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ArmchairFan

All-Americans who were only good at Neutral

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16 hours ago, MSU158 said:

So one Lizak match and coasting against 1 other guy with a comfortable lead is a trend? Oh, and that other guy’s best position just so happened to be top. Oh, and he just so happens to be from Michigan and was a hammer on top even then. 

Yes, the Cruz decision was a serious brain fart. Case in point is how he was able to get the escape with short time left to get the match to OT.  He chooses bottom to start the 3rd he is an NCAA champ now.......

It wasn't a brain fart they were scared he'd get ridden because he was getting a lot that year.

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5 hours ago, Antitroll2828 said:

He didn’t really “easily AA”, he had to wrestle Gomez in the blood round who had beat him earlier in the year in there only other match up 

We don't have a common understanding of what the word "easily" means.  He beat Gomez 16-5 to make AA, won his next match, lost a one point match to Pletcher Saturday morning, and ended up 5th.

He in that tournament beat RBY, lost to Micic by one point, crushed Gomez -- and, after he clinched AA, beat Lizak, which he couldn't have done if he was as bad on bottom as he had been the previous year.

The earlier loss to Gomez only proves the point of how much he grew between the 2018 and 2019 NCAAs.  The Iowa-Iowa State dual was at the beginning of the year, 3.5 months before NCAAs. DeSanto hadn't yet developed under the Brands' the way he did by the middle and end of the season. He went from being almost pinned by Gomez to dominating and majoring him. 

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3xAA Lavion Mayes. By his senior year he could get away from everyone not named Zain, but remained worthless from top. But he was routinely ridden in his early years by average D1 guys. 

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James Green was a natural freestyler.  He was probably the best neutral position wrestler at his weight, but that riding time and mat scrambling stuff would get him every once in a while.

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Please forgive me if I'm wrong but I remembered reading an interview by Jason Welch and he said something to the effect of in high school he was so dominant on his feet he would just cut guys, so he never had to worry about top wrestling....I remember his funkiness and his amazing neutral ability but did he ever develop any mat wrestling?  

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VT alum Devin Carter was a TD king and apt to get back points in the transition or pins. Steiber and the Edinboro guy were the only two he struggled with in neutral. He was not a great mat wrestler and and admitted it to some degree. He could have been a really good FS guy on the senior level if he chose that path but went on to get his doctorate degree instead

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I thought I posted this already, but must not have submitted it.....I'm thinking maybe Jimmy Carr.....Olympic Team at 16, but only All-American'd once for Kentucky, finishing 5th in 1977.  Great double legs and arm drags....after that no so sure.  He was VERY fast though, just like Nate.  (great suplays too).  Jimmy passed away way too soon.  RIP.    Had a couple of great Midlands tournaments and a great match or 2 with Don Behm.

Edited by fadzaev2

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Kyle Ott from Illinois was an amazing wrestler on his feet and felt he could take anyone down and although he wasn’t terrible top/bottom, he did struggle and feel it’s what led him to two runner-up finishes instead of a national title.  For instance in his first finals appearance against Jason Powell, he got the first takedown, before being teched 17-2.

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2 minutes ago, Schuteandscore said:

Kyle Ott from Illinois was an amazing wrestler on his feet and felt he could take anyone down and although he wasn’t terrible top/bottom, he did struggle and feel it’s what led him to two runner-up finishes instead of a national title.  For instance in his first finals appearance against Jason Powell, he got the first takedown, before being teched 17-2.

Wasn't he dealing with something like a very serious leg/foot infection at the time and was a surprise he made it that far?

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I know in HS he was riddled with knee injuries, having something crazy like 9 knee surgeries in a summer before his senior year and still managed to come back and win his 3rd straight Ohio state title.  I am sure that played a role in his college career and still think it’s amazing he accomplished what he did.

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7 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

Wasn't he dealing with something like a very serious leg/foot infection at the time and was a surprise he made it that far?

Meant to quote you above...

Edited by Schuteandscore

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On 5/31/2020 at 10:55 AM, tigerfan said:

3xAA Lavion Mayes. By his senior year he could get away from everyone not named Zain, but remained worthless from top. But he was routinely ridden in his early years by average D1 guys. 

This may come as quite a shock to many people on this board, but we don't teach mat wrestling in IL. That's what college coaches are for.

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27 minutes ago, Schuteandscore said:

I know in HS he was riddled with knee injuries, having something crazy like 9 knee surgeries in a summer before his senior year and still managed to come back and win his 3rd straight Ohio state title.  I am sure that played a role in his college career and still think it’s amazing he accomplished what he did.

Recap of what Ott overcame and is now a sports medicine ortho so he's come full circle

https://www.wrestlingpod.com/wrestling-news/w987/kyle-ott-beats-the-odds-in-quest-for-wrestling-success/

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On 6/5/2020 at 10:52 AM, bnwtwg said:

This may come as quite a shock to many people on this board, but we don't teach mat wrestling in IL. That's what college coaches are for.

I've coached at every level.....I taught mat wrestling at the junior high, high school and college level.  By the time my junior high kids got to high school, they were already good on the mat.

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13 hours ago, Lunaticfringe said:

Zach Sanders struggled on bottom often against average guys and wasn’t much on top. He had a great gas tank and could get out because of his pace in the end.

 

I think a LOT of that had to do with size.  If they still had 118, even with the new weigh-ins, I think Sanders would have been very dominant there.

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On 5/29/2020 at 9:16 AM, TexRef said:

Crotalus-That is a blast from the past. TJ seemed to have an unorthodox style. Did he go to a D1 school out in Cali, Fresno State comes to mind but I could be wrong. What happened to him and please fill us in on his story. Thanks for sharing. 

He went to Cal State Fresno. I think it took him a couple of years to get academically qualified and then couldn't stay eligible so only wrestled one year D1. 2000 was the only year I attended NCAAs. It was in St. Louis and he was a Missouri legend (4x state champ and teched or pinned everyone his last 3 years and a bunch of cadet/junior freestyle titles) so I paid attention to all his matches. Rumor was he barely weighed 120 lbs, if that. I've stood next to him and he is maybe 5 ft. Very undersized but had a crazy good arm spin. His semifinal match is on youtube and is worth a watch despite the awful quality. The size difference is not something you see often at 125 lbs. Unfortunately his 3rd place match against Jody Strittmatter (Iowa) is not, but he lost 11-2. If I remember correctly, Strittmatter spent most of the match on top turning TJ. He could do nothing from bottom. He wrestled freestyle for years after, but not sure of any results.

 

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