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Fantastic Article from Open Mat regarding BTS

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1 hour ago, LJB said:

no... i am not on twitter and for good reason...

there has been no mention of any bias or censoring...

non-sensical?

how many articles were on that site about rooftop on the rumble other than the one whining about flo?

 

there is no surprise your chapped a$$ would jump on anything anti-flo...

 

I think this is the big hang up. If you're not on twitter, you completely missed where this dynamic was most obvious and the source of the article. The entire wrestling community was hyping this event...except for the Flo guys. Coupled with the tweet about "getting to watch live wrestling in 2 weeks" this silence was deafening from the guys who love to talk about "growing the sport."

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Just now, uncle bernard said:

I think this is the big hang up. If you're not on twitter, you completely missed where this dynamic was most obvious and the source of the article. The entire wrestling community was hyping this event...except for the Flo guys. Coupled with the tweet about "getting to watch live wrestling in 2 weeks" this silence was deafening from the guys who love to talk about "growing the sport."

i am not on twitter because i don't care to be...

following on twitter is only going to get me the whining and complaining, false accusations, bickering, and a bunch of awful takes on things...

i am not interested in doing that anywhere but here... 

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2 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

precisely Bernard

so, if i don't choose to follow the drama, then i am not following the sport good enough for you?

how many articles were on TOM about the event?

seems like a simple question that you are totally ignoring repeatedly...

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1 minute ago, LJB said:

how many articles?

You're missing the point. In the couple days leading up to the event, all of wrestling twitter was promoting it. You even had guys like Cliff Fretwell buying PPV for strangers who couldn't afford it (big shout out to Cliff).The only ones that weren't were the flo guys. Makes it even worse that it's a charity event. If you're not on twitter, you completely missed that dynamic.

You can defend the reasoning all you want, but it's a bad look when you constantly talk about growing wrestling when the reality is that it's "grow wrestling (as long as it aligns with our business interests)."

Flo is obviously adding a lot of value to the community, but they also have to deal with criticism when they openly eschew what's in the best interest of the sport for their bottom line.

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4 minutes ago, LJB said:

i am not on twitter because i don't care to be...

following on twitter is only going to get me the whining and complaining, false accusations, bickering, and a bunch of awful takes on things...

i am not interested in doing that anywhere but here... 

I'm not trying to get you on twitter. In fact, I just deleted twitter yesterday because it was too distracting for me, so I agree with your decision.

The point is that this controversy happened on twitter, so if you're not on it, you missed it. This is why you're missing the point. It's not about articles. It's about event promotion. Far more people read tweets than premium articles. Flo could have easily boosted PPV sales with just a tweet or two.

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you don't have to follow the sport 'good enough for me'. you have to follow it good enough to make responsible and informed posts on here. obviously there is bickering on twitter (and every social platform (just like this)), but it is also a critical source of information and to get the pulse. you obviously don't have that on this topic. i mean EVERYONE was talking about Flo's refusal to even mention it.

idk how many articles TOM wrote about it. I myself only wrote one (with one forthcoming). what TOM definitely did, was promote the event on its social channels. Flo refused to acknowledge it at all, even when asked.

that being said, part of my forthcoming article is defending flo in certain instances (not this one). so in addition to you not knowing what's going on in the community, the shot about me  being 'chapped' with anything having to do with flo (which is ad hominem btw) is also ill informed. 

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Just now, uncle bernard said:

You're missing the point. In the couple days leading up to the event, all of wrestling twitter was promoting it. You even had guys like Cliff Fretwell buying PPV for strangers who couldn't afford it (big shout out to Cliff).The only ones that weren't were the flo guys. Makes it even worse that it's a charity event. If you're not on twitter, you completely missed that dynamic.

You can defend the reasoning all you want, but it's a bad look when you constantly talk about growing wrestling when the reality is that it's "grow wrestling (as long as it aligns with our business interests)."

Flo is obviously adding a lot of value to the community, but they also have to deal with criticism when they openly eschew what's in the best interest of the sport for their bottom line.

i do not disagree with the sentiment...

i just disagree with the anti Flo sentiment when everyone else is just as guilty of doing the same thing...

go look at how many times the anti Flo article (the sole article about the event that appeared OTM) has been shared as compared to OTMs otyher content?

it's overwhelming...

you want clicks?

bash flo...

it is all the rage for the very vocal minority... 

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Just now, Husker_Du said:

you don't have to follow the sport 'good enough for me'. you have to follow it good enough to make responsible and informed posts on here. obviously there is bickering on twitter (and every social platform (just like this)), but it is also a critical source of information and to get the pulse. you obviously don't have that on this topic. i mean EVERYONE was talking about Flo's refusal to even mention it.

idk how many articles TOM wrote about it. I myself only wrote one (with one forthcoming). what TOM definitely did, was promote the event on its social channels. Flo refused to acknowledge it at all, even when asked.

that being said, part of my forthcoming article is defending flo in certain instances (not this one). so in addition to you not knowing what's going on in the community, the shot about me  being 'chapped' with anything having to do with flo (which is ad hominem btw) is also ill informed. 

again, learn the actual definition and use of ad hominem...

tell me one thing i can get on twitter that i can not get elsewhere?

whining about flo seems to sum it up on this thread...

and yes you do know how many articles they wrote... exactly zero...

they obviously missed a chance to promote the event to anyone not on twitter, but, did not fail to bash flo on their website and get more clicks and shares than anything else they have posted in quite some time...

 

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this is my last response b/c really, it starts and ends there - 

you don't know what you're talking about because nearly the entire debate is derived from twitter, which you know nothing about. 

(also you don't know what 'ad hominem' means)

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15 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

I'm not trying to get you on twitter. In fact, I just deleted twitter yesterday because it was too distracting for me, so I agree with your decision.

The point is that this controversy happened on twitter, so if you're not on it, you missed it. This is why you're missing the point. It's not about articles. It's about event promotion. Far more people read tweets than premium articles. Flo could have easily boosted PPV sales with just a tweet or two.

do you think i am surprised at all with a very vocal minority complaining about the big bad wolf of Flo?

i don't see that as a controversy at all...

and if it happened only on twitter, then why did OTM choose to post this article bashing Flo (for doing the same thing OTM did not as well) on their website instead of the great news source of twitter?

i mean, the vast majority of the article was bashing flo and only a very small percentage on the wrestling itself... they could have made an 100 part twitter expose' on the big bad wolf... it could have really made a difference...

as far as if flo could have made a difference in actual PPV buys for this event?

i find that fairly laughable... the wrestling community is small (and very whiny)... i find it hard to believe there are significant numbers of people Flo could have reached who did not already know about the event...

those who were going to buy did and those who were not going to buy didn't...

i don't Flo impacted those numbers even a little...

but, it is fun to bash them on twitter and every other platform available, huh?

 

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Here's the deal LJB.

I'm the one who wrote that article. The answer to the question you keep repeating is zero. Should I? Probably...and I'm man enough to say that. Unlike others. And there was no deliberate attempt to ignore the event on my end. 

The entire article was about more than just this one event. That was more of the straw that broke the camel's back and prompted the article. 

I'll also have you know I discussed this event twice on podcasts for Home Mat Advantage leading up to the event. There was plenty of airtime for Flo to do so before and afterwards too. 

Someone asked on Twitter. In 2019, I wrote a preview article for Flo's Who's #1. That would be the most recent tournament ran by Flo we could write about. We had two articles for the event in 2018. 

If you think this entire thing is just about one article that didn't get written you're mistaken. It's much more than that. 

And if you think I wrote that article just to get a few clicks for our site, which admittedly is not at Flo's level (right now), then you don't know me very well. I'm sure you don't, in fact. I can hold my own without trying to use them. 

What you also don't know is that I received a handful of calls/texts from well-respected coaches who felt the same way (maybe have voiced this opinion in the past too) there concerns have continued to go without being addressed. 

Edited by Earl

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13 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

this is my last response b/c really, it starts and ends there - 

you don't know what you're talking about because nearly the entire debate is derived from twitter, which you know nothing about. 

(also you don't know what 'ad hominem' means)

run along...

go back to your twitter...

you won't be missed...

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10 minutes ago, LJB said:

again, learn the actual definition and use of ad hominem...

tell me one thing i can get on twitter that i can not get elsewhere?

whining about flo seems to sum it up on this thread...

and yes you do know how many articles they wrote... exactly zero...

they obviously missed a chance to promote the event to anyone not on twitter, but, did not fail to bash flo on their website and get more clicks and shares than anything else they have posted in quite some time...

 

I think it's fair to bash TOM for not promoting the Rumble on the Rooftop prior to it on their website.    They certainly missed an opportunity, but they are not a streaming service so are not competing with Fite.TV.   Flo did it intentionally because they weren't the ones streaming it.    Regardless, at least the article in question does discuss some of the matches, so they're still 1 up on Flo from that standpoint.

By the way, just listened to FRL.  Zero discussion of the event despite this tweet:

So not only did they ignore the event, they baited people into thinking they weren't going to.  But hey, at least I got to see a trailer of Flo guys interviewing themselves and showing old Penn State clips.

For the record, I don't think they should have necessarily "promoted" the event prior to it - although considering it was a BTS event, it certainly could've helped grow wrestling.   But they've got an hour and a half podcast three days a week with zero actual wrestling going on and not even a single word about this (someone correct me if I'm wrong)?  C'mon now.  I mean at least talk about how the results could impact the future - heck 1/3 of the guys competing in Flo's July event competed on Sunday (both lost, whoops).     Or how many were/are picking Oliver to be the Olympic rep but he looked like crap.    Or the future freestyle prospects of guys like Lugo/Pletcher/McKee, etc.   Looks like they did interview Nazar Kulchytskyy, I assume they at least talked about his retirement, possibly mentioned the match (?), and there's an article on their site from yesterday about how he came to America, but that's the closest it looks like their website came to acknowledging that this event even happened.    

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Just now, 1032004 said:

 

see?

my entire point...

but, i always got you guys here to post a screen shot of the absolute best of the whining, bickering, and false accusations on the twiitersphere...

so, what am i really missing?

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to be fair numbers, i am still not finished listening to the FRL, but, i got duped earlier by that headline thinking they would get to the matches... 

nada...

so, that's on me earlier in this thread...

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Just now, LJB said:

to be fair numbers, i am still not finished listening to the FRL, but, i got duped earlier by that headline thinking they would get to the matches... 

nada...

so, that's on me earlier in this thread...

Here's the deal LJB.

I'm the one who wrote that article. The answer to the question you keep repeating is zero. Should I? Probably...and I'm man enough to say that. Unlike others. And there was no deliberate attempt to ignore the event on my end. 

The entire article was about more than just this one event. That was more of the straw that broke the camel's back and prompted the article. 

I'll also have you know I discussed this event twice on podcasts for Home Mat Advantage leading up to the event. There was plenty of airtime for Flo to do so before and afterwards too. 

Someone asked on Twitter. In 2019, I wrote a preview article for Flo's Who's #1. That would be the most recent tournament ran by Flo we could write about. We had two articles for the event in 2018. 

If you think this entire thing is just about one article that didn't get written you're mistaken. It's much more than that. 

And if you think I wrote that article just to get a few clicks for our site, which admittedly is not at Flo's level (right now), then you don't know me very well. I'm sure you don't, in fact. I can hold my own without trying to use them. 

What you also don't know is that I received a handful of calls/texts from well-respected coaches who felt the same way (maybe have voiced this opinion in the past too) there concerns have continued to go without being addressed. 

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1 minute ago, Earl said:

Here's the deal LJB.

I'm the one who wrote that article. The answer to the question you keep repeating is zero. Should I? Probably...and I'm man enough to say that. Unlike others. And there was no deliberate attempt to ignore the event on my end. 

The entire article was about more than just this one event. That was more of the straw that broke the camel's back and prompted the article. 

I'll also have you know I discussed this event twice on podcasts for Home Mat Advantage leading up to the event. There was plenty of airtime for Flo to do so before and afterwards too. 

Someone asked on Twitter. In 2019, I wrote a preview article for Flo's Who's #1. That would be the most recent tournament ran by Flo we could write about. We had two articles for the event in 2018. 

If you think this entire thing is just about one article that didn't get written you're mistaken. It's much more than that. 

And if you think I wrote that article just to get a few clicks for our site, which admittedly is not at Flo's level (right now), then you don't know me very well. I'm sure you don't, in fact. I can hold my own without trying to use them. 

What you also don't know is that I received a handful of calls/texts from well-respected coaches who felt the same way (maybe have voiced this opinion in the past too) there concerns have continued to go without being addressed. 

the problem i have is the mob mentality of people who just want to bash flo... and your article did nothing to help that... it only promoted that type of mouth breathing behavior...

does it make the article wrong?

not necessarily...

does it make it in bad taste?

one could argue...

is it even in more bad taste to write that article and not mention that OTM did not promote it either on their site and they could do better as well?

100%

 

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15 minutes ago, Earl said:

Someone asked on Twitter. In 2019, I wrote a preview article for Flo's Who's #1. That would be the most recent tournament ran by Flo we could write about. We had two articles for the event in 2018. 

Wait...are you saying you were not allowed to write articles about Flo events?

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10 minutes ago, LJB said:

the problem i have is the mob mentality of people who just want to bash flo... and your article did nothing to help that... it only promoted that type of mouth breathing behavior...

does it make the article wrong?

not necessarily...

does it make it in bad taste?

one could argue...

is it even in more bad taste to write that article and not mention that OTM did not promote it either on their site and they could do better as well?

100%

 

LJB - If you’re not on Twitter, you’re missing most of the impetus for the ire and argument. Since you’re not on it, you’re not actually versed enough in the discussion to speak on it with anything other than the whole mob mentality and you’re only point of reference is the website, when there’s social, podcasts and staff all on social media ALL the time. Just because there’s no article doesn’t mean there’s no promotion.

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5 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Wait...are you saying you were not allowed to write articles about Flo events?

Nooo... To my knowledge FloNationls was the last event they ran by themselves 

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