Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Housebuye

Ohio State is vastly underrated

Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, Cradle1 said:

You’ve got a shot at Bono’s record.

Jokes aside... back in H.S. we had a 215lber who isn't decide to drop to 215 until midweek for the freestyle states tournament and had to cut a good 15-17lbs(he had power lifted at 242 and has missed the 220lb limit for the weigh class below by quite a hit the weekend before).

Saturday morning comes, and this kid was a brute style 215lber not a cardio machine, and he was hating his life. Had to cut the final 4 or 5 pounds morning of.

He steps on the scale to check about 20 minutes before final call and was exactly one pound over at 216.0.

His dad asks him if he needs to use the restroom and he was like 'I could try'

He ended up coming and weighing in with barely a moment to spare.

Kid weighed in at 213.something.  Dropped over two pounds.

He took a last second 2+ pound deucer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, nhs67 said:

Jokes aside... back in H.S. we had a 215lber who isn't decide to drop to 215 until midweek for the freestyle states tournament and had to cut a good 15-17lbs(he had power lifted at 242 and has missed the 220lb limit for the weigh class below by quite a hit the weekend before).

Saturday morning comes, and this kid was a brute style 215lber not a cardio machine, and he was hating his life. Had to cut the final 4 or 5 pounds morning of.

He steps on the scale to check about 20 minutes before final call and was exactly one pound over at 216.0.

His dad asks him if he needs to use the restroom and he was like 'I could try'

He ended up coming and weighing in with barely a moment to spare.

Kid weighed in at 213.something.  Dropped over two pounds.

He took a last second 2+ pound deucer.

And to think that this sport hasn’t achieved mainstream appeal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Boompa said:

Personally, I think they have been over rated the past few years regardless of their end of season finishes.

I think they are one of the top programs in danger of being passed over by other programs.

If they finished well at the end of the season how can you say they were overrated?  Are you saying that they did not consistently maintain the level during the season that they demonstrated at NCAA.  I would agree with that, but I credit that to the coaching staff/training to peak at the end of the season.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, balanceseeker said:

If they finished well at the end of the season how can you say they were overrated?  Are you saying that they did not consistently maintain the level during the season that they demonstrated at NCAA.  I would agree with that, but I credit that to the coaching staff/training to peak at the end of the season.  

I think most non-Ohio State fans here believe they would have only gotten 3-4 guys (Pletcher, Sasso, maybe Romero, and Moore) on the NCAA podium if the 2020 championships were wrestled.  For Ohio State, that is underachieving.  

Looking at the guys they have for 2021, I think only 3-4 wrestlers are projected to AA (Echemendia-if he wrestles, Sasso, Karchla, maybe Romero, maybe-Orndorff).  Sasso will probably improve from 2020, but they don't have the guaranteed finalists in Pletcher and Moore.  IMO, their team is trending downward.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems they seem to peak at the Big Ten tourney and underperform at NCAA’s.  There are many factors that also come into play obviously: officiating, bracket busters, just being “off” one of those 3 days, sickness, injury, but most of the top guys seem really sharp 2 weeks before.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Cradle1 said:

And to think that this sport hasn’t achieved mainstream appeal.

You saying football players and basketball players don't take dumpers?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Schuteandscore said:

It seems they seem to peak at the Big Ten tourney and underperform at NCAA’s.  There are many factors that also come into play obviously: officiating, bracket busters, just being “off” one of those 3 days, sickness, injury, but most of the top guys seem really sharp 2 weeks before.

Is this really true or just a matter of them being more suited for B1G success?

Looking at 2017-2018 when they won B1G's:

Tomasello B10 champ, NCAA 3rd (losing to Lee)

McKenna B10 champ, NCAA 3rd (no B10 wrestlers finished ahead of him)

Moore B10 champ, NCAA 4th (no B10 wrestlers finished ahead of him)

Snyder B10 champ, NCAA Champ

Pletcher B10 2nd (lost to Micic), NCAA 3rd (lost to Micic again who was only B10 wrestler ahead of him)

Micah B10 2nd (lost to Pantaleo), NCAA 6th (did lose to Berger in consi semis, this was the year Nolf MFF'd out of B10's)

Bo B10 3rd (lost to Amine), NCAA 5th (only behind Hall and Amine from B10)

Martin B10 2nd, NCAA 2nd (Nickal)


Yes, you can say Moore underperformed, but other than that the only guys that finished behind guys at NCAAs that they finished ahead of at B10's are Tomasello (Spencer Lee) and Micah Jordan, who lost in SV to Berger.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/28/2020 at 2:22 PM, ShakaAloha said:

IMO, their team is trending downward.  

Unfortunately, I can't shake the same feeling.  However, given the level of guys they had for about an 8 year period, it was probably inevitable.  It might take another 30 years to have two guys go through the program that come close to the accomplishments of Logan Stieber and Snyder.  And during that same era, you had Tomasello and Bo Jordan who were only a few matches short of being in the same league.  Tough to get recruits at their level into the room and even tougher to get them to follow through with results at the level they experienced over that stretch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Broomstick said:

Unfortunately, I can't shake the same feeling.  However, given the level of guys they had for about an 8 year period, it was probably inevitable.  It might take another 30 years to have two guys go through the program that come close to the accomplishments of Logan Stieber and Snyder.  And during that same era, you had Tomasello and Bo Jordan who were only a few matches short of being in the same league.  Tough to get recruits at their level into the room and even tougher to get them to follow through with results at the level they experienced over that stretch.

Great point. 15-20 years ago the team they have now would be considered a raging success.  Perspective is important.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Broomstick said:

Unfortunately, I can't shake the same feeling.  However, given the level of guys they had for about an 8 year period, it was probably inevitable.  It might take another 30 years to have two guys go through the program that come close to the accomplishments of Logan Stieber and Snyder.  And during that same era, you had Tomasello and Bo Jordan who were only a few matches short of being in the same league.  Tough to get recruits at their level into the room and even tougher to get them to follow through with results at the level they experienced over that stretch.

Obviously will never know what would’ve happened this year and he still needs 3 more years of results, but Sasso was a title contender as a freshman...  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/31/2020 at 8:37 AM, Broomstick said:

Unfortunately, I can't shake the same feeling.  However, given the level of guys they had for about an 8 year period, it was probably inevitable.  It might take another 30 years to have two guys go through the program that come close to the accomplishments of Logan Stieber and Snyder.  And during that same era, you had Tomasello and Bo Jordan who were only a few matches short of being in the same league.  Tough to get recruits at their level into the room and even tougher to get them to follow through with results at the level they experienced over that stretch.

Yet despite that they have had great success with Martin, McKenna, Micky J, Pletcher, Moore and others since that time.  Sasso, Romero, Karchla, Echemendia and others could be the next crop of Buckeye greats.  Saying tOSU fell off because they don't have a generational talent like Snyder or Stieber on the roster seems a little unfair.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, balanceseeker said:

Yet despite that they have had great success with Martin, McKenna, Micky J, Pletcher, Moore and others since that time.  Sasso, Romero, Karchla, Echemendia and others could be the next crop of Buckeye greats.  Saying tOSU fell off because they don't have a generational talent like Snyder or Stieber on the roster seems a little unfair.

 

I think most people are saying Ohio State has fallen off because (1) they are looking up at Iowa, Penn State, Cornell, Michigan, Nebraska, etc. in the team race for 2021, (2) they have no returning AA's and had the championships been wrestled, it is very possible that of the guys coming back in 2021, Sasso might be the only one who would have AA'd , (3) they only have a few title threats on their roster currently in Sasso, Karchla, and Echemendia, who are all unproven and frosh/sophomores, and (4) Kyle Snyder went to NLWC.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, ShakaAloha said:

I think most people are saying Ohio State has fallen off because (1) they are looking up at Iowa, Penn State, Cornell, Michigan, Nebraska, etc. in the team race for 2021, (2) they have no returning AA's and had the championships been wrestled, it is very possible that of the guys coming back in 2021, Sasso might be the only one who would have AA'd , (3) they only have a few title threats on their roster currently in Sasso, Karchla, and Echemendia, who are all unproven and frosh/sophomores, and (4) Kyle Snyder went to NLWC.  

Had NCAA been wrestled this year I think the Bucks would have taken 3rd with 4 AA (Moore, Pletcher, Sasso, Romero).  I guess that's falling off a little since they usually take 2nd but that's a pretty solid showing considering they had 5 first year starters and were replacing an incredible amount of points that graduated in the past two years.  Iowa and Penn State are loaded again next year but I'll wait and see if Ohio State is looking up at them them next year.  My hunch is Ohio State's young team takes some lumps at the beginning of next year but comes back and finishes in the top for at the NCAA tournament.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe FloWrestling missed something, but Ohio State isn't even listed in their top 20 for the 2020 recruiting rankings. I recall reading this a while back and being baffled how a team like tOSU couldn't place in the top 20. It's behind a pay-wall, so I copy and pasted the list below. Anyone know what that's about?

Rank Team Top 100 Recruits
1 Oklahoma State 6
2 Iowa 5
3 Missouri 4
4 Penn State 4
5 Cornell 5
6 Nebraska 4
7 North Carolina 5
8 North Carolina State 3
9 Virginia Tech 4
10 Lehigh 4
11 Michigan State 2
12 West Virginia 4
13 Purdue 2
14 Wisconsin 1
15 Rutgers 3
16 Michigan 2
17 Princeton 2
18 Northern Iowa 2
19 Minnesota 2
20 Oklahoma 2

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, backpack said:

Maybe FloWrestling missed something, but Ohio State isn't even listed in their top 20 for the 2020 recruiting rankings. I recall reading this a while back and being baffled how a team like tOSU couldn't place in the top 20. It's behind a pay-wall, so I copy and pasted the list below. Anyone know what that's about?

Rank Team Top 100 Recruits
1 Oklahoma State 6
2 Iowa 5
3 Missouri 4
4 Penn State 4
5 Cornell 5
6 Nebraska 4
7 North Carolina 5
8 North Carolina State 3
9 Virginia Tech 4
10 Lehigh 4
11 Michigan State 2
12 West Virginia 4
13 Purdue 2
14 Wisconsin 1
15 Rutgers 3
16 Michigan 2
17 Princeton 2
18 Northern Iowa 2
19 Minnesota 2
20 Oklahoma 2

 

 

It's cuz they have zero scholarship recruiting commitments for 2020 that I know of. I don't believe Bryce Hepner will receive any or if he does it will be a small amount.

In contrast they have a couple highly ranked commitments from Paddy Gallagher in the class 2021 and Seth Shumate for 2022

Edited by DocBZ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/26/2020 at 8:03 AM, Housebuye said:

FRL is out there saying Ohio State is unlike to make the podium. 
 

Ranking services have them around #10

Granted there are many excellent teams with much greater parity than we have seen in the last decade, but man Ohio State’s lineup could challenger even Iowa. 
  
125 - multiple solid options. Malik was coming into his own at the end of the season too, plus Koontz (multiple ranked 133 wins) 0 points in rankings up to 8 points

133 - if Decatur pans out like he should, he goes from untanked to AA points  0 points in rankings up to 8 points

141 - if Echemedia pans out... 0 points in rankings up to 20 points

149 - Sasso is ranked fairly. Title contender

157 - could be a hole, but Kinner is excellent. He’d be better at 141 or 149 but he can’t win those spots. Cleary is solid but won’t score points. Kinner could if he is big enough. His op game will do a lot of damage. If Smith or Karchla cut down, they are serious AA threats  

165 - title contender potentially? Karchla is most likely in this slot. They have 2 guys who can AA here. Potentially +20

174 - Romero was coming into his own last season and had a solid seed. He is clearly an AA threat and may be able to place as high as 4th

184 - you could see the potential in Rocky. He also came on strong at the end of the season, qualifying for NCAAs. Could AA if he keeps improving. +8

197 - Singletary was a R12ish type guy at heavyweight, weighing 220. At 197 he could very well AA. It is yet again a weak class. +10

285 - Tate starts the season ranked to AA and should live up to a 4-8 placement. 
  
Ohio State has a guy at every weight who could AA. All should qualify, and they have serious upside at 125, 133, 141 (could be biggest jump), 165 (huge potential), 184, and 197. They are in a similar position to Cornell next season. 
  
 

Karchla and Smith are definitely not bumping down to 157..... pretty much wherever Karchla decides to go he has that weight, he’s listed at 174, I think it’d be better for the team if he goes 165 so they don’t have a domino effect.... Decatur looked like he struggled to make 133, if he preps now for the cut I think he could eventually be pretty good for his explosiveness, if not Koontz did good at 133 last year.... also, I think Singletary will do really good this year at 197, he would have been a AA at an undersized HTW last year..... this tOSU team is really young, will be really good in a few yrs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/30/2020 at 12:33 AM, Kov88 said:

Karchla and Smith are definitely not bumping down to 157..... pretty much wherever Karchla decides to go he has that weight, he’s listed at 174, I think it’d be better for the team if he goes 165 so they don’t have a domino effect.... Decatur looked like he struggled to make 133, if he preps now for the cut I think he could eventually be pretty good for his explosiveness, if not Koontz did good at 133 last year.... also, I think Singletary will do really good this year at 197, he would have been a AA at an undersized HTW last year..... this tOSU team is really young, will be really good in a few yrs

koontz is not the answer at 133, Look at his wins they are against smaller division guys and backups at opens.  Singletary will flop at 197.  Every single Heavyweight who has ever cut to 197 has flopped so it’s guaranteed. tOsu has already tried this with look four different tweeners in the Tom Ryan era and they all either outright bombed or had  significantly worse results than at heavyweight.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/1/2020 at 10:29 PM, Cradle1 said:

koontz is not the answer at 133, Look at his wins they are against smaller division guys and backups at opens.  Singletary will flop at 197.  Every single Heavyweight who has ever cut to 197 has flopped so it’s guaranteed. tOsu has already tried this with look four different tweeners in the Tom Ryan era and they all either outright bombed or had  significantly worse results than at heavyweight.

 

 

Both statements you made are inaccurate.  Koontz wrestled at Cliff Keen and beat 2 seeded guys to make the semis.  Jarret Trombley of NC State ended up 20-9 and an NCAA qualifyer last year.  Josh Kramer of Arizona State was ranked in the top 15 at one point last year and had a decent seed at Vegas.  His performance fell off a bit at the end of the year (he lost to Decatur by a similar score that he lost to Koontz) but still a legit starter.  Regarding 285's cutting to 197 the only person I remember doing this is Kevin Snyder, and he performed slightly better at 197, but it was understood that he was depth at either weight.  The Bucks have done the opposite and attempted to grow 197's into mobile Heavyweights on numerous occasion.  Bergman, Corey Morrison, and Pete Capone were all examples of this with Bergman being the most successful obviously.

Edited by balanceseeker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/28/2020 at 2:22 PM, ShakaAloha said:

I think most non-Ohio State fans here believe they would have only gotten 3-4 guys (Pletcher, Sasso, maybe Romero, and Moore) on the NCAA podium if the 2020 championships were wrestled.  For Ohio State, that is underachieving.  

Looking at the guys they have for 2021, I think only 3-4 wrestlers are projected to AA (Echemendia-if he wrestles, Sasso, Karchla, maybe Romero, maybe-Orndorff).  Sasso will probably improve from 2020, but they don't have the guaranteed finalists in Pletcher and Moore.  IMO, their team is trending downward.  

All they need is 1 guy to jump levels. They have a history of doing that. 
  
They have a serious AA threat at 7 weights. 
 

the 3 weak spots:

125 - Malik 2 time qualifier. With a shallow 125 weight and some improvement, and AA showing is possible. We know he has the skill 

  
133 - jordan was a freshman. Most top 10 recruits AA, especially in the past few years. He could very well jump levels. 
  
157 -I know people think I’m nuts, but Kinner could do damage here if he can adjust to the weight. His skills on top are incredible 

  
Ohio State has less sure things, but this is very much a team that can place high. 80+ points is very possible

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Housebuye said:

All they need is 1 guy to jump levels. They have a history of doing that. 
  
They have a serious AA threat at 7 weights. 
 

the 3 weak spots:

125 - Malik 2 time qualifier. With a shallow 125 weight and some improvement, and AA showing is possible. We know he has the skill 

  
133 - jordan was a freshman. Most top 10 recruits AA, especially in the past few years. He could very well jump levels. 
  
157 -I know people think I’m nuts, but Kinner could do damage here if he can adjust to the weight. His skills on top are incredible 

  
Ohio State has less sure things, but this is very much a team that can place high. 80+ points is very possible

125-Malik was not undersized this year.  He was out-toughed. Redshirt him, make him sign up in a MMA gym to gain some grit, or something... and let one of the Koontz bang this year.  The Koontz may not have the elite skillsets that some top recruits have, but they'll give 215% every time they step on the mat and chances are they won't be out-toughed.

133-He has about a good 30 seconds then he hits a wall.  He needs to redshirt and go 141, imho.  Let the other Koontz man this spot.

157-Kinner has to add a lot of muscle to be effective here at a AA level.  He was just absolutely horsed against Peyton Robb.  You don't think 'CLYDESDALE' when you think of Peyton Robb.

As of today, just looking at Wrestlestat at their roster, this is my reaction as to what I believe puts out their nominally best lineup:

125-Koontz
133-Koontz
*141/149-Echemendia/Kinner
*157-Sasso
**165-Smith
**174-Romero
**184-Jordan
***197-Singletary
****285-Orndorff
*I don't think you could go wrong with either of these toons at either weights.  Sasso at 157 makes much more sense for the team, and individually.  I just don't see him beating Johnny D at all, whereas 157 doesn't have any of those transcendent toons(fight me).
**Kharchla will take whatever weight he chooses between 165-184.  He will effect where other peeps go.  Smith, Romero, and Jordan will be wrestling off for two spots between 165-184.  There is also Hubbard to consider in that range, as well.  The guy did beat Amine in a more convincing fashion than Kharchla did.
***I'm still not sold that Hoffman isn't a legit prospect and would not be surprised the least if he somehow works his way into the lineup at 197 at some point.  Especially since we've never seen Singletary at 197 in college, and he is quite a beefcake.
****Not sold that Orndorff has the spot by the end of the season.  Singletary could have a $HlT cut and decide on going back up, Traub could make a developmental leap and hold him off, even Boykin could pose him problems.  They could have four legitimate D1 type starters at 285 by the end of the year.

Obviously the potential that Malik and Jordan add at 125 and 133 make their tournament peak performances possibly better, but the consistency I think we'll get in the twins will have a better team impact for duals.  I don't see them getting blown away often there, even if out-slicked.  That starts the duals out better than two dominant techfall losses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...