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2 minutes ago, russelscout said:

Didn't Castro write discrimination laws immediately after the coup? Didn't he offer asylum to African Americans during the civil rights? Didn't he support African revolutions? Im not saying he was a civil rights activist by any means. He was a ruthless dictator, but I would be curious to know what this is referring to:


Che and Fidel are not good guys. I won't defend them as people. However, I hate how they get brought up in discussion about America as if America=Good and Che and Fidel=bad. America and the support of Batista(who was probably worse than Fidel), the CIA backed coup of Guatemala, and really our countries entire foreign policy in Central and South America most certainly led to Che's motivations and likely Fidel's too. When that is taken into context, what they represent brings on a whole new meaning than just "bad guys".

I’m not going to get in a big argument with you but feel free to reach out to anyone that was lower class in Cuba and escaped to come here and your opinion on Castro will change believe me. Literally everything “positive “ you ever heard about Castro is propaganda, I had read similar things to you about Castro before I actually listened to first hand accounts from Cuban people 

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2 minutes ago, jchapman said:

The US Military industrial complex does not have sole claim to the US flag.

What a simple minded hollow response

 

the industrial complex is the P.O.S in the pentagon that have been on a mission to destroy the Middle East for 20 years, your right they don’t represent any of us and they can’t claim anything

but the millions upon millions of basically kids that have died senselessly because of those pentagon people , those that gave it all because they loved this place and died for our country sure as hell have claim to that flag 

Edited by Antitroll2828

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15 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

I’m not going to get in a big argument with you but feel free to reach out to anyone that was lower class in Cuba and escaped to come here and your opinion on Castro will change believe me. Literally everything “positive “ you ever heard about Castro is propaganda, I had read similar things to you about Castro before I actually listened to first hand accounts from Cuban people 

I am not referring to any propaganda. What is it that I said that you think is propaganda?

I asked you to reference something that outlines your description of Fidel as someone who treated all black citizens as absolute trash leading to a lot of deaths. I assume that you are unable to do so. You also don't really address anything that I said but essentially, "trust me, Im right on this."

Cuban history is much more complex than you are making it out to be. It was not all hunky dory when Castro came to power, and then all of a sudden it was just a mess. Most dictatorships are overthrown by another dictatorship. Frankly, I really doubt that you have read "similar things" to me on this topic. 

Edited by russelscout

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32 minutes ago, DoubleHalf said:

Hahah wow... Given your passion for the military and honoring them, you must really hate the sitting president given all the draft deferments...

I’m not a trump defender, but why is it that Muhammad Ali is a hero for not fighting in Vietnam, some people are war criminals for fighting in vietnam, but trumps a coward for not going?

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5 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

but the millions upon millions of basically kids that have died...

just because it is a thing...

millions and millions is extremely hyperbolic...

in fact, the total number of US military deaths is hovering around  1 million since the revolutionary war...

 

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7 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

What a simple minded hollow response

 

the industrial complex is the P.O.S in the pentagon that have been on a mission to destroy the Middle East for 20 years, your right they don’t represent any of us and they can’t claim anything

but the millions upon millions of basically kids that have died senselessly because of those pentagon people , those that gave it all because they loved this place and died for our country sure as hell have claim to that flag 

No one's saying they don't have a claim to the flag, bro. He's saying the don't have an EXCLUSIVE claim to the flag. What about the people who died in the World Trade Center on 9/11 or their families. Those people went to work just like any other day and many didn't come home because they were attacked from enemies who oppose freedom and the other principles America is founded. You're saying their surviving family have zero claim to the flag?

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12 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

What a simple minded hollow response

 

the industrial complex is the P.O.S in the pentagon that have been on a mission to destroy the Middle East for 20 years, your right they don’t represent any of us and they can’t claim anything

but the millions upon millions of basically kids that have died senselessly because of those pentagon people , those that gave it all because they loved this place and died for our country sure as hell have claim to that flag 

We agree that they have a claim.  We disagree, apparently, that they are the only ones who have a claim.

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12 minutes ago, jchapman said:

The US Military industrial complex does not have sole claim to the US flag.  
 

I get that you are saying that, I’m just pointing it out in general and accidentally quoted the last post.

Who said they do have sole claim?  Let me try again. All I’m saying is this: 


Kap started kneeling because a veteran told him it would be more respectful than sitting. 


I don’t like kneeling, at all. But I believe that if you believe in what the flag stands for and what the military has fought for, then you believe he has the right to do so. We don’t have to like it. But that’s part of the point of a protest. 

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2 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Who said they do have sole claim?  Let me try again. All I’m saying is this: 


Kap started kneeling because a veteran told him it would be more respectful than sitting. 


I don’t like kneeling, at all. But I believe that if you believe in what the flag stands for and what the military has fought for, then you believe he has the right to do so. We don’t have to like it. But that’s part of the point of a protest. 

Antitroll 

 

I had a typo, Lurker.  I meant to say you were not saying that.  I went back and edited.

Edited by jchapman

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2 minutes ago, lurk_nowitzki said:

No one's saying they don't have a claim to the flag, bro. He's saying the don't have an EXCLUSIVE claim to the flag. What about the people who died in the World Trade Center on 9/11 or their families. Those people went to work just like any other day and many didn't come home because they were attacked from enemies who oppose freedom and the other principles America is founded. You're saying their surviving family have zero claim to the flag?

I never said everyday people didn’t have claim to it...I was just responding to the stupid military industrial complex having a stake in the flag...Of course them and every other American has claim to the flag, my point was when talking about the military I was referring to the young men and woman who died not the scumbags that start all the wars

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6 minutes ago, LJB said:

just because it is a thing...

millions and millions is extremely hyperbolic...

in fact, the total number of US military deaths is hovering around  1 million since the revolutionary war...

 

Your correct for some reason I thought it was around 3 million 

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4 minutes ago, Lurker said:

I don’t like kneeling, at all. But I believe that if you believe in what the flag stands for and what the military has fought for, then you believe he has the right to do so. We don’t have to like it. But that’s part of the point of a protest. 

Lets be real, people up in arms about this were not upset about the sanctity of the flag. Its just an easy diversion from the issue Kap was raising. White people didn't and still don't want to hear it. JMO

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7 minutes ago, russelscout said:

I am not referring to any propaganda. What is it that I said that you think is propaganda?

I asked you to reference something that outlines your description of Fidel as someone who treated all black citizens as absolute trash leading to a lot of deaths. I assume that you are unable to do so.

Cuban history is much more complex than you are making it out to be. It was not all hunky dory when Castro came to power, and then all of a sudden it was just a mess. Most dictatorships are overthrown by another dictatorship. Frankly, I really doubt that you have read "similar things" to me on this topic. 

They weren’t aloud to hold any jobs of real power or authority, had more severe punishments for less crimes , could only marry there own, got used as scapegoats all the time. If your black and married a Cuban woman they would come burn your house down, not offered the same education and the lost goes...and a lot of this racism still goes on...Fidel accepted black Americans that supported Communism, he would allow cops killers and anti government group members escape to Cuba but shot  grandma in the head for trying to leave 

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Just now, Antitroll2828 said:

They weren’t aloud to hold any jobs of real power or authority, had more severe punishments for less crimes , could only marry there own, got used as scapegoats all the time. If your black and married a Cuban woman they would come burn your house down, not offered the same education and the lost goes...and a lot of this racism still goes on...Fidel accepted black Americans that supported Communism, he would allow cops killers and anti government group members escape to Cuba but shot  grandma in the head for trying to leave 

They were not in authority before Fidel either. Fidel did lead to less discrimination in employment. Like I said, he is not a civil rights activist, but I fail to understand how he treated black citizens worse than his predecessor. I can't speak to the house burning thing, but my guess is you can't either.

He was not a progressive on the issue of race really, but I fail to see how he is regressive as you seem to be trying to argue. 

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2 minutes ago, russelscout said:

Lets be real, people up in arms about this were not upset about the sanctity of the flag. Its just an easy diversion from the issue Kap was raising. White people didn't and still don't want to hear it. JMO

If you were any more full of it you’d burst at the seams...as I pointed out on this thread I’ve seen a ton of people suggest the same thing I suggested, everyone with locked arm take a knee for 30 seconds leading up to the anthem, then everyone stands for it, then when it ends everyone takes a knee together again...No “white person” would have a problem with that but yet when I see people suggest it they are called tone deaf or racist...and what issue was Kap raising? The blatant lie that cops kill and hurt black people more then anyone else? Because literally every statistic says otherwise, from the FBI database to Harvard studies show this. 

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5 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

If you were any more full of it you’d burst at the seams...as I pointed out on this thread I’ve seen a ton of people suggest the same thing I suggested, everyone with locked arm take a knee for 30 seconds leading up to the anthem, then everyone stands for it, then when it ends everyone takes a knee together again...No “white person” would have a problem with that but yet when I see people suggest it they are called tone deaf or racist...and what issue was Kap raising? The blatant lie that cops kill and hurt black people more then anyone else? Because literally every statistic says otherwise, from the FBI database to Harvard studies show this. 

Yes, Im sure you would love to dictate the way others protests. Unfortunately that's not really how that is supposed to work. Think about what you are actually suggesting there. "Hey minorities, I know you have an issue with the way you are being treated and all, but we have outlined a procedure that would be less offensive to us. Thanks and happy protesting!" You get called tone deaf because that is extremely tone deaf.

Edited by russelscout

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1 minute ago, russelscout said:

They were not in authority before Fidel either. Fidel did lead to less discrimination in employment. Like I said, he is not a civil rights activist, but I fail to understand how he treated black citizens worse than his predecessor. I can't speak to the house burning thing, but my guess is you can't either.

He was not a progressive on the issue of race really, but I fail to see how he is regressive as you seem to be trying to argue. 

Jesus Christ russlescout he was a brutal DICTATOR, do you understand how many people he killed and oppressed, and your over like “ well he treated black people better then guy before him” so what he let them work for a 1/4 pay but the guy before let them work for 1/8 pay? I’ve literally said in this thread and whatever one I was talking to Spey on the other day, 2 of my good friends are brothers that came here the same way AE did. Everything I’ve mentioned is directly from what they have told me they’ve seen and experienced . As I pointed out I didn’t think Cuba was that bad until I actually spoke with them about the horrors that go on there 

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to be 100% fair...

this country was founded on being able to speak your mind without fear of governmental reprisal...

peaceful protest is at the very cornerstone of that... that includes kneeling, marching, speeches, and yes, even burning of our flag...

to try and censor or dictate anyone else's actions that in no way cause harm to another, precious feelings aside, is in direct conflict with that principle...

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1 minute ago, Antitroll2828 said:

Jesus Christ russlescout he was a brutal DICTATOR, do you understand how many people he killed and oppressed, and your over like “ well he treated black people better then guy before him” so what he let them work for a 1/4 pay but the guy before let them work for 1/8 pay? I’ve literally said in this thread and whatever one I was talking to Spey on the other day, 2 of my good friends are brothers that came here the same way AE did. Everything I’ve mentioned is directly from what they have told me they’ve seen and experienced . As I pointed out I didn’t think Cuba was that bad until I actually spoke with them about the horrors that go on there 

I didn't deny that he was a brutal dictator nor did I say Cuba was some utopian country. You said something about his racism and treatment of black people to frame and argue a point. I thought and still think it lacked proper context and what you said was a bit misleading. 

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Just now, LJB said:

to be 100% fair...

this country was founded on being able to speak your mind without fear of governmental reprisal...

peaceful protest is at the very cornerstone of that... that includes kneeling, marching, speeches, and yes, even burning of our flag...

to try and censor or dictate anyone else's actions that in no way cause harm to another, precious feelings aside, is in direct conflict with that principle...

Holy crap! We agree on something!

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Just now, russelscout said:

Holy crap! We agree on something!

my suspicion is that at the core we agree on a great many things...

but, you are an emotional little fella and sometimes that gets the best of you...

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Just now, LJB said:

my suspicion is that at the core we agree on a great many things...

but, you are an emotional little fella and sometimes that gets the best of you...

I get accused of being emotional on here frequently and don't understand why. I feel like my posts are measured, defended carefully and thoroughly, and have very few exclamation points.

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Just now, russelscout said:

I get accused of being emotional on here frequently and don't understand why. I feel like my posts are measured, defended carefully and thoroughly, and have very few exclamation points.

there is a reason for the accusation...

just replace"passionate" for emotional and you should be able to sleep better at night...

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