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2 hours ago, balanceseeker said:

That's been mentioned as has Karchla and Romero wrestling off at 174 with the loser challenging Rocky at 184.  I live in Columbus, am a season ticket holder, and coached high school in Central Ohio for a long time.  Most people that I would consider reliable or "close to the program" are saying Karchla is too big and unable to make 165.  This is good news for Smith and probably bad news for Rocky.  I think it ends up being 165-Smith, 174-Karchla, 184-Romero.

Does that mean if Rocky loses, he wrestles off Singletary and Hoffman for 197?

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1 hour ago, ShakaAloha said:

Does that mean if Rocky loses, he wrestles off Singletary and Hoffman for 197?

That's a good question.  I am on record saying I think Singletary will be very good (high AA) at 197 but that certainly isn't the consensus.  I think Rocky might be the odd man out, not because he isn't good but because Karchla and Romero are better.  Maybe Rocky style plays better at 197?  He seems to have trouble with really athletic guys and is good from the top position.  I guess time will tell.  

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2 hours ago, balanceseeker said:

That's a good question.  I am on record saying I think Singletary will be very good (high AA) at 197 but that certainly isn't the consensus.  I think Rocky might be the odd man out, not because he isn't good but because Karchla and Romero are better.  Maybe Rocky style plays better at 197?  He seems to have trouble with really athletic guys and is good from the top position.  I guess time will tell.  

Thanks for your response.  Has Hoffman not panned out as expected?  He was really highly-regarded as a HS prospect.  Or is he being blocked by guys who are better?  What are your expectations from Hoffman going forward?

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6 minutes ago, ShakaAloha said:

Thanks for your response.  Has Hoffman not panned out as expected?  He was really highly-regarded as a HS prospect.  Or is he being blocked by guys who are better?  What are your expectations from Hoffman going forward?

Hoffman looked pretty good as a redshirt at 184 but seemed to regress last year.  He lost his wrestle off to a guy who he was expected to beat soundly (Steiner) and then under performed at early season tournaments.  He showed some grit in the dual against Arizona State and may have won the dual for the Bucks by not getting pinned by Zahid despite nearly getting his head twisted off for 7 minutes (seriously my neck hurt for 3 days after watching it).  That was the last time he was at 184 as Rocky bumped up in January.  It came out that weight was a big issue and he actually finished the year wrestling opens at Heavyweight.doing pretty well but obviously being undersized.  I read an article saying that he went home to PA and regained his confidence and mojo and is planning on challenging at 197.  As I said, my confidence in Singletary is not shared by everyone and some feel he is the heir apparent at 197.  I personally believe Singletary has shown a lot more than Hoffman or Rocky but I suppose any of the three could emerge as the guy.  There is also the chance that Rocky holds the spot at 184 but I feel pretty strongly that Romero was a cut above Rocky last year and is on a steeper learning curve.  In Myle's Martin's recent interview he talks about staying in town to train with Kolin Moore and Romero and between that and the obvious time in the weight room I think we see Kaleb make another jump.

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On 7/15/2020 at 3:54 PM, Cradle1 said:

I’m a big supporter of Tom Ryan- but when is he going to figure out that cutting guys to an extreme weight class doesn’t work in college wrestling.  Remember the year he cut sponseller and nemec down to 157 and 149?  Colt stunk up the mat and Nemec couldn’t win a novice takedown tournament.  Or we he cut Logan down to 125 and he took 6th at Vegas.   Or his numerous debacles Cutting heavyweights to 197.  

 

Specifically in the Kinner situation, wasn't that Kinner's  choice to go down to challenge? 

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8 hours ago, DocBZ said:

Bucks picked ups commit from Andre Gonzales #39 overall in 2021 by Flo and #4 at 113. Won Greco and freestyle at Fargo Junior Nationals. I heard somewhere he will go 133? Really?? Anyone know anything about him?

 

https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-wrestling/2020/08/115534/wrestling-no-4-andre-gonzales-is-ohio-states-second-commitment-in-the-class-of-2021

Everywhere I have seen he is projected as a 125....so that's kinda weird. He has been a 106 pounder for awhile now. He will have to fill out. He could end up being a 4 year 125. Definitely a good pickup for the Bucks. 

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1 hour ago, balanceseeker said:

Hoffman looked pretty good as a redshirt at 184 but seemed to regress last year.  He lost his wrestle off to a guy who he was expected to beat soundly (Steiner) and then under performed at early season tournaments.  He showed some grit in the dual against Arizona State and may have won the dual for the Bucks by not getting pinned by Zahid despite nearly getting his head twisted off for 7 minutes (seriously my neck hurt for 3 days after watching it).  That was the last time he was at 184 as Rocky bumped up in January.  It came out that weight was a big issue and he actually finished the year wrestling opens at Heavyweight.doing pretty well but obviously being undersized.  I read an article saying that he went home to PA and regained his confidence and mojo and is planning on challenging at 197.  As I said, my confidence in Singletary is not shared by everyone and some feel he is the heir apparent at 197.  I personally believe Singletary has shown a lot more than Hoffman or Rocky but I suppose any of the three could emerge as the guy.  There is also the chance that Rocky holds the spot at 184 but I feel pretty strongly that Romero was a cut above Rocky last year and is on a steeper learning curve.  In Myle's Martin's recent interview he talks about staying in town to train with Kolin Moore and Romero and between that and the obvious time in the weight room I think we see Kaleb make another jump.

Thanks again...this is really informative.  I think that the Hoffman-Singletary battle at 197 is going to be really interesting, as they were both big time recruits coming out of HS.  My concern about Singletary is that he is one of those guys that struggles with the cut to 197 but is too small for heavyweight.  Whereas, Hoffman seems like a more natural 197 to me.  

I agree with you about Romero.  He will be a starter, it's just a matter of what weight.  It's a shame that Carson can't make 165 anymore, because a Karchla-Romero-Jordan lineup from 165 to 184 would be really solid.  Now one of them could be sitting on the bench.

With respect to the Gonzales pick up, I like him as a prospect and he can redshirt for a year before taking over 125 from Malik.  What I am confused by is why Ryan has never tried to aggressively recruit an upgrade at 125 and 133.  No disrespect to Malik and Decatur, but they are the weak spots in the lineup.  Ryan has never been shy about bringing in a guy despite having a solid starter already in place.  For example, he brought in Joey McKenna and Sammy Sasso when he had Ke-Shawn.  He also brought in Orndorff after Gas Tank proved to be a solid starter.  I'm sure others can think of more examples, but those are the first two that come to mind.  

Edited by ShakaAloha
typo

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I like the Gonzales pickup too.  Lightweights are so hard to recruit as people grow at different rates and it's hard to tell who will stay small.  David Taylor wrestled 112 his junior year of high school.  I don't think it's that they haven't tried to recruit an upgrade at 125 as they were in on Stevo and Richie Figs they just didn't get either of them.  California State Champ and double Fargo Champ is nothing to sneeze at.  It's seems reasonable that he could grow into 125 particularly with a red shirt. Regarding Jordan Decatur, I'm not ready to write him off just yet.  Everyone knew that he would struggle on the mat and could use a red shirt but TR likes to wrestle the best guy available.   By all accounts Jordan is a hard worker, and it's reasonable to think that he could make some adjustments and still be successful.

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8 hours ago, ShakaAloha said:

Does that mean if Rocky loses, he wrestles off Singletary and Hoffman for 197?

Idk if Rocky would wrestle off at 97 if he loses the 84 wrestle off.....  Rocky bumped up from 74 to 84 last year, and said in an interview last year that he walked around at about 84 naturally, so idk if he’d be able to bump up to 97 and compete 

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17 hours ago, Idaho said:

I thought Decatur had some bright flashes last year. My understanding and what I saw was a weight issue. I wouldn’t give up on him either. 

He was the 14th seed at the big ten tournament. Out of 14 wrestlers. 

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22 minutes ago, Cradle1 said:

He was the 14th seed at the big ten tournament. Out of 14 wrestlers. 

So.....your saying you would give up on him? He didn’t show any potential? He didn’t have weight issues? The top 8 qualifiers weren’t that good....????

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7 hours ago, Cradle1 said:

He was the 14th seed at the big ten tournament. Out of 14 wrestlers. 

He was a true freshman and the Big 10 is incredibly difficult.  Losing to the Maryland kid Sandoval really hurt him.  He got hit with a cement mixer and fought hard to not get pinned.  He battled back but ended up losing by a point or two if I remember correctly.  He showed that he can wrestle on his his feet with anyone taking down Gross multiple times and Desanto at least once (prior to getting crushed).  I think he had the Nebraska kid beat and got screwed on a bad call for the late reversal.  He showed enough to make me think that if he worked hard to improve on some of his deficits he could eventually be a guy that wins a lot of matches and challenges for AA later in his career.   I've heard the weight concerns and do believe that if Jordan Decatur has a future at tOSU it is at 133.  With Echemendia, Sasso, Kinner, and D'Emilo the middle weights are already pretty crowded and if JD does ends up a starting college 141 I think it will elsewhere.

Edited by balanceseeker

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40 minutes ago, balanceseeker said:

He was a true freshman and the Big 10 is incredibly difficult.  Losing to the Maryland kid Sandoval really hurt him.  He got hit with a cement mixer and fought hard to not get pinned.  He battled back but ended up losing by a point or two if I remember correctly.  He showed that he can wrestle on his his feet with anyone taking down Gross multiple times and Desanto at least once (prior to getting crushed).  I think he had the Nebraska kid beat and got screwed on a bad call for the late reversal.  He showed enough to make me think that if he worked hard to improve on some of his deficits he could eventually be a guy that wins a lot of matches and challenges for AA later in his career.   I've heard the weight concerns and do believe that if Jordan Decatur has a future at tOSU it is at 133.  With Echemendia, Sasso, Kinner, and D'Emilo the middle weights are already pretty crowded and if JD does ends up a starting college 141 I think it will elsewhere.

You’re definitely a glass is half full kinda guy lol.   I feel like with lightweight wrestlers for the most part I don’t see them develop that much anymore... the guys who are gonna light it up do so right out of the gate like lee, tomasello and Steiber.

Maybe you’re right and he progresses to the 13th seed this year. 

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7 hours ago, Idaho said:

So.....your saying you would give up on him? He didn’t show any potential? He didn’t have weight issues? The top 8 qualifiers weren’t that good....????

All fair points and I’d love to be wrong. He did show flashes of brilliance but wrestling will continue to be a seven minute match In the unlikely event we still have a sport and Mat wrestling will also continue to be important.  The weight issues will only get worse it would seem as men tend to get bigger at the age of 19. 

 If the matches consisted of one takedown he’d be an All-American hands-down.

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6 minutes ago, Cradle1 said:

All fair points and I’d love to be wrong. He did show flashes of brilliance but wrestling will continue to be a seven minute match In the unlikely event we still have a sport and Mat wrestling will also continue to be important.  The weight issues will only get worse it would seem as men tend to get bigger at the age of 19. 

 If the matches consisted of one takedown he’d be an All-American hands-down.

As I mentioned I agree the weight is a valid concern.  I absolutely think mat wrestling improves for a lot of guys once they get a few years in a college room.  Most athletes coming out of high school are not ready for D1 college mat wrestling.  

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Flo guys were doing lineup breakdowns for tOSU vs. Nebraska and tOSU vs. Cornell.  Those guys disagreed about where Karchla will be weight wise initially slotting him at 165 then moving him to 174.  They discussed Romero getting bumped out of the lineup in this scenario and barely considered the idea that he could bump up and beat Rocky.  They also said Kemmerer may be up at 184 which makes 174 even more attractive as Karchla and possibly Romero could both been seen as title threats at this weight.  I think Smith at 165 > Rocky at 184.  Both guys are probably round of 12 types but Smith showed more grit and has the better wins so I think he is more likely to push through and possibly be a low AA.   I think Rocky's ceiling this year is round of 12 while I think Romero is and AA at 184 provided he is big enough (pictures suggest he is).  Flo guys also like Singletary at 197 and didn't even mention Hoffman.  

Choice A

165-Karchla-mid/high AA but probably tops out at 3rd or 4th

174-Romero-Top 4/Possible title contender

184-Rocky-Round of 12

 

Choice B

165-Smith-Round of 12/low AA

174-Karchla-national title contender/top 4

184-Romero-Mid/low AA

 

I'm not sure what maximizes tournament points but I think ultimately it will be choice B.

 

Edited by balanceseeker

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