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Top 5 Penn State wrestlers of all time

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4 hours ago, Mokoma said:

Seemed to be in doubt when he was getting decked by Bubba.

Taylor's 0 fer 11 vs Dake gives a bit of a doubt.

Getting skunked rarely happens in any sport.  The skunkee always finds a way to pull one out.

 

Edited by headshuck

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2 hours ago, headshuck said:

Taylor's 0 fer 11 vs Dake gives a bit of a doubt.

Getting skunked rarely happens in any sport.  The skunkee always finds a way to pull one out.

 

You think if they wrestled at a Beat the Streets next month, Dake would still beat Taylor?

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7 hours ago, ShakaAloha said:

You think if they wrestled at a Beat the Streets next month, Dake would still beat Taylor?

At 79kg, I would bet on Dake... I still think he is the better wrestler. If there’s no weigh in, I don’t think Dake is that much better that he can give up that kind of weight to an elite wrestler like Taylor and still win. 

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6 hours ago, Eagle26 said:

At 79kg, I would bet on Dake... I still think he is the better wrestler. If there’s no weigh in, I don’t think Dake is that much better that he can give up that kind of weight to an elite wrestler like Taylor and still win. 

I wouldn’t look past Taylor so easily. He’s struggled with Dake in past years, but since 2018 he’s beaten Yazdani and Kurugliev, among other truly elite wrestlers.

Edited by Katie

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9 hours ago, Eagle26 said:

At 79kg, I would bet on Dake... I still think he is the better wrestler. If there’s no weigh in, I don’t think Dake is that much better that he can give up that kind of weight to an elite wrestler like Taylor and still win. 

What about if they both had to make 86kg scratch?  

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15 minutes ago, ShakaAloha said:

What about if they both had to make 86kg scratch?  

Just not a great argument if you are solely trying to say who the better wrestler is. 

For instance, who would win at 141, Spencer Lee or Luke Pletcher?  Who is the better wrestler?

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1 hour ago, MSU158 said:

Just not a great argument if you are solely trying to say who the better wrestler is. 

For instance, who would win at 141, Spencer Lee or Luke Pletcher?  Who is the better wrestler?

I'm not trying to say who the better wrestler is.  The better wrestler is clearly Kyle Dake.  He has beaten Taylor in the NCAA Finals, the Olympic Trials at 86kg in 2016, and every match they have ever wrestled as adults.  

The question I am trying to ask is has David Taylor gotten bigger and better since 2016 to the point that he can now beat Dake in a UWW match at 86kg?  I think Dake is better but with the handicap of the match being at 86kg, would that make it possible for Taylor to finally pull out a W?

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5 hours ago, MSU158 said:

Just not a great argument if you are solely trying to say who the better wrestler is. 

For instance, who would win at 141, Spencer Lee or Luke Pletcher?  Who is the better wrestler?

Spencer Lee.  Not close.

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If David Taylor didn't threaten to drop a weight to avenge his freestyle loss to Dake, Dake may not have gone up a weight and Taylor would end with 1 college loss and only a handful of regular decision wins.  He'd be #1 in that case


did Bo go up 2 weight classes?  That's also impressive.  He doesn't seem that big and Cael makes a lot of those decisions for the team (I think that's also why Ruth went up)

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On 6/20/2020 at 6:46 PM, ScarletKnight said:

If David Taylor didn't threaten to drop a weight to avenge his freestyle loss to Dake, Dake may not have gone up a weight and Taylor would end with 1 college loss and only a handful of regular decision wins.  He'd be #1 in that case

Crazy to think that Penn State has been so stacked in the Cael era that a loss in the NCAA finals to Dake drops Taylor to 5th in many people's rankings!

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It's tough to rank these 5. Their combined collegiate records are 633-15 with 271 falls, and they possess 14 NCAA Titles along with 5 Hodge Trophies. 

 

Bo Nickal

NCAA Placement: 2-1-1-1

Career Record: 120-3, 59 falls, 76.4% bonus rate

Losses: Nate Jackson, Myles Martin (2x)

Finals Wins: Dean, Martin, Moore

 

Ed Ruth

NCAA Placement: 3-1-1-1

Career Record: 136-3, 46 falls, 74.8% bonus rate

Losses: Mike Letts, Nick Amuchastegui, Gabe Dean

Finals Wins: Amuchastegui, Hamlin, Sheptock

 

David Taylor

NCAA Placement: 2-1-2-1

Career Record: 134-3, 53 falls, 91.2% bonus rate

Losses: Bubba Jenkins, Kyle Dake (2x)

Finals Wins: Hatchet, Caldwell

 

Jason Nolf

NCAA Placement: 2-1-1-1

Career Record: 117-3, 60 falls, 85.8% bonus rate

Losses: Isaiah Martinez (2x), John Van Brill

Finals Wins: Lavallee, Hidlay, Berger

 

Zain Retherford

NCAA Placement: 5-1-1-1

Career Record: 126-3, 53 falls, 73.6% bonus rate

Losses: Logan Stieber (2x), Mitchell Port

Finals Wins: Sorenson, Mayes, Perry

 

 

IMO, Nickal has the best wins of the group (his 3 finals' opponents were all very elite). Taylor was the most dominant and faced the toughest single opponent (Dake). Retherford has the most perfect seasons (and all of his losses came as a true freshman) and owns the best single win (Stieber). These 3 are also the ones with a Hodge trophy, and I would rank them in some order of 1-3. I would then put Nolf and Ruth at some order of 4-5. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, pamela said:

Who would be on the second team?

 

McCoy, Cenzo, Q, who else? Abe? Martin?

I'd go: 

 

Mark Hall

NCAA Placements: 1-2-2-cancelled

Career Record: 113-6, 41 falls, 62.2% bonus rate

Rationale: Hall is very, very good. He's #7 all-time in both win % and career falls. He's also 8th all-time in career bonus % at PSU--despite the flack he gets for not being an offensive dynamo. His only losses at the NCAAs is to another great of the current era: Zahid Valencia--and he's actually even with him in official college matches (2-2). 

 

Vincenzo Joseph 

NCAA Placements: 1-1-2-cancelled

Career Record: 87-8, 26 falls, 59% bonus rate

Rationale: 2x champ, 3x finalist with wins over Isaiah Martinez in both of his championship victories. His career losses:  Martinez (3x), Marinelli (2x), Lewis, Isaac Jordan, and Subjeck. 

 

Kerry McCoy

NCAA Placements: DNP-1-3-1

Career Record: 150-18, 34 falls, 39.1% bonus rate

Rationale: '97 Hodge winner, #2 all-time in career wins.

 

Quentin Wright

NCAA Placements: 6-1-2-1

Career Record: 116-23, 38 falls, 45.3% bonus rate

Rationale: I think he's the only other 3x finalist. I could be wrong. 

 

 

For spot #5, I think you can make a case from a number of PSU lightweights: Megaludis (2-2-3-1), Abe (4-3-2-1), Martin (4-2-1-3),  or Prescott (DNQ-5-1-1). Andy Matter (2x champ) also belongs in the discussion. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, goStanford18 said:

It's tough to rank these 5. Their combined collegiate records are 633-15 with 271 falls, and they possess 14 NCAA Titles along with 5 Hodge Trophies. 

 

Bo Nickal

NCAA Placement: 2-1-1-1

Career Record: 120-3, 59 falls, 76.4% bonus rate

Losses: Nate Jackson, Myles Martin (2x)

Finals Wins: Dean, Martin, Moore

 

Ed Ruth

NCAA Placement: 3-1-1-1

Career Record: 136-3, 46 falls, 74.8% bonus rate

Losses: Mike Letts, Nick Amuchastegui, Gabe Dean

Finals Wins: Amuchastegui, Hamlin, Sheptock

 

David Taylor

NCAA Placement: 2-1-2-1

Career Record: 134-3, 53 falls, 91.2% bonus rate

Losses: Bubba Jenkins, Kyle Dake (2x)

Finals Wins: Hatchet, Caldwell

 

Jason Nolf

NCAA Placement: 2-1-1-1

Career Record: 117-3, 60 falls, 85.8% bonus rate

Losses: Isaiah Martinez (2x), John Van Brill

Finals Wins: Lavallee, Hidlay, Berger

 

Zain Retherford

NCAA Placement: 5-1-1-1

Career Record: 126-3, 53 falls, 73.6% bonus rate

Losses: Logan Stieber (2x), Mitchell Port

Finals Wins: Sorenson, Mayes, Perry

 

 

IMO, Nickal has the best wins of the group (his 3 finals' opponents were all very elite). Taylor was the most dominant and faced the toughest single opponent (Dake). Retherford has the most perfect seasons (and all of his losses came as a true freshman) and owns the best single win (Stieber). These 3 are also the ones with a Hodge trophy, and I would rank them in some order of 1-3. I would then put Nolf and Ruth at some order of 4-5. 

 

 

Looking at everything comprehensively the way you lay it out here, to me Nolf looks like the clear 1.  Taylor, of whom I’m a big fan,  seems to gain a lot from hype.  I would like to see him in a real match with Nickal at 86.

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10 hours ago, goStanford18 said:

I'd go: 

 

Mark Hall

NCAA Placements: 1-2-2-cancelled

Career Record: 113-6, 41 falls, 62.2% bonus rate

Rationale: Hall is very, very good. He's #7 all-time in both win % and career falls. He's also 8th all-time in career bonus % at PSU--despite the flack he gets for not being an offensive dynamo. His only losses at the NCAAs is to another great of the current era: Zahid Valencia--and he's actually even with him in official college matches (2-2). 

 

Vincenzo Joseph 

NCAA Placements: 1-1-2-cancelled

Career Record: 87-8, 26 falls, 59% bonus rate

Rationale: 2x champ, 3x finalist with wins over Isaiah Martinez in both of his championship victories. His career losses:  Martinez (3x), Marinelli (2x), Lewis, Isaac Jordan, and Subjeck. 

 

Kerry McCoy

NCAA Placements: DNP-1-3-1

Career Record: 150-18, 34 falls, 39.1% bonus rate

Rationale: '97 Hodge winner, #2 all-time in career wins.

 

Quentin Wright

NCAA Placements: 6-1-2-1

Career Record: 116-23, 38 falls, 45.3% bonus rate

Rationale: I think he's the only other 3x finalist. I could be wrong. 

 

 

For spot #5, I think you can make a case from a number of PSU lightweights: Megaludis (2-2-3-1), Abe (4-3-2-1), Martin (4-2-1-3),  or Prescott (DNQ-5-1-1). Andy Matter (2x champ) also belongs in the discussion. 

That looks pretty good... I went with Jim Martin because I think he’s PSU all-time wins leader. McCoy gets bonus ranking points for winning the Hodge. Hall also deserves credit for wrestling-through without taking a shirt. I can’t remember if Q took a RS (sorta remembering that he did). Maybe Abe for also being an Olympian and 3x B1G winner - does PSU have Olympic medalists? 

Also from the previous list, I think guys like Ruth and DT deserve some credit for being 4x B1G champs. I know it’s not nearly as sexy as winning a title, but the Big Ten is a really tough conference. Conversely, I’d move Cenzo down the list for not winning B1Gs during his career and it’s 50-50 that he would have beaten Marinelli at this past season’s conference tournament.

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1 hour ago, pamela said:

That looks pretty good... I went with Jim Martin because I think he’s PSU all-time wins leader. McCoy gets bonus ranking points for winning the Hodge. Hall also deserves credit for wrestling-through without taking a shirt. I can’t remember if Q took a RS (sorta remembering that he did). Maybe Abe for also being an Olympian and 3x B1G winner - does PSU have Olympic medalists? 

Also from the previous list, I think guys like Ruth and DT deserve some credit for being 4x B1G champs. I know it’s not nearly as sexy as winning a title, but the Big Ten is a really tough conference. Conversely, I’d move Cenzo down the list for not winning B1Gs during his career and it’s 50-50 that he would have beaten Marinelli at this past season’s conference tournament.

Yup, Martin is the all-time wins leader. My only issue with putting him on the second-team is that he might not even be the greatest 125 lber in PSU history because of the names above (Megaludis, Abe, and Prescott). I believe Q went as a true freshman then redshirted the following season. I also think Joseph is for sure on the second team due to his resume at the NCAAs, but he does deserve criticism for not getting it done at the B1Gs. I just realized Hall and Joseph's records above did not include the 2020 B1G tournament matches (but TBH, it doesn't make much of a difference). 

 

10 hours ago, Sstern said:

Looking at everything comprehensively the way you lay it out here, to me Nolf looks like the clear 1.  Taylor, of whom I’m a big fan,  seems to gain a lot from hype.  I would like to see him in a real match with Nickal at 86.

 

What makes Nolf #1 for you?

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Ran it with a rough top ten generated from those listed in this thread:

Pigtails:

9. Abe dec. 8. McCoy

7. Hall dec. 10. Megauldis

Quarters:

1. Nickal pin. 9. Abe

4. Nolf mdec 5. Retherford

2. Ruth mdec 7. Hall

6. Joseph UPSETS by dec 3. Taylor

Semis:

1. Nickal dec 4. Nolf 

2. Ruth mdec 6. Joseph

Finals

2. Ruth dec 1. Nickal

The best PSU wrestler is Edward Lee Ruth. I will not be taking questions at this time.

 

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5 hours ago, GoNotQuietly said:

Ran it with a rough top ten generated from those listed in this thread:

Pigtails:

9. Abe dec. 8. McCoy

7. Hall dec. 10. Megauldis

Quarters:

1. Nickal pin. 9. Abe

4. Nolf mdec 5. Retherford

2. Ruth mdec 7. Hall

6. Joseph UPSETS by dec 3. Taylor

Semis:

1. Nickal dec 4. Nolf 

2. Ruth mdec 6. Joseph

Finals

2. Ruth dec 1. Nickal

The best PSU wrestler is Edward Lee Ruth. I will not be taking questions at this time.

 

You deserve kudos, sir. So, let's see a seeded, explained best of each school. 

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You deserve kudos, sir. So, let's see a seeded, explained best of each school. 

Haha I don’t know if I could fully explain this one, I was just goofing off on my lunch break. I would love to see some expert analysis on best of each college brackets too, though


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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