Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
CoachJSS

Boise st drops baseball...

Recommended Posts

14 hours ago, Idaho said:

University of Oregon lost 1.3 million last year - perhaps the better question is which program loses the least amount? 

Hard to find info on baseball but this article from 2016 shows that 4 of the 12 SEC baseball teams made money and one stayed even. The overall budgets of SEC athletics shows that every school made a profit for the year with Kentucky making the least profit at nearly 5 million. In short, the SEC could add wrestling for men and women if they wanted to. 

https://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/sports/lsu/article_5edd22c0-465c-11e7-8b99-c709d5eb08c1.html

How much NCAA baseball teams spent 2013-17

https://www.diycollegerankings.com/how-much-do-d1-colleges-spend-on-baseball-programs/2505/

Most cost effective NCAA baseball programs 2018

https://www.valuepenguin.com/2018/06/most-cost-effective-college-baseball-programs

Looking at details of the first article I'd still say we have no evidence that any baseball programs are profitable.  The table shows that LSU and TAM both include contributions/donations.  This is a table of "cash coming in" but the author attributes it to revenue in the article but does also mention that TAM was an anomaly as it included donations for a stadium renovation.  Moreover the "cash going out" table does not include all relevant expenses.  What it does show is that LSU is perhaps the one and only ( program that actually cash flows its baseball operation within baseball, no outside athletic or university help.  But that does not mean the program is "profitable."

Regarding BSU dropping baseball, I certainly would not blame them, this is going to be an extraordinary year.  There may not even be any football or basketball programs that are profitably this year or able to cash flow operations with current year revenue.  Saves a lot of money to drop the first year after attempting to restart than later after more infrastructure investment.  We are going to see more of this at the smaller universities, the large programs just keep getting bigger with conference TV etc. but more cost added with feeding all athletes, paying athletes etc. the smaller universities are going to be faced with which programs make sense and can keep afloat.  If they'd kept wrestling it would've been dropped this year.  Not good news but its the situation we face this year.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, ionel said:

Looking at details of the first article I'd still say we have no evidence that any baseball programs are profitable. 

How is profit measured in these non-profit entities? There are clearly positive intangible effects of having a successful team. Are those effects measured? If not, would a team in the red, but returns a high amount of intangible value be more or less valuable than a team that is in the black, but returns very little intangible value? I am genuinely curious because frankly, the discussion about profitability doesn't make sense to me.

Edited by russelscout

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, russelscout said:

How is profit measured in these non-profit entities? There are clearly positive intangible effects of having a successful team. Are those effects measured? If not, would a team in the red, but returns a high amount of intangible value be more or less valuable than a team that is in the black, but returns very little intangible value? I am genuinely curious because frankly, the discussion about profitability doesn't make sense to me.

Anyone?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, russelscout said:

How is profit measured in these non-profit entities? There are clearly positive intangible effects of having a successful team. Are those effects measured? If not, would a team in the red, but returns a high amount of intangible value be more or less valuable than a team that is in the black, but returns very little intangible value? I am genuinely curious because frankly, the discussion about profitability doesn't make sense to me.

Hey snowflake get your SOFT qualitative valuations out of here, sports should be measured solely on PROFITABILITY just like the bottom line of a BUSINESS, that’s how free-market capitalism works! I do not support SOCIALIST organizations! Now please provide institutional funding for my unprofitable sport of choice ASAP!!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BOTTOM LINE is .....................Boise State's idiotic management dropped the very successful (historically) wrestling team to add a baseball team which played a grand total of 14 games at a  cost that absolutely will be far, far, far, more than the Boise State wrestling team was losing annually.   All because the now former Boise State school President, Bob Kustra, wanted to bring Baseball back at Boise State.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Bronco said:

BOTTOM LINE is .....................Boise State's idiotic management dropped the very successful (historically) wrestling team to add a baseball team which played a grand total of 14 games at a  cost that absolutely will be far, far, far, more than the Boise State wrestling team was losing annually.   All because the now former Boise State school President, Bob Kustra, wanted to bring Baseball back at Boise State.

Schools cutting sports isnt new. Maybe the entire system that we are trying to cling on to is inefficient. Unfortunately, the market is speaking and wrestling is not the winner. Id really hate to support anything that doesnt fully support itself. That would be socialism, wouldnt it? Cant have that.

Edited by russelscout

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Schools cutting sports isnt new. Maybe the entire system that we are trying to cling on to is inefficient. Unfortunately, the market is speaking and wrestling is not the winner. Id really hate to support anything that doesnt fully support itself. That would be socialism, wouldnt it? Cant have that.

D1 minimums are 14 and 16 (FBS). The whole desire to be D1 and not be up to par in D1 is a big issue. Even non-football schools have issues competing and being financially viable at that level.

Of the over 220 sports dropped so far, none are at Power 5 institutions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, JasonBryant said:


D1 minimums are 14 and 16 (FBS). The whole desire to be D1 and not be up to par in D1 is a big issue. Even non-football schools have issues competing and being financially viable at that level.

Of the over 220 sports dropped so far, none are at Power 5 institutions.

Thank you for the thoughts JB. I should have put a  /s.

However, reading your comment, how do you see these non power 5 schools playing out through this? Dropping a division? realignment and reclassification (like D1- AA across the board) and less restrictions?

Edited by russelscout

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/2/2020 at 2:48 PM, russelscout said:

All for football, and none for all. Dont take this as a slight at wrestling. This is a slight at anyone besides football

A dozen football programs earn tremendous amounts of money.  100 football programs earn decent amounts but spend absurd amounts trying to keep up with the dozen.  At those dozen schools so much money is earned it pays for all non-revenue sports at those schools.  And revenue sharing for the conference mates of those dozen pays for non-revenue sports at lots of other schools.  

Football may get all, but without it, their would be nothing for half the D1 college athletes that play sports other than football and basketball.  The entire system would crash without the money earned off of football.  If wrestling wants more they simply have to figure out how to earn billions in TV money.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, boconnell said:

A dozen football programs earn tremendous amounts of money.  100 football programs earn decent amounts but spend absurd amounts trying to keep up with the dozen.  At those dozen schools so much money is earned it pays for all non-revenue sports at those schools.  And revenue sharing for the conference mates of those dozen pays for non-revenue sports at lots of other schools.  

Football may get all, but without it, their would be nothing for half the D1 college athletes that play sports other than football and basketball.  The entire system would crash without the money earned off of football.  If wrestling wants more they simply have to figure out how to earn billions in TV money.

It depends what you think the educational system should be for. Im not saying youre wrong; youre not. Im not saying I have answers, because I dont. It just seems like there are some contradictions in college athletics. Is this what the education system should be? To fund football to the gills so we can have sports no one cares about? Im conflicted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, boconnell said:

A dozen football programs earn tremendous amounts of money.  100 football programs earn decent amounts but spend absurd amounts trying to keep up with the dozen.  At those dozen schools so much money is earned it pays for all non-revenue sports at those schools.  And revenue sharing for the conference mates of those dozen pays for non-revenue sports at lots of other schools.  

Football may get all, but without it, their would be nothing for half the D1 college athletes that play sports other than football and basketball.  The entire system would crash without the money earned off of football.  If wrestling wants more they simply have to figure out how to earn billions in TV money.

It is likely the NCAA bureaucracy itself couldn't survive without football money.  That theory may get tested.  If the entire system crashes, it will get rebooted to a leaner system.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, russelscout said:

Schools cutting sports isnt new. Maybe the entire system that we are trying to cling on to is inefficient. Unfortunately, the market is speaking and wrestling is not the winner. Id really hate to support anything that doesnt fully support itself. That would be socialism, wouldnt it? Cant have that.

If you’re referring to the sports being cut this spring/fall, wrestling is probably doing better than expected so far.  

According to Jason Bryant’s list, ODU was the only D1 team dropped, and not counting entire schools closing, only 2 other NJCAA teams were dropped.

Men’s tennis on the other hand is getting crushed, already losing 8 D1 teams.

But as you said, how do you define “support itself”?  If it’s safe to assume the majority of the kids on these teams would not be there without these teams, then I think you should be able to count tuition towards revenue.  Maybe you increase the academic admission standards for non-revenue sport athletes and/or decrease the number of purely athletic scholarships, but even a $25k average (probably low) for only 20 guys is $500k.  I bet that would be able to support most teams not counting any other sources of revenue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, russelscout said:

It depends what you think the educational system should be for. Im not saying youre wrong; youre not. Im not saying I have answers, because I dont. It just seems like there are some contradictions in college athletics. Is this what the education system should be? To fund football to the gills so we can have sports no one cares about? Im conflicted.

Excellent question at the core of the issues....should sports be a part of the educational system...or it's own entity? In some ways it is it's own entity anyway. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Idaho said:

Excellent question at the core of the issues....should sports be a part of the educational system...or it's own entity? In some ways it is it's own entity anyway. 

I agree that it's exactly the question that we should be asking. In a nutshell, the NCAA's stated mission (aside from all the promoting sportsmanship and fair play stuff) is to integrate college sports and academics in order to enrich the total educational experience, and opportunities for that experience, for student athletes. The NJCAA, NAIA, USCAA, etc. all have very similar missions, as do the conferences. So if that's the driving force behind organized college sports, the questions are: What are they doing to fulfill that purpose? Is it working? and What needs to change?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...