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1 minute ago, russelscout said:

Yes, Im sure you would love to dictate the way others protests. Unfortunately that's not really how that is supposed to work. Think about what you are actually suggesting there. "Hey minorities, I know you have an issue with the way you are being treated and all, but we have outlined a procedure that would be less offensive to us. Thanks and happy protesting!"

Yet I’m sure you were outraged at the “white nationalists” “storming the state house in Michigan though right? 

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12 minutes ago, russelscout said:

I didn't deny that he was a brutal dictator nor did I say Cuba was some utopian country. You said something about his racism and treatment of black people to frame and argue a point. I thought and still think it lacked proper context and what you said was a bit misleading. 

I should have been more clear, Fidel treated almost everyone like garbage, but in fact treated black people worse then that, especially anywhere outside of Havana.

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8 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

Fidel treated almost everyone like garbage, but in fact treated black people worse then that, especially anywhere outside of Havana.

Bingo! A lot of people suffered under Fidel, especially when their economy tanked, but when it comes to people outside Havana I would argue that it was because of deep seated racism that was there before and after Fidel. Like I said, I was not trying to argue that Fidel was a saint. I just found it very strange that you would use his treatment of black people as a way to paint Kap's hypocrisy. Even Che. If you have ever read some of the Che's writings, did he write some harsh things about the black people he encountered? Yep, but he also did the same for about every person or group of people he commented on. He was quick to find fault.

Edited by russelscout

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23 minutes ago, russelscout said:

Bingo! A lot of people suffered under Fidel, especially when their economy tanked, but when it comes to people outside Havana I would argue that it was because of deep seated racism that was there before and after Fidel. Like I said, I was not trying to argue that Fidel was a saint. I just found it very strange that you would use his treatment of black people as a way to paint Kap's hypocrisy. Even Che. If you have ever read some of the Che's writings, did he write some harsh things about the black people he encountered? Yep, but he also did the same for about every person or group of people he commented on. He was quick to find fault.

My point at bringing up his Fidel comments was he praises a man , who even though was slightly better then his predecessor when it came to black people, still instituted laws that kept black people as second class citizens, and I believe until the 90s it was even a lesser murder charge for killing someone black , so it’s pretty foolish of him to bring up Fidel in any context while saying he’s protesting for black rights. You can’t praise a man that kept black people down while ,at the same time starting a protest that offends half America bc whatever message your trying to send went right out the window. Kap did more damage then good because if the focus was on Malcolm Jenkins , a whole lot more people would be on thre side. Jenkins went to inner cities talked with police, talked with citizens, helped start a community outreach thing so cops and citizens connect better, real life stuff, things that make real chsnges, not just cutting a check, talking some sh*t then disappearing while the country fights about it..

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5 minutes ago, Lurker said:

I’d agree with that

It’s laughable you view this as a white person thing, do you not understand that plenty Hispanics, Asians, the millions of immigrants who come here from all over the world for freedom and yes even some black people agree with “white people” when it comes to kneeling during the anthem. You act as if every non white person is for this method of protest and only white people are against it. 

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47 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

It’s laughable you view this as a white person thing, do you not understand that plenty Hispanics, Asians, the millions of immigrants who come here from all over the world for freedom and yes even some black people agree with “white people” when it comes to kneeling during the anthem. You act as if every non white person is for this method of protest and only white people are against it. 

Please let me know what comments led to that, because I don’t believe that at all and it it comes across that way I’ll change my language. I told russel I agree with what he said, although I should have pointed out more the first sentence than the last. But even with that, where did I imply anything about anyone from a particular race in concern with the flag. 
 

I have said several times, I DONT LIKE IT, but I appreciate their right to do so and I don’t feel it is disrespectful to the military as the are exercising the very rights the military is fighting for. That’s it. Nothing about any particular race it anything like that.

I like these conversations. But if you want to have them stick with what I actually say, not whatever context you want to group my words in. If you can’t do that....carry on. 

Edited by Lurker

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2 hours ago, Antitroll2828 said:

My point at bringing up his Fidel comments was he praises a man , who even though was slightly better then his predecessor when it came to black people, still instituted laws that kept black people as second class citizens, and I believe until the 90s it was even a lesser murder charge for killing someone black , so it’s pretty foolish of him to bring up Fidel in any context while saying he’s protesting for black rights. You can’t praise a man that kept black people down while ,at the same time starting a protest that offends half America bc whatever message your trying to send went right out the window. Kap did more damage then good because if the focus was on Malcolm Jenkins , a whole lot more people would be on thre side. Jenkins went to inner cities talked with police, talked with citizens, helped start a community outreach thing so cops and citizens connect better, real life stuff, things that make real chsnges, not just cutting a check, talking some sh*t then disappearing while the country fights about it..

Did Fidel keep black people down though, more down than his predecessor? ...because that is relevant. I just thought it was a weird example on your part. Fidel is know for a lot of terrible things and what you stated is not one of them.

By that logic there are a lot of presidents we need to reevaluate as a whole as they were not more progressive enough on the racial front. You see a lot of quotes from FDR out there, but the guy didn't end the Jim Crow south. He kept the black people down. Yet, I dont see people clamoring to use him as an example of racism. 

Like I said, I dont think your argument made sense. 

Edited by russelscout

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1 hour ago, Antitroll2828 said:

It’s laughable you view this as a white person thing, do you not understand that plenty Hispanics, Asians, the millions of immigrants who come here from all over the world for freedom and yes even some black people agree with “white people” when it comes to kneeling during the anthem. You act as if every non white person is for this method of protest and only white people are against it. 

Define plenty. You seem to have a good grasp on this. What have you seen, read, anything that makes you believe "plenty" of immigrants and minorities were up in arms over this? Anecdotally, it was only white people of a certain age who complained about it in my experience.

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Somehow kneeling during the anthem became conflated with disrespecting the flag or the military.  I often wonder had Trump not gone on a Twitter rant this would have blown over.

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2 minutes ago, 152lbs said:

Somehow kneeling during the anthem became conflated with disrespecting the flag or the military.  I often wonder had Trump not gone on a Twitter rant this would have blown over.

i am literally laughing over here...

 

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1 minute ago, 152lbs said:

Somehow kneeling during the anthem became conflated with disrespecting the flag or the military.  I often wonder had Trump not gone on a Twitter rant this would have blown over.

Or if he hadnt ranted about it during his speeches to crowds of cheering white people.

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4 minutes ago, 152lbs said:

We live in very interesting times.  Just curious who finds this offensive too.

GettyImages-527631592-e1549591093448.jpg

People weren't very happy with it at the time. I'm sure plenty had something to say about the proper way to protest. 

Edited by russelscout

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3 minutes ago, 152lbs said:

We live in very interesting times.  Just curious who finds this offensive too.

GettyImages-527631592-e1549591093448.jpg

you do realized they were booed off the podium and trump was nowhere around, right?

can't blame that on him...

BTW... thanks for the laugh... it was very welcome...

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18 minutes ago, 152lbs said:

Somehow kneeling during the anthem became conflated with disrespecting the flag or the military.  I often wonder had Trump not gone on a Twitter rant this would have blown over.

You do realize that the kneeling started under the Obama administration? And that people were upset with it at that time?

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I didn't say anything about Trump in the post.  I am talking about peaceful protests.  I am well aware of how it was received.  They were kicked out of the Olympic Village and sent home.  

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An under talked about aspect of Cuba is that the regime that preceded Castro was a far-right dictatorship and a puppet state of the US that brutally repressed Cubans. Castro very much had the support of the common people in Cuba.

While reprehensible, we cannot simply look at the crimes of the Castro regime in a vacuum. All around the world, Western powers, specifically the US/CIA, were toppling left leaning governments, brutally murdering thousands in the process. The repressive actions taken by Castro have to be looked at in this context because he was looking around the world and seeing any government that didn't have a vice grip on power be toppled and its leaders murdered. Allende in Chile is the prime example. Documents that have been declassified from the Nixon administration made it clear that Allende was toppled and murdered in Chile, not because he was a repressive communist, but because he had been successful in running a socialist democracy and this could not stand to be an inspiration for other countries in the region. Thus, he was murdered and the mass-murdering Pinochet was placed into power by the US. If you're Castro, how can you look around the world and not fear overthrow at every moment?

One of the biggest "what-ifs" of the 20th century is what would have happened to the socialist governments of the third world if they had not had to deal with the Western imperial powers actively threatening coups or actually carrying them out. Latin America might look a little closer to Scandinavia. That was certainly the direction they were heading before the wave of coups. Would Castro have been as repressive if the US hadn't tried to murder him for 40 years? No way of knowing unfortunately, but I can guarantee you it didn't help matters.

If you're interested in this type of history, I highly recommend the new book, The Jakarta Method by Vincent Bevins. He outlines US cold war policy in the third world starting with the US backed military coup in Indonesia that resulted in the murder and disappearing of a million people and how the methods developed there became the outline for the coups around the world through the 60s, 70s, and 80s (and now today with Bolivia).

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2 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

You do realize that the kneeling started under the Obama administration? And that people were upset with it at that time?

Yes, I am and I am also aware of Trump's Twitter rants then too.  

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Just now, LJB said:

you do realized they were booed off the podium and trump was nowhere around, right?

can't blame that on him...

BTW... thanks for the laugh... it was very welcome...

I dont think Trump is to blame for civil rights issues. I do think he is responsible for stoking the coals of racism within his base. People hate the term "white nationalism", but uniting white America through criticism of "the other" fits that name. 

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3 minutes ago, russelscout said:

I dont think Trump is to blame for civil rights issues. I do think he is responsible for stoking the coals of racism within his base. People hate the term "white nationalism", but uniting white America through criticism of "the other" fits that name. 

i pay no attention to any of the political garbage news that gets thrown out there... it is the same reason i will not watch "reality" TV or sitcoms... it is all for the absolute lowest common denominator...

so, this trump is racist crap i hear all the time doesn't really impress me... i view it just like i view the simpletons on this forum who have called beshada a racist, dupont a racist, me a racist... it is just simpletons shouting what they are told to shout when they are told to shout it...

the only thing i will say about trump is that he is wildly amusing from what i can tell and i do love the fact a reality TV star got elected as our president... if that does not prove to everyone that this is nothing but a fukn game i don't know what will...

 

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1 minute ago, LJB said:

i pay no attention to any of the political garbage news that gets thrown out there... it is the same reason i will not watch "reality" TV or sitcoms... it is all for the absolute lowest common denominator...

so, this trump is racist crap i hear all the time doesn't really impress me... i view it just like i view the simpletons on this forum who have called beshada a racist, dupont a racist, me a racist... it is just simpletons shouting what they are told to shout when they are told to shout it...

the only thing i will say about trump is that he is wildly amusing from what i can tell and i do love the fact a reality TV star got elected as our president... if that does not prove to everyone that this is nothing but a fukn game i don't know what will...

 

Just curious, what do you think I watch on TV? Clearly you have made assumptions about everyone. 

Let me summarize your post: You don't like or watch TV, therefore everyone else are simpletons if they think someone is racist, and you find trump amusing because it shows that everything is broken. Talk about non sequiturs. You're going to break an ankle making those kind of jumps. 

Honestly, you just sound like an old man ranting who takes pride in his own cynicism. 

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