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Frank_Rizzo

Cael > Dake - just the facts

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Look, I couldn't be a bigger fan of Dake, but Cael was still on another level in college. Some of the guys he laid waste to for those of you who say Dake faced better competition:

 

Brandon Eggum (multiple times) - World silver medalist

 

Brad Vering (multiple times) - national champ, World silver medalist, 2x Olympian

 

Andy Hrovat (multiple times) - Olympian

 

Daniel Cormier (multiple times) - Olympian, World bronze medalist

 

Justin Ruiz - World bronze medalist, 6x World team member

 

Mark Munoz (multiple times) - national champ

 

Damian Hahn - 2x national champ

 

Rob Rohn - national champ

 

I'm not even going to bother to list other monsters of the sport like Jon Trenge and other multiple-time all-americans who Cael regularly majored, teched, or pinned because it would take too long.

 

Cael also made the 2001 World team while still in college. Dake is one of the best ever, but Cael was even better in college. Just a fact.

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Glad to see one of Dake's biggest fans speak out on this.

 

As a PSU fan, I have become a HUGE Kyle Dake fan. It still doesn't allow me to get caught in the moment saying he is the best ever or had a better career than a guy that smoked competition and going undefeated while doing so.

 

Props to both!

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I can't even believe a thread like this even needs to be made on an actual wrestling forum.

 

Yes, let's not compare and contrast all-time greats. Because no one ever does that with players from other sports. No one has ever compared Babe Ruth to Hank Aaron, after all.

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I can't even believe a thread like this even needs to be made on an actual wrestling forum.

 

Yes, let's not compare and contrast all-time greats. Because no one ever does that with players from other sports. No one has ever compared Babe Ruth to Hank Aaron, after all.

I'm agreeing with you and saying that it's absurd that it even needs to be pointed out, brother.

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We're any of those guys the defending Hodge winner let alone at a weightclass above?

Kind of hard for Cael to beat the defending Hodge winner when he himself kept winning the Hodge.

AnklePicker, you were just OWNED.

 

Nice work jchapman.

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Am I the only one that thinks putting senior level results that happened years later in makes it sound like the high school and youth parents who say 'yeah, my son isn't wrestling anymore but he dominated everyone and the guys he use to beat are now state champs and college all-americans.' (Sent via mobile)

 

Edit: Burroughs was about .500 his first year starting, do all the guys that beat him get the same credit over an Olympic Gold Medalist? While true they beat a guy that won Gold they did not beat a Gold Medalist level wrestler. We all know the Burroughs of today is so much different than the Burroughs of yesterday.

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We're any of those guys the defending Hodge winner let alone at a weightclass above?

Kind of hard for Cael to beat the defending Hodge winner when he himself kept winning the Hodge.

 

Funny and true. When Dake moved weight classes, opportunities arose for his opposition to acquire hardware. While Cael's opponent couldn't get their cars started.

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Am I the only one that thinks putting senior level results that happened years later in makes it sound like the high school and youth parents who say 'yeah, my son isn't wrestling anymore but he dominated everyone and the guys he use to beat are now state champs and college all-americans.' (Sent via mobile)

 

Edit: Burroughs was about .500 his first year starting, do all the guys that beat him get the same credit over an Olympic Gold Medalist? While true they beat a guy that won Gold they did not beat a Gold Medalist level wrestler. We all know the Burroughs of today is so much different than the Burroughs of yesterday.

 

You are right. But realize that this works both ways. If you take away the credentials that were earned later of the guys Cael beat...you must do the same for Dake.

 

So in his finals wins, he did not beat 3 National champs - only 1. :twisted:

 

But seriously - to the point of this thread...the people on here saying that Dake had much tougher competition than Cael - or that Cael had weak competition - just wow. It is astonishing how ignorant of a statement that is.

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Owned? Calm down douche. He could have beat the hodge winner as a freshman and as a sophomore. Dumb argument because the hodge winner may not have been in his weight but my point is Dake didn't beat chopped liver. The last two guys he beat were NCAA champs the next year and would have probably been two timers had it not been for dake.

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Dake's opponents in college were more credentialed in college than Cael's were. I think it's hilarious that for months we were hearing how a freestyle match between two guys still in college didn't mean anything, but now post-college GRECO results count.

 

So is everyone that beat Rulon in folkstyle in college at a 2x World Champ level? Everyone that beat Jamil Kelly in college is Olympic medalist material?

 

Cormier DNP'd at the NCAA's the year before Cael beat him. Ruiz, Hrovat, Eggum and Vering were very good college wrestlers, but not as great as Taylor (obviously), St. John and Molinaro. Probably not even Marion.

 

Could/would Cael have beaten guys as good as the guys Dake beat? Definitely. But it didn't happen.

 

Of course making the World team while still in college is a great accomplishment. But again, I thought freestyle doesn't count? Or it only counts when PSU folks want it to count?

 

I personally think that Cael was probably "better" than Dake, but there isn't a way to "prove" it based on who they wrestled. That favors Dake, as does the multiple weight classes and lack of redshirt. On paper, Dake had the more accomplished college career. On the mat, with your eyes, hard to go against Cael.

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On paper, Dake had the more accomplished college career. On the mat, with your eyes, hard to go against Cael.

 

You had a very logical and well thought out argument up until this.

 

How can Dake's career look better/more accomplished "on paper" than 159-0 with 4 Titles and 3 Hodge Trophies? :lol:

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Who gave Dake his 4 losses?

 

Reece Humphrey

Zack Bailey

Kevin LeValley

Donnie VInson

 

Who beat Cael during his redshirt year? How tough was that redshirt schedule? When comparing apples to apples, Dake becomes even more impressive, no redshirt and 4 different weight classes.

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Look, I couldn't be a bigger fan of Dake, but Cael was still on another level in college. Some of the guys he laid waste to for those of you who say Dake faced better competition:

 

Brandon Eggum (multiple times) - World silver medalist

 

Brad Vering (multiple times) - national champ, World silver medalist, 2x Olympian

 

Andy Hrovat (multiple times) - Olympian

 

Daniel Cormier (multiple times) - Olympian, World bronze medalist

 

Justin Ruiz - World bronze medalist, 6x World team member

 

Mark Munoz (multiple times) - national champ

 

Damian Hahn - 2x national champ

 

Rob Rohn - national champ

 

I'm not even going to bother to list other monsters of the sport like Jon Trenge and other multiple-time all-americans who Cael regularly majored, teched, or pinned because it would take too long.

 

Cael also made the 2001 World team while still in college. Dake is one of the best ever, but Cael was even better in college. Just a fact.

Amen brother! Oh so true.

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Who gave Dake his 4 losses?

 

Reece Humphrey

Zack Bailey

Kevin LeValley

Donnie VInson

 

Who beat Cael during his redshirt year? How tough was that redshirt schedule? When comparing apples to apples, Dake becomes even more impressive, no redshirt and 4 different weight classes.

 

Apples to apples...what are you talking about?

 

Cael lost to Paul Jenn his RS year 6-4. He subsequently beat him 3 times: by maj. and 2 tech falls.

 

Wait, Dake won at 4 different weight class and didn't redshirt?! No way I don't think anybody knew!! :?

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Who gave Dake his 4 losses?

 

Reece Humphrey

Zack Bailey

Kevin LeValley

Donnie VInson

 

Who beat Cael during his redshirt year? How tough was that redshirt schedule? When comparing apples to apples, Dake becomes even more impressive, no redshirt and 4 different weight classes.

 

My guess would be that posters that are younger than 24 would automatically assume that Dake is better. You weren't old enough to remember the guys Sanderson wrestled or understand what their qualifications were. It is the reason that you must be at least 35 years old to run for Senate. You have to experience in life, and not look at your teenage life as the basis of all that is relevant.

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