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Lu1979- first thank you for your post and I can tell from the time you took that this topic must be important to you as you stated. I will attempt to address a few of the points/things you said:

 

Based on your first paragraph, your disagreement with me is that you think we are closer to reaching the lofty goal of all those being treated equally under the law than I probably do. Completely fair of you to take that opinion given that you are from an older generation than myself. I’m sure the comparison you have from long ago stand in contrast to what you’ve seen more recently which is understandable. However, just because there are less beatings of blacks in the street, and there aren’t any outspoken black leaders being assassinated such as MLK doesn’t exactly give me a ringing endorsement of how far we’ve come. After all, it was just a couple years ago when there was a large group of people in Charlottesville VA marching with Nazi flags (whom your parents generation fought against) and peddled in white supremacy/KKK chants of blood and soil.... I think a lot of us on here just don’t live day to day with the prejudices against us that others face daily, maybe for you and others it’s just a case of out of sight out of mind. What’s happening now isn’t new for a lot of people, it’s just being projected louder.

4 hours ago, lu1979 said:

The US ended slavery in 1865 and after a brief time when equal rights started to emerge in the South there was a massive backlash fueled by white racism and the Jim Crow were instituted in the South.  In the rest of the country there wasn't the legal structure set up to enforce the separate and unequal treatment of whites and blacks but there was plenty of racism and discrimination that was widely accepted.  The same types of racist attitudes largely existed throughout all of the other countries of the world also.  

Did you know that from the point slaves were freed and during the Jim Crow era police were tasked with rounding up black people in mass for minor crimes to fill the economic gap left behind in the south due to freeing those slaves? Why would they do that? In the 13th amendment the loop hole was that stated

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction." 
 

The fact that the criminal loophole resulted in a loss of rights and provided ways to gain back labor through the prison system exists to this day albeit in varying forms. Policing in the south created such a dangerous environment for blacks they began migrating to the north and were met with much of the same attitude. (Floyd wasn’t killed In Mississippi, it’s Minnesota for Pete’s sake. ) The US accounts for 5% of the worlds population but in-prisons 25% of the worlds prisoners... That fact alone shows how at least one answer to some of the issues faced today is to do away with private prisons for profit. 
 

Additionally- $1 billion was spent by police departments last year In the top 10 cities for settling cases of misconduct. One Billion dollars. 

You go on to mention laws changing and evolving for the betterment of racial equality... These are some recent facts:

In Minneapolis force was used on blacks 7 times more often than whites.

Blacks are 2.5 times more likely to be killed by police than whites and about 1 in every 1,000 black men can expect to be killed by police.

4 hours ago, lu1979 said:

There are millions of African American kids in this country growing up right now and what should they be hearing from the adults of this country.  What should they be hearing from the millions of African Americans who have found their way to great success here?  Should they tell them they can't succeed due to horrible systemic racism and institutional racism that exists in this awful country?  Or do we tell them that their success depends on their own actions, is in their own hands.  This starts with education, and is rooted in work ethic.  I think all of the successful African Americans and people from every ethnic background can deliver this message.   I firmly believe that the route to the American Dream is open to everyone in this country and depends on making good choices and avoiding bad choices in life. 


This part of your post comes off as very naive, especially when referencing an American dream that really doesn’t exist for most Americans these days regardless of your ethnicity. I am not saying we shouldn’t speak positivity to young black kids today and tell them how work ethic can solve their problems and help them find success. We should lift them up every chance we get.
 

The unfortunate part is that they ARE being pushed down by systemic bias, stereotypes and yes, to an extent, racism. I would never say any black person isn’t capable of winning the race to success, they just don’t get the incredible head start that a lot of white people do. It’s a sad truth many of us don’t want to admit or face because we feel it threatens the legitimacy of the success we found. It shouldn’t threaten us at all, we should just be open to that concept and find ways to fix it. 

Your generation no doubt took strides to reduce the amount of overt racism that existed, it’s now on the younger generations to pick up the baton and keep going to reduce it further and in hopes one day we can get to a better place than we are today. One thing we can never do is sit back on our laurels and say ‘look at all the steps we’ve taken’ but rather look to the future and take those steps toward a more equal society for all not just in law but in everyday life. 

‘A rising tide lifts all ships’

 

Edited by DoubleHalf

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14 hours ago, Ogalthorpe Haywood said:

So Zain has a problem with this guys views but is ok with being associated with PSU? PSU had one of the biggest scandals in recent memory. Two faced if you ask me, these guys show there true colors when they tuck tail and run when times get tough. 

Scraplife is wrestling related, the PSU issue was football related.......Zain's doing the right thing!!!

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Scraplife is wrestling related, the PSU issue was football related.......Zain's doing the right thing!!!
Penn State University officials covered for a known pedophile to protect their clean image. There's no right way to do something wrong. Zain is a country boy hick. Not that there's anything wrong with that. What can he do besides wrestle? Ride a tractor?

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

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31 minutes ago, cjc007 said:

Penn State University officials covered for a known pedophile to protect their clean image. There's no right way to do something wrong. Zain is a country boy hick. Not that there's anything wrong with that. What can he do besides wrestle? Ride a tractor?

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk
 

Maybe he could get a job with his college degree in Finance?

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1 hour ago, fadzaev2 said:

Scraplife is wrestling related, the PSU issue was football related.......Zain's doing the right thing!!!

PSU issue was university related, It was covered up by the top of the top. By right thing do you mean the easy thing and popular thing than yes you are correct. 

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13 hours ago, lu1979 said:

People are missing a larger point on this - since when are people not entitled to express an opinion in this country?  Now Drew Blees can't express his opinion on the kneeling during the national anthem without being castigated as a racist?  This guy from Scraplife has a right to express his opinion regardless if it is popular or not.  There is nothing remotely racist in that guy's post.  If we are not free to criticize  or disagree with a political party (Democrats) or a very political group pushing an agenda (like BLM) we are in big trouble in this country.  If you think I am out of line check out the Van Jones interview with some singer named Andra Day - according to her "you can't control the the thoughts of the people being oppressed.  You have to control the thoughts of the oppressor  - whether they're aware of it or not" end quote - So the message if you buy into the concepts of "systemic racism" "institutional racism" and "white privilege" is that we can be racist even if we don't realize it.  That is very convenient.  The goal posts have been magically moved in the midst of the game and its still happening.  I believe that I like many Americans are very committed to reaching what the original goal was as it was eloquently described in MLK's I have a dream speech.  Personally I think this country is a hell of a lot closer to being at that original goal than people (especially liberal Democrats) give it credit for.  Well I have probably said more than I should but not allowing people to have an opinion should bother all Americans.

You're free to express any opinion you like.  Nobody is stopping you.  That doesn't mean that there aren't consequences for expressing your opinion.  If you work for a company like Bank of America and use your free time to spew racist gibberish and attend white power rallies, and somehow they find out about it, it's pretty likely they'd terminate your employment.  Most companies probably wouldn't want to have an employee who is associated with those kinds of beliefs, given that they probably serve minorities as well.  You can't have it all one way, that's kind of the point people are making about racism.  Saying things like, racism doesn't exist or that other people were discriminated against before, or just be quiet and deal with it, aren't really applicable.  Nor are they really solutions.  Whether you believe it or not, we've had institutionalized racism and prejudice in this country for a very long time.  True some advances have been made, segregation isn't legal anymore, but just because laws exist to prevent it, doesn't mean the same attitudes that put those policies in place don't exist and aren't proliferated anymore.  You are free to disagree, but when you spout off talking points that come from people like Cernovich, a noted scumbag of a human being, or even Trump, a guy who has straight up used racial slurs and openly discriminated against black people, it kind of speaks to where you get your information.  An objective and non biased opinion on why you disagree with intitutionalized racism or believe it doesn't exist would be welcome. Not twitter rants and opinions from noted racists.  

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 If you want to make a far leaning political statement it’s best to make it on your personal page rather than a business one and hope the doesn’t directly effect the company you run or work for.  Company’s shouldn’t make politically statements unless they are read to deal with the fall out that may occur as a result of what they say.   

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10 hours ago, cjc007 said:

Penn State University officials covered for a known pedophile to protect their clean image. There's no right way to do something wrong. Zain is a country boy hick. Not that there's anything wrong with that. What can he do besides wrestle? Ride a tractor?

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk
 

Great wrestler, great kid.....super fun to watch.

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On 6/8/2020 at 12:59 AM, Antitroll2828 said:

I believe the company panicked at first then beshada came out pretty early and took responsibility and was gone which should have put an end to it right there but the mob never has enough. Also for all the accusations him being a racist or bigot I have yet to see someone come out and say they’ve ever heard him speak with hate or malice about black people, from his twitter feed he’s a hard core republican with a strong distaste for liberals but Nothing racial..so unless nomad and people have some receipts he could probably sue because you can’t just slander and paint someone as a racist with no proof.

Although I think I agree with much of your initial post, Beshada's "manifesto" and apparent political beliefs suggest he's probably a racist.

That said, I'm unsure about how I view Scraplife as a company, and its role within the broader wrestling community.  As much as I enjoy seeing wrestling specific businesses succeed, and recognize how much they can elevate our sport, controversies like this are damaging, at least in the short term.

Regardless, I'd like to better understand Beshada's ties to, or position within, Scraplife prior to forming an opinion on the matter.

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9 minutes ago, whaletail said:

Although I think I agree with much of your initial post, Beshada's "manifesto" and apparent political beliefs suggest he's probably a racist.

big steamy pile of poo...

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7 minutes ago, TheOhioState said:

We aren’t here for facts we are here for raw emotion 

Edited by Antitroll2828

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1 hour ago, LJB said:

big steamy pile of poo...

That's your rebuttal?

Mind, I didn't express certainty, but given his posting history and his manifesto's myriad dog whistles, I'm reasonably confident Beshada's a racist.

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3 minutes ago, whaletail said:

That's your rebuttal?

Mind, I didn't express certainty, but given his posting history and his manifesto's myriad dog whistles, I'm reasonably confident Beshada's a racist.

That’s all your tripe deserves...

it easy and perfectly acceptable nowadays to just casually label someone a racist and it is deplorable...

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32 minutes ago, TheOhioState said:

I don't know whether we're experiencing an epidemic (for lack of a better word), or whether the socio-political climate and prevalence of cell phone cameras are combining to merely paint that picture, but I do suspect many police officers are under, or improperly, trained, and ill thus equipped to handle certain situations competently.

Whether they're as generally racist as some believe, I don't know, but law enforcement officers are an insular group, and in my experience (as both an ex-prosecutor and public defender), often view "civilians" in a generally negative light.

Regardless, I'm very interested in reading your links.

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5 minutes ago, LJB said:

That’s all your tripe deserves...

it easy and perfectly acceptable nowadays to just casually label someone a racist and it is deplorable...

I'm not casually labeling Beshada a racist, his public expressions suggest that he probably is.

And you still haven't rebutted my argument.

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3 minutes ago, whaletail said:

I'm not casually labeling Beshada a racist, his public expressions suggest that he probably is.

And you still haven't rebutted my argument.

You don’t have an argument... you just claim he is a racist because he posted something that is race related and while incredibly stupid, was not factually incorrect...

go find one real “racist” public comment he has made and show it off...

what you just did is one of the major issues in this country...

I don’t like it or agree with what was said so I’ll just say the most heinous yet trite thing that is popular to say at the moment...

again... deplorable 

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3 hours ago, whaletail said:

I don't know whether we're experiencing an epidemic (for lack of a better word), or whether the socio-political climate and prevalence of cell phone cameras are combining to merely paint that picture, but I do suspect many police officers are under, or improperly, trained, and ill thus equipped to handle certain situations competently.

Whether they're as generally racist as some believe, I don't know, but law enforcement officers are an insular group, and in my experience (as both an ex-prosecutor and public defender), often view "civilians" in a generally negative light.

Regardless, I'm very interested in reading your links.

You bring up a good point.  There are A-holes and there are also racist A-holes.  I’ve been in situations were cops have acted like complete A-holes to me or others.  If I was black and they were white, I’d have almost no choice but to conclude that they were racists.  Maybe they were just being A-holes?  
 

This is not to say there aren’t racists people or racist cops.

 

Also, I know a lot of great cops who truly want to protect and serve their community.

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3 hours ago, LJB said:

You don’t have an argument... you just claim he is a racist because he posted something that is race related and while incredibly stupid, was not factually incorrect...

go find one real “racist” public comment he has made and show it off...

what you just did is one of the major issues in this country...

I don’t like it or agree with what was said so I’ll just say the most heinous yet trite thing that is popular to say at the moment...

again... deplorable 

Hard to link a public comment when the guys deleted his twitter...

Looking at his content when it was still active, and his FB post, you don't have to reach very far to say the guy is very likely racist. I don't believe someone has to say "I am racist" in order to read between the lines. 

If you think his statement was factually correct, I don't know what to tell you. If you can in good faith say (to pick basically any part of that statement as an example..) "the democrats goal is to remove all enjoyment from society" is not "factually incorrect"...well you and me are reading a very different DNC platform (https://democrats.org/where-we-stand/party-platform/).

Edited by pawrestler

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32 minutes ago, pawrestler said:

Hard to link a public comment when the guys deleted his twitter...

Looking at his content when it was still active, and his FB post, you don't have to reach very far to say the guy is very likely racist. I don't believe someone has to say "I am racist" in order to read between the lines. 

If you think his statement was factually correct, I don't know what to tell you. If you can in good faith say (to pick basically any part of that statement as an example..) "the democrats goal is to remove all enjoyment from society" is not "factually incorrect"...well you and me are reading a very different DNC platform (https://democrats.org/where-we-stand/party-platform/).

but oh see easy to label him a racist under an anonymous screen name... nothing cowardly about that whale, huh?

again, just find and post a racist comment not just something you are told to not agree with based on party lines...

shouldn't be too hard to find something along those lines, right?

i mean it would "probably" be easy to find... or at least "very likely" be easy to find, right?

 

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22 minutes ago, LJB said:

but oh see easy to label him a racist under an anonymous screen name... nothing cowardly about that whale, huh?

again, just find and post a racist comment not just something you are told to not agree with based on party lines...

shouldn't be too hard to find something along those lines, right?

i mean it would "probably" be easy to find... or at least "very likely" be easy to find, right?

 

Well, considering he posted it originally under "ScrapLife" and not his own name, no I don't have a huge problem with commenting as pawrestler. If I heard him saying any of that in person I'd say something then and there if it makes you feel better, LJB.

As I said, he deleted his account, so there are no more public comments to link. Probably a smart move on his end. I know what I read though and can interpret any dog whistles (although his were pretty loud) myself. 

BTW, I don't get "told" anything along party lines, I just don't reject what my own eyes see.

 

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14 minutes ago, pawrestler said:

Well, considering he posted it originally under "ScrapLife" and not his own name, no I don't have a huge problem with commenting as pawrestler. If I heard him saying any of that in person I'd say something then and there if it makes you feel better, LJB.

As I said, he deleted his account, so there are no more public comments to link. Probably a smart move on his end. I know what I read though and can interpret any dog whistles (although his were pretty loud) myself. 

BTW, I don't get "told" anything along party lines, I just don't reject what my own eyes see.

 

hey, i am super pumped you are so noble... 

and i am also super pumped you interpretation skills are so keen...

furthermore, i am also super pumped that you don't follow any party lines...

i am so impressed with you that if you were to even be able to paraphrase something, nay, anything the man posted that was clearly racist, i might be inclined to take it into consideration... 

but, this silliness of "i know what i read" is just that... 

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8 hours ago, LJB said:

hey, i am super pumped you are so noble... 

and i am also super pumped you interpretation skills are so keen...

furthermore, i am also super pumped that you don't follow any party lines...

i am so impressed with you that if you were to even be able to paraphrase something, nay, anything the man posted that was clearly racist, i might be inclined to take it into consideration... 

but, this silliness of "i know what i read" is just that... 


LJB- why are you so defensive of someone who I assume you don’t know saying things that are at an absolute minimum highly divisive, borderline incoherent and just plain ignorant? 
 

At first I can never understand why others defend that kind of behavior until I realize it’s most likely because the people that do defend it are most likely in the same boat and share those views. That type of sensationalism and divisive rhetoric is why we can’t see past party affiliation let alone try to solve inequality issues that exist. 
 

I don’t disagree that some may call ‘racist’ at any drop of that hat and that’s not right, but this I think is clearly not one of those cases. Not all disgusting behavior and opinions should be defended ‘just because.’ Why not try taking another perspective or looking at this from another lens? 

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22 minutes ago, DoubleHalf said:

LJB- why are you so defensive of someone who I assume you don’t know saying things that are at an absolute minimum highly divisive, borderline incoherent and just plain ignorant? 
 

At first I can never understand why others defend that kind of behavior until I realize it’s most likely because the people that do defend it are most likely in the same boat and share those views. That type of sensationalism and divisive rhetoric is why we can’t see past party affiliation let alone try to solve inequality issues that exist. 

They want to make sure that only those that are stupid enough to drop the n-bomb directly can be racist. That way people can say whatever they want on a public forum, fully aware of the racial connotations and the effect it has in the general discussion, and brush it off as "just speaking my truth". He claims to be against divisiveness, but he will protect it all costs because 1. People take a lot of pride in being a contrarian. 2. Because they can paint everyone else as the mob, sheep etc. which serves his ego and 3. Because it allows them to speak from a soap box without ever really having a discussion or trying to understand where the other side is coming from.

Edited by russelscout

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