10... 2nd/11.... going into my senior year and when I made the finals my senior year the pressure within myself was HUGE. I did not want to go 2/2/2. I was wrestling the only returning state champion in the finals. Who happened to beat a team mate the year before. I won and a tremendous relief came over me.

With that in mind I would come down on the side of a one time champ over losing in the finals every year.

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7 hours ago, BadgerMon said:

Bob Fehrs of Michigan was a three time finalist as well as a three time Big Ten champion. His losses were to the same man from Lehigh- Mike Caruso.

https://henryehooper.blog/witness-post-mike-caruso/

 

Chad Zaputil was a three-time Big Ten champion, a three-time NCAA tournament finalist and a three-time All-American. He had a career record of 109-8-1 and helped the University of Iowa win three NCAA championships in 1991, 1992 and 1993. Chad was a two-time state champion and a three-time state finalist at Centerville High School in Centerville, Iowa.

COLIN KILRAIN, Lehigh ’82:  in June, 2014 Navy Rear Admiral Colin Kilrain was inducted into the National Wrestling Hall of Fame in the category of career achievement. He’s also one of the greatest wrestlers so inducted. Kilrain (NCAA 3,3,3) defeated three Olympic champions (John Peterson, Ed and Lou Banach), one future World Champion (Bill Scherr) plus NCAA titlist Pete Bush. He beat Bush, 11-1, in a dual at Iowa two months before an upset fall to the Hawkeye in the NCAA semi-finals. Kilrain was twice NCAA #1 seed and his last three years’ record was 70-4. One of four EIWA wrestlers who’ve won titles at three weights, Colin won four finals by 7-1; 9-0; 15-3 and WBF vs. rivals with 11 league finals. Kilrain was named OW as senior and claimed the Fletcher Award for career points.

Bart Chelesvig was a three-time Big Ten runner-up as a wrestler at the University of Iowa, finishing in third place at the NCAA Division I Championships at 167 pounds (1990) and twice at 177 pounds (1991, 1992).  Chelesvig served as head assistant wrestling coach at the University of Wisconsin from 1993-2009, assisting with office operations, organizing fundraising and outreach opportunities and working in all training, recruiting and scheduling aspects. He helped develop and coach 31 All-Americans during his tenure with the Badgers.

JaMarr Billman competed for two seasons at Lock Haven University, where he complied a 61-7 record and earned All-America honors twice by finishing fifth at 149 pounds at the NCAA championships in 2001 and 2002. Billman also won the Eastern Wrestling League and Pennsylvania State Athletic Conference championships at Lock Haven in 2001 and 2002.  Billman transferred to Lock Haven from Penn State, where he compiled a 56-6 record. He earned All-America honors after placing fifth at 142 pounds at the NCAA championships as a true freshman in 1998. 

Rande Stottlemyer's strong ties and success in the sport of wrestling date back to his high school career at Hickory High School in nearby Hermitage, Pa., where he was a PIAA state runner-up and two-time Junior National Freestyle wrestling champion.  Following a stellar scholastic career at Hickory, Stottlemyer enrolled at the University of Pittsburgh, where he became a three-time NCAA All-American, achieving that level of distinction only one year before becoming a full-time assistant coach to then Panther wrestling coach Dave Adams. As a collegian, Stottlemyer put together a record of 68-16-2, won one EWL title and served as team captain for each of his varsity seasons.

Your candidates for Consistency of being the Champion's Thorn goes to...

Name College AA Count Place From To
Bob Fehrs Michigan 3 2 1965 1967
Chad Zaputil Iowa 3 2 1991 1993
Colin Kilrain Lehigh 3 3 1980 1982
Bart Chelesvig Iowa 3 3 1990 1992
JaMarr Billman Lock Haven 3 5 1998 2002
Rande Stottlemyer Pittsburgh 3 6 1974 1978
Edited by jross
added more people

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10 hours ago, Jim L said:

1X champ without a doubt.  To get your hand raised on the biggest stage is what everyone dreams about and trains so hard for.

Give me a flash of brilliance over consistent accomplsihments, but ultimately fallig short.

I will add if the championship was a freshman and then 0X AA after that it would be a different story.

Agree 100%!

How about:

4x finalist (0 titles) at 4 different weight classes

OR

1x AA (NCAA Champ) and the Hodge trophy as a TF, but nothing else while competing at the same weight class through college?

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15 minutes ago, ludwigdmd said:

How many 1-time champs were Freshmen or RS Fr?

Two come to mind —

Tomasello

Tsirtis

 

Would most argue their careers were disappointing?

Myles Martin.   By their eyes maybe (not so much tsirtsis due to everything that happened during his college career) by any fan absolutely not.

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2 hours ago, ludwigdmd said:

How many 1-time champs were Freshmen or RS Fr?

Listed are wrestlers whose first AA was a national championship, that have only one championship, and that later AAed again.  I did not research what class (freshman, etc.) they won their first championship.

Wrestler College 1 Champ 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 AA Count First AA Last AA
Mark Hall Penn State 1   2             3 2017 2019
Myles Martin Ohio State 1 Frosh 1 1   1       4 2016 2019
Nathan Tomasello Ohio State 1 Frosh   3           4 2015 2018
Jason Tsirtsis Northwestern 1     1       1   3 2014 2018
Jarrod King Edinboro 1     1           2 2009 2010
Mark Ellis Missouri 1           1     2 2009 2010
Paul Donahoe Nebraska 1   1 1           3 2007 2009
Dustin Schlatter Minnesota 1     1       1   3 2006 2008
Doug Schwab Iowa 1   1 1           3 1999 2001
Kirk White Boise State 1         1 1     3 1999 2001
Ernest Benion Illinois 1   1 1           3 1995 1997
Tolly Thompson Nebraska 1     2           3 1995 1997
Brad Penrith Iowa 1   2             3 1986 1988
Matt Reiss North Carolina State 1               1 2 1980 1981
Brad Smith Iowa 1       1         2 1976 1976
Evan Johnson Minnesota 1   1             2 1976 1977
Jim Bennett Yale 1       1         2 1975 1976
Mike Lieberman Lehigh 1     1           2 1975 1976
Bill Simpson Clarion 1         1       2 1973 1974
Don Rohn Clarion 1     1     1     3 1973 1976
Larry Owings Washington 1   2             3 1970 1972
Bill Stuart Lehigh 1     1           2 1965 1966
Tadaaki Hatta Oklahoma State 1     1           2 1965 1966
Jerry Stanley Oklahoma 1     1           2 1964 1966
Mike Sager Oklahoma 1   1     1       3 1964 1966
Phil Kinyon Oklahoma State 1   2             3 1961 1963
Edited by jross
sorted by year

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15 hours ago, jchapman said:

How about NC and Hodge true freshman year, but then flunk out of school and never compete again and have no college degree Vs 8th place Senior year and graduate college.

Which school? :D

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19 hours ago, ludwigdmd said:

How many 1-time champs were Freshmen or RS Fr?

Two come to mind —

Tomasello

Tsirtis

 

Would most argue their careers were disappointing?

Disappointment is relative. If a wrestler was projected to be a 4x champ and ends up only winning 1 title would you consider that a disappontment relative to expectations?

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