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Potential for no Greco in 2024 Olympics?

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9 minutes ago, Ogalthorpe Haywood said:

The same old arguments still hold weight. 

no, they do not...

you have no clue outside of your bubble...

trust me, your bubble is small and clearly no light gets through...

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6 hours ago, uncle bernard said:

The problem isn't that Greco is losing fans. The problem is that it's not generating new ones. A long time Greco fan can appreciate the nuanced handfighting and positioning that dominate the sport currently. A new fan cannot. All they see is two guys pushing in the center of the mat and nothing happening.

I agree that the "nothing's happening" factor hurts Greco for the casual observer. The rules also don't make it easy for Greco fans to appreciate the product right now. It feels like a lot of matches end because the refs arbitrarily pick one guy to put into forced par terre, then the guy on top gets a turn or two and puts the match out of reach. 

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Adding in the “dirty greco” idea of leg trips/sweeps (just no hand holds on the legs) would open up more movement and attacks which at least spices it up some from a viewers standpoint.  I’d rather go with that than going the route of eliminating greco complete.

Edited by MadMardigain

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3 minutes ago, MadMardigain said:

Adding in the “dirty greco” idea of leg trips/sweeps (just no and holds on the legs) would open up more movement and attacks which at least spices it up some from a viewers standpoint.  I’d rather go with that than going the route of eliminating greco complete.

for the record, i have no problem at all with dirty greco...

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17 minutes ago, LJB said:

for the record, i have no problem at all with dirty greco...

I’m assuming two road blocks would prevent it.  One the traditionalists in charge that don’t want to see greco change at all even to the point it may get removed.  And two adding in sweeps and trips would make some in the IOC feel Greco is starting to look to similar to Judo. Thus why keep both of them around.  Judo had eliminated leg grab related takedowns awhile back due in part to the need to distinguish it more from Freestyle wrestling.  
 

And if they are adding a combat sport I’drather see a form of No gi bbj or just “grappling” than beach wrestling.  Though those sports also look similar to the grounded parts of greco or judo.  But on a positive it opens the door to more medals for some counties that don’t usually rack up a tons. 

Edited by MadMardigain

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7 minutes ago, MadMardigain said:

I’m assuming two road blocks would prevent it.  One the traditionalists in charge that don’t want to see greco change at all even to the point it may get removed.  And two adding in sweeps and trips would make some in the IOC feel Greco is starting to look to similar to Judo and this why keep both of them around.  Judo eliminated leg grab related takedowns awhile back due in part to the need to distinguish it more from Freestyle wrestling. 

while i can't speak to the judo end, it makes sense...

realistically, i don't see it changing for more reasons than i am privy too... and i do not necessarily want it to go to dirty greco or some variation, but, there is little doubt it would add something to the action...

i still do not see beach wrestling replacing it anytime soon... just seems a little hokey as a legitimate sport... a definite fun avenue for older guys to compete... and apparently it does lend itself to more upper body attacks because you can really shoot in sand... i keep meaning to watch some but have not put my mind to it yet...

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12 hours ago, pamela said:

Would it be worth it to get all the World weight classes (and then some, maybe) for MFS/WFS in the Olympics?

Or all WFS and Greco! People refuse to believe that it is just as popular throughout the world as MFS. I'm  not much of a fan but it is what it is. 

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Looks like someone is a sensitive Sally lol. Grow some thicker skin it’s really a pathetic look. 
So the answer is no. I'm not surprised though.

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5 hours ago, ConnorsDad said:

Or all WFS and Greco! People refuse to believe that it is just as popular throughout the world as MFS. I'm  not much of a fan but it is what it is. 

I don't think GR has as much fan enthusiasm as FS even globally, but it does seem to have a wider variety of nations that are able to consistently win medals. 

Edited by Shiraz123

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Greco isn’t my favorite style but I’ll watch it if it’s on TV because it’s wrestling and I’ll follow how the US athletes are doing at worlds/olympics but I don’t seek out Greco. I liken Greco to high level jiu-jitsu. There is a lot of technique and strategy going on in matches that are only noticed by people that do that sport. To the outsider watching, it looks boring and just people pushing all the time or people just laying on each other, but there’s actually a lot going on. I don’t want to see any wrestling eliminated because they already tried removing it from the olympics before and taking out Greco would just be a gateway to further removal.

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24 minutes ago, GoNotQuietly said:

The best and most exciting wrestling style would be freestyle neutral with greco par-terre. Replace leg laces with big lifts and suplexes, what's not to love?

you are not going to get the high amplitude throws with leg grabbers...

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you are not going to get the high amplitude throws with leg grabbers...

They couldn’t grab your legs, though. Sh*t Bonne-Rodriguez launches people even when they do grab legs, not everyone in the world is a folk style rider. I think someone like Dake would annihilate people with lifts


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1 minute ago, GoNotQuietly said:

They couldn’t grab your legs, though. Sh*t Bonne-Rodriguez launches people even when they do grab legs, not everyone in the world is a folk style rider. I think someone like Dake would annihilate people with lifts

there is nothing stopping anyone from doing this now...

there is a reason you see few 5s in free... 

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8 hours ago, Shiraz123 said:

I don't think GR has as much fan enthusiasm as FS even globally, but it does seem to have a wider variety of nations that are able to consistently win medals. 

I would say you're probably 100% correct. I was just doing that to make a point. There are almost as many countries who would raise a stink about no Greco as they would no freestyle for men.

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1 hour ago, LJB said:

there is nothing stopping anyone from doing this now...

there is a reason you see few 5s in free... 

Maybe I wasn't clear>? When i say Freestyle neutral Greco par-terre, I mean Freestyle rules on the feet and Greco rules on the ground.  So yeah, you would obviously see more 5s if people couldn't grab your legs, that's my suggestion.

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8 minutes ago, GoNotQuietly said:

Maybe I wasn't clear>? When i say Freestyle neutral Greco par-terre, I mean Freestyle rules on the feet and Greco rules on the ground.  So yeah, you would obviously see more 5s if people couldn't grab your legs, that's my suggestion.

while i would not be against that for free at all, i still prefer greco as is... it is a fight and it is almost entirely technique based...

you can't run in greco like you can in some respects in free and are absolutely rewarded for in folk... you have to engage... 

it is a much more satisfying form of competition...

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You're preaching to the choir, but I don't see any way that Greco survives as an Olympic sport (unless maybe Women's Greco becomes massively and rapidly popular worldwide).  Absolutely my favorite style to compete in (my picture is from the University WTT), but we have to do something to change the participant and viewership dynamics or it's living on borrowed time, imho.

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18 minutes ago, GoNotQuietly said:

You're preaching to the choir, but I don't see any way that Greco survives as an Olympic sport (unless maybe Women's Greco becomes massively and rapidly popular worldwide).  Absolutely my favorite style to compete in (my picture is from the University WTT), but we have to do something to change the participant and viewership dynamics or it's living on borrowed time, imho.

i am not sure if there is anything that can be done without turning it into (and ruining) a different sport...

and if that happens then what was the point anyway?

but, to be fair... if it was removed from the olympics it would still survive and be contested around the world and it would still be the best style of wrestling... 

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9 minutes ago, LJB said:

i am not sure if there is anything that can be done without turning it into (and ruining) a different sport...

and if that happens then what was the point anyway?

but, to be fair... if it was removed from the olympics it would still survive and be contested around the world and it would still be the best style of wrestling... 

 

In many ways, being freed from the IOC would be a massive improvement in and of itself.  

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20 hours ago, GoNotQuietly said:

Maybe I wasn't clear>? When i say Freestyle neutral Greco par-terre, I mean Freestyle rules on the feet and Greco rules on the ground.  So yeah, you would obviously see more 5s if people couldn't grab your legs, that's my suggestion.

Are you suggesting when a leg attack from neutral forces action to the ground, the ref will signal 'par terre' and legs are out?  Or once a TD is awarded legs are  out?  If not, how do we get in the par terre position?

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10 hours ago, Plasmodium said:

Are you suggesting when a leg attack from neutral forces action to the ground, the ref will signal 'par terre' and legs are out?  Or once a TD is awarded legs are  out?  If not, how do we get in the par terre position?

 

TD awarded would be my thinking.  Similar to how you can lock hands in folkstyle neutral, but you have to let go when they TD is awarded.

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On 6/23/2020 at 6:11 PM, GoNotQuietly said:

You're preaching to the choir, but I don't see any way that Greco survives as an Olympic sport (unless maybe Women's Greco becomes massively and rapidly popular worldwide).  Absolutely my favorite style to compete in (my picture is from the University WTT), but we have to do something to change the participant and viewership dynamics or it's living on borrowed time, imho.

Not with Russia and Iran, same as freestyle.

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