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irani

Best wrestlers of all time by weight class

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15 minutes ago, irani said:

TD, is DT (Dan Taylor) when you have dyslexia while typing :)

Ok lol.

 

Taylor has been on an incredible run and I do favour him to win the gold if the Olympics goes ahead next year. But in my opinion he got this good way too late in his career to seriously be in contention for any GOAT talk. He is 29 with 1 world gold. I can realistically see him winning 1 or 2 more golds. Would be a great career but there are a lot of those guys if you look through the records that are never mentioned as some of the best ever in their weight classes. Maybe just 1 more gold if they don't do a world championships this year (which I read they are considering in November or December) and his next chance is the Olympics in summer of 2021. I doubt he will be a factor in 2024. 

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I agree with what you wrote, but if Taylor wins olympic gold, and 2-3 more world championhsips, In my book that is enough to make the goat in this particular weight class.  Who else has done better in this weight class?

Edited by irani

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Just now, irani said:

I agree with what you wrote, but if Taylor wins olympic gold, and 2-3 morld championhsips, In my book that is enough to make the goat in this particular weight class.  Who else has done better in this weight class?

 

lets say he wins the Olympics and one more world gold. That gives him 3 world golds which is the same amount Sadulaev won at 86. Difference being Sadulaev never lost as a senior or even had a close match while we have seen Taylor lose and even lose one sided matches.I think at that point Sadulaev would still pretty comfortably be above him as he was a lot more dominant. 

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1 minute ago, Shiraz123 said:

 

lets say he wins the Olympics and one more world gold. That gives him 3 world golds which is the same amount Sadulaev won at 86. Difference being Sadulaev never lost as a senior or even had a close match while we have seen Taylor lose and even lose one sided matches.I think at that point Sadulaev would still pretty comfortably be above him as he was a lot more dominant. 

yes, that is why I stated that he has to win the olympics and 2-3 more worlds.  Otherwise Sadulaev is the best option

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1 minute ago, irani said:

yes, that is why I stated that he has to win the olympics and 2-3 more worlds.  Otherwise Sadulaev is the best option

I see, I thought you counted the Olympics and him winning 1 more world gold as 2.  I agree if he did win the Olympics AND won 2 or 3 more world golds on top of that you could consider him the best in the 80s range but I find that very unlikely at his age. 

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3 hours ago, irani said:

I am going to hold out for  DT and Yazdani, I hope to crown one of them in 3-4 years.

It looks it will be DT, but i am hoping for Yazdani

Well then I have to hope it's DT.  That Beat the Street freak accident sure put an abrupt halt to training/competing for him.

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26 minutes ago, fadzaev2 said:

Well then I have to hope it's DT.  That Beat the Street freak accident sure put an abrupt halt to training/competing for him.

Based on their last two match, DT is the overwhelming favorite over Yazdani

Edited by irani

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33 minutes ago, ShakaAloha said:

Sadulaev needs to be on your list somewhere

That is fair, however, I am not moving Ted Tediashvili in 90, or Yarygin in 100, so we can put Sadulaev in 86 as a placeholder, but in 86 his accomplishments are nowhere near all the other ones on my list.  For some reason, noone in that weght class dominated the way someone did in other weight classes.  The two people who had potential to domiante Tediashvili and Sadulaev, did not stick around long enough to estalbish themselves as the GOAT, at least not in my opinion

Edited by irani

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3 hours ago, irani said:

That is fair, however, I am not moving Ted Tediashvili in 90, or Yarygin in 100, so we can put Sadulaev in 86 as a placeholder, but in 86 his accomplishments are nowhere near all the other ones on my list.  For some reason, noone in that weght class dominated the way someone did in other weight classes.  The two people who had potential to domiante Tediashvili and Sadulaev, did not stick around long enough to estalbish themselves as the GOAT, at least not in my opinion

If Sadulaev wins gold over Sharifov and Cox/Snyder at the next Olympics, he will have at least matched Tediashivli's accomplishments.  I haven't seen Tediashvili wrestle, but who do you think would win between him and Sadulaev if they wrestled each other in their primes?

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21 minutes ago, ShakaAloha said:

If Sadulaev wins gold over Sharifov and Cox/Snyder at the next Olympics, he will have at least matched Tediashivli's accomplishments.  I haven't seen Tediashvili wrestle, but who do you think would win between him and Sadulaev if they wrestled each other in their primes?

Here is a video of Tediashibili against the defending olympic champion, Ben peterson in 1976 .  Ben peterson is a legend in his own right.  I pick Teiashivili over Sadulaev because to my knowledge Tedishivili never lost in his prime, while Sadulev did.

 

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On 5/19/2020 at 6:20 PM, ShakaAloha said:

@irani Thanks for sharing the video!  I am a huge Peterson fan; went to a camp he and his brother John put on some years ago. 

That must have been some camp!

Edited by irani

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Tediashvili only generally showed a couple different moves but he was nearly unstoppable with them. Kind of a standing high crotch/snag single. It was interesting that he did it to both sides (although only once to the left leg). But what I remember him best for is if he got you in a front head and arm- it was a td. I think I counted 7 (might have been 6) although the last one was just after the buzzer. If (sorry When) you put a hand on the mat he was behind you. I also remember from other matches if you were in close and put your head slightly bent down on his chest he would also get behind.

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10 hours ago, irani said:

Based on their last two match, DT is the overwhelming favorite over Yazdani

Sir, I being a very fervent US fan, am going to disagree with you a little. In both of those matches DT had to come from behind. Yes, I know conditioning is a part of it, but I think the gap between the 2 is almost non-existent. In fact, one could say Yaz is a a better "wrestler" and I am a huge DT fan

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16 hours ago, ConnorsDad said:

Sir, I being a very fervent US fan, am going to disagree with you a little. In both of those matches DT had to come from behind. Yes, I know conditioning is a part of it, but I think the gap between the 2 is almost non-existent. In fact, one could say Yaz is a a better "wrestler" and I am a huge DT fan

The Dt /yazdani match is a very interesting one, and a good study in strategy and adjustments.

When Yazdani is not gased, he man handles DT, DT does not have a chnace,  and Yazdani can get leads of 6-0 in a couple of minutes.

When Yazdani is gased, he does not have a chance.

yazdani prides himself in finishing all his match before regulation time.  His approach of overwhelming and teching his opponents works well against most wrestlers, but not DT.

Yazdani needs to change his strategy to have a shot against DT.  Interestingly enough, at home, against his biggest rival, he wrestles a much more measured match, does not try to tech him, and always wins.

Yazdani needs work on his endurance/fitness, and also to wrestle a measured and controlled match against DT, and if he has gas left in the tank, go for his uncontrollable attack style the last 1-2 minutes.

Let's see if Yazdani and his coaches are smart enough to adjust.  

Edited by irani

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37 minutes ago, irani said:

The Dt /yazdani match is a very interesting one, and a good study in strategy and adjustments.

When Yazdani is not gased, he man handles DT, DT does not have a chnace,  and Yazdani can get leads of 6-0 in a couple of minutes.

When Yazdani is gased, he does not have a chance.

yazdani prices himself in finishing all his match before regulation time.  His approach of overwhelming and techning his opponents works well against most wrestlers, but not DT.

Yazdani needs to change his strategy to have a shot against DT.  Interestingly enough, at home, against his biggest rival, he wrestles a much more measured match, does not try to tech him, and always wins.

Yazdani needs work on his endurance/fitness, and also to wrestle a measured and controlled match against DT, and if he has gas left in the tank, go for his uncontrollable attack style the last 1-2 minutes.

Let's see if Yazdani and his coaches are smart enough to adjust.  

So you are saying he needs to wrestle more like a fox than a lion?  I agree with this assessment!

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59 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

So you are saying he needs to wrestle more like a fox than a lion?  I agree with this assessment!

In the first two matches, Yazdani started like a lion, and finished like a fish.

I am saying he should start like a fox, and finish like a lion

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7 hours ago, irani said:

In the first two matches, Yazdani started like a lion, and finished like a fish.

I am saying he should start like a fox, and finish like a lion

@irani Who are you picking if Taylor and Yazdani meet in the Olympics? 

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1 minute ago, ShakaAloha said:

@irani Who are you picking if Taylor and Yazdani meet in the Olympics? 

My mind says Taylor, my heart say Yazdani.

Three key questions

  1. Has Yazdani fully recovered from his surgery?
  2. Has DT fully recovered from his injurty (based on his last outing, I think we know the answer :) )?
  3. Will Yazdani try a different strategy against DT?

If Yazdani tries the same approach, then 99% DT

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On 5/17/2020 at 4:35 PM, irani said:

Edit, based on some great feedback, I have modified the original post to list some of the contenders

 

Who would you pick as the best wrestlers of all time for each weight class?

I am going to go with the old olympics weight classes

48 Between Ebrahim Javadi , .Roman Dmitriev and Sergey Kornilayev.  Alll crushed their weight class, two failed to win at the olympics, in case of Kornilayev at home.  I will go with Javadi, mostly because I am bias :)

52 Jordanov, Bulgaria or Anatoly Beloglazov, close call, I will go with Jordanov

57 - Sergei Beloglazov (Russia) and Yojiro Uetake are the two contenders, and I am picking Berloglazov

63 - John smith USA, Osamu Watanabe. Mustafa Dağıstanlı are great contenders, but I am going with John Smith

68 - have to decided between Habibi , Iran, Movahed, Iran, Gable USA and Fadzayev Uzbekistan, this is very hard, but I will go with Fadzayev

74 -  Tough one between  Jordan Burroughs and Buvaisar Saitiev, but I think I will have to go with Satiev (Russia)

82 - Many good choices, but hard to pick one.  Tediashvili , Kevin Jackson, Mehdizadeh and Sadulaev would be candidates, but none of them crushed it long enough like the other weight classes.  Perhaps if either DT or Hassan Yazadani wiln the olympics and a few follow up world championships, they will get this one

90- Levan Tediashvili (Georgia), Khadarzev, Makharbek , and Rasul Khadem are three of the all time best, but I am going with Tediashvilli 

100 - Yarygin (Russia) is the winner in my book, Khadzhimurat Gatsalov and  Leri Khabelov get   honorable mentions

superheavy weight -  Medved (Russia)

So, I end up with 4 from Russia, 1 each from USA, Iran,  Bulgaria, Georgia and uzbekistan and of course one undecided

Who would you put in each weight class?

 

 

Comments:

68kg I think Fadzaev was in a class by himself. Eight golds. Only non gold was up a weight and a narrow defeat by Kenny Monday. And it was close.

90kg: Kharartsev was way better than Khadem in his prime even though he last to him after the Soviet Union broke up and he was getting older. I actually never saw Tadiashvilli. Weren't most of his medals at 90kg? I don't think he belongs in the 82kg category.

74kg I think you have to throw in Monday as a contender, in his prime. But all things considered Satiev's 9 gold medals I don't think it's a question.

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