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Ohio State is vastly underrated

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7 hours ago, Billyhoyle said:

I predict Singletary takes the spot at 197, Hoffman transfers, and Kinner breaks out at whatever weight he goes. 

Can Kinner beat Sasso if Woods transfers in at 49?

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14 minutes ago, Sstern said:

Can Kinner beat Sasso if Woods transfers in at 49?

doubt it...if that was the case then he would have done so last year and wrestled 149 instead of bouncing around from 133 to 157

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5 hours ago, Sstern said:

Can Kinner beat Sasso if Woods transfers in at 49?

Has Ohio State been mentioned as a possible destination (beyond wishful thinking)?.  Woods is fantastic and I'm sure they would love to have him but they are pretty stacked 141/149 already so it seems like they would be more focused on areas of need (ie. 125/133).  I also agree that if Kinner was on Sasso's level then the bump would have happened last year.  I have been a proponent of Sasso moving up to 157 in the past as I think he would have similar success there but would be better for the team.  I have Sasso as a favorite at 149 if Yianni stays at 141, at 157 I would have Deakin and Hidley ahead of Sammy.

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2 hours ago, balanceseeker said:

Has Ohio State been mentioned as a possible destination (beyond wishful thinking)?.  Woods is fantastic and I'm sure they would love to have him but they are pretty stacked 141/149 already so it seems like they would be more focused on areas of need (ie. 125/133).  I also agree that if Kinner was on Sasso's level then the bump would have happened last year.  I have been a proponent of Sasso moving up to 157 in the past as I think he would have similar success there but would be better for the team.  I have Sasso as a favorite at 149 if Yianni stays at 141, at 157 I would have Deakin and Hidley ahead of Sammy.

An insider on another board has said tOSU is in the mix.

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52 minutes ago, DocBZ said:

An insider on another board has said tOSU is in the mix.

I saw what Bob P. said on ohiowrestling.net but haven't seen anything else.  I would be super stoked to have him it just seems unlikely.  Spend that money on a little guy!  

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1 hour ago, balanceseeker said:

I saw what Bob P. said on ohiowrestling.net but haven't seen anything else.  I would be super stoked to have him it just seems unlikely.  Spend that money on a little guy!  

Well he's as good as any with his years of connections. 

Edited by DocBZ

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12 hours ago, Gasman1 said:

doubt it...if that was the case then he would have done so last year and wrestled 149 instead of bouncing around from 133 to 157

Except that Kinner was at 33 for wrestle offs.

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2 hours ago, Sstern said:

Except that Kinner was at 33 for wrestle offs.

No he wasn't.  He was at 141 where he lost 7-3 to Pletcher.  Decatur beat Koontz in the 133 wrestle off.  Kinner decided to drop after the wrestle off.  It showed a lot of courage but it was ill advised and unsustainable.  Quinn Kinner did not look well at 133 and frankly it was hard to watch.  I think 141/149 would have been ideal last year but he was unable to beat Pletcher or Sasso (no shame in that) which is why he was forced up to 157.

Edited by balanceseeker

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On 7/13/2020 at 9:51 PM, balanceseeker said:

No he wasn't.  He was at 141 where he lost 7-3 to Pletcher.  Decatur beat Koontz in the 133 wrestle off.  Kinner decided to drop after the wrestle off.  It showed a lot of courage but it was ill advised and unsustainable.  Quinn Kinner did not look well at 133 and frankly it was hard to watch.  I think 141/149 would have been ideal last year but he was unable to beat Pletcher or Sasso (no shame in that) which is why he was forced up to 157.

I’m a big supporter of Tom Ryan- but when is he going to figure out that cutting guys to an extreme weight class doesn’t work in college wrestling.  Remember the year he cut sponseller and nemec down to 157 and 149?  Colt stunk up the mat and Nemec couldn’t win a novice takedown tournament.  Or we he cut Logan down to 125 and he took 6th at Vegas.   Or his numerous debacles Cutting heavyweights to 197.  

 

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1 hour ago, Cradle1 said:

I’m a big supporter of Tom Ryan- but when is he going to figure out that cutting guys to an extreme weight class doesn’t work in college wrestling.  Remember the year he cut sponseller and nemec down to 157 and 149?  Colt stunk up the mat and Nemec couldn’t win a novice takedown tournament.  Or we he cut Logan down to 125 and he took 6th at Vegas.   Or his numerous debacles Cutting heavyweights to 197.  

 

I remember the Sponseller to 157 debacle but not Nemec to 149.  Did that actually happen or was it just talked about?  Regarding Logan at 125, remember that is where he wrestled as a high school senior and I think many people presumed he would stay small.  His poor performance in Vegas I think had more to due with the injury than anything else.  I will say one time that this did work for TR is with J Jaggers.  Remember J was a 149 his freshman year under Russ and then cut to 141 the following year (Ryan's first) to make room for Lance Palmer at 149.  Palmer originally committed to Russ then recommitted to Ryan so maybe this was the plan all along.

 

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3 hours ago, balanceseeker said:

I remember the Sponseller to 157 debacle but not Nemec to 149.  Did that actually happen or was it just talked about?  Regarding Logan at 125, remember that is where he wrestled as a high school senior and I think many people presumed he would stay small.  His poor performance in Vegas I think had more to due with the injury than anything else.  I will say one time that this did work for TR is with J Jaggers.  Remember J was a 149 his freshman year under Russ and then cut to 141 the following year (Ryan's first) to make room for Lance Palmer at 149.  Palmer originally committed to Russ then recommitted to Ryan so maybe this was the plan all along.

 

It did.  Nemec was so piss poor at 149 you probably repressed the memory.  

Jaggers is definitely a solid counter to my point I grant you that... but one thing I’ve learned over the years is that elite wrestlers who move up a weight class almost always do better, but elite Wrestlers who cut to a weight below where they have competed in prior seasons virtually always perform worse. Most recent example would be Ben Darmstadt at 184.... just awful.  Once he moved back up to 197 he was a potential finalist if not for co-vid.

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54 minutes ago, Cradle1 said:

It did.  Nemec was so piss poor at 149 you probably repressed the memory.  

Jaggers is definitely a solid counter to my point I grant you that... but one thing I’ve learned over the years is that elite wrestlers who move up a weight class almost always do better, but elite Wrestlers who cut to a weight below where they have competed in prior seasons virtually always perform worse. Most recent example would be Ben Darmstadt at 184.... just awful.  Once he moved back up to 197 he was a potential finalist if not for co-vid.

Nemec was bad at every weight in college. The problem wasn’t the weight, he just didn’t pan out. Some people find success at lower weights. Others do not. It depends on the individual. 

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10 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

Nemec was bad at every weight in college. The problem wasn’t the weight, he just didn’t pan out. Some people find success at lower weights. Others do not. It depends on the individual. 

True story- but at 149 he was basically the new and improved version of Adam.

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Tom Ryan is a Gable guy and those great Iowa Teams cut weight.  Sometimes it is just about fitting all your studs in the lineup maximizing points.  Remember Gable cut defending NCAA champ Troy Steiner down to 134 to fit Lincoln Mac in the lineup as a freshman.  Ohio State has had the same "problem" recently although obviously not to the same degree.  They have had a number of great recruits who ended up having to cut big weight or move up and wrestle out of weight class because someone even more elite was in front of them.  In addition weight cutting kind of falls in line with the whole "Chosen Suffering" theme that Coach Ryan often endorses.  Like it or hate it, it's worked pretty well for him.

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21 hours ago, Cradle1 said:

It did.  Nemec was so piss poor at 149 you probably repressed the memory.  

Jaggers is definitely a solid counter to my point I grant you that... but one thing I’ve learned over the years is that elite wrestlers who move up a weight class almost always do better, but elite Wrestlers who cut to a weight below where they have competed in prior seasons virtually always perform worse. Most recent example would be Ben Darmstadt at 184.... just awful.  Once he moved back up to 197 he was a potential finalist if not for co-vid.

Keaton Anderson is another good example.  149 to 157.  

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41 minutes ago, Cradle1 said:

Great example- He was kind of a journeyman at 149, But as I recall he likely would’ve been champ at 157 if not for major injury

I remember when he beat Luke Becker 10-3 in a dual that senior year at 157.  The loudest I've ever heard it at St. John Arena.  (High respect for Becker, by the way.)

Knee badly damaged in Big Tens.  Made it to semis at Nationals and finished 6th.  

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14 hours ago, TheOhioState said:

I remember when he beat Luke Becker 10-3 in a dual that senior year at 157.  The loudest I've ever heard it at St. John Arena.  (High respect for Becker, by the way.)

Knee badly damaged in Big Tens.  Made it to semis at Nationals and finished 6th.  

Keaton was an animal, particularly on top.  That cross body ride where he would cradlle the guy on the opposite side when they stepped up with the outside leg is what I remember him hitting on everyone that year.

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Bucks picked ups commit from Andre Gonzales #39 overall in 2021 by Flo and #4 at 113. Won Greco and freestyle at Fargo Junior Nationals. I heard somewhere he will go 133? Really?? Anyone know anything about him?

 

https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-wrestling/2020/08/115534/wrestling-no-4-andre-gonzales-is-ohio-states-second-commitment-in-the-class-of-2021

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1 hour ago, jeffrideal said:

What weight does Romero go, he is huge. 

 

I heard somewhere Kharchla will wrestle smith for 165. The loser wrestles Rocky for 174...or something like that. The loser of that match may even wrestle Rocky for 184. I can't remember exactly.

Edited by DocBZ

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2 hours ago, DocBZ said:

I heard somewhere Kharchla will wrestle smith for 165. The loser wrestles Rocky for 174...or something like that. The loser of that match may even wrestle Rocky for 184. I can't remember exactly.

That's been mentioned as has Karchla and Romero wrestling off at 174 with the loser challenging Rocky at 184.  I live in Columbus, am a season ticket holder, and coached high school in Central Ohio for a long time.  Most people that I would consider reliable or "close to the program" are saying Karchla is too big and unable to make 165.  This is good news for Smith and probably bad news for Rocky.  I think it ends up being 165-Smith, 174-Karchla, 184-Romero.

Edited by balanceseeker

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