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53 minutes ago, gimpeltf said:

Although this isn't the same move.

This from a lower position around 1:25

 

And here also RBY

 

Um.... none of that is the flying squirrel. I think the fact that both you and uncle needed to expand the definition to moves that are not the flying squirrel pretty much makes my point for me.

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3 minutes ago, russelscout said:

Um.... none of that is the flying squirrel. I think the fact that both you and uncle needed to expand the definition to moves that are not the flying squirrel pretty much makes my point for me.

Actually I said that the first one was different although named as such. The others are flying squirrels just lower altitude than Coleman did. 

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Just now, gimpeltf said:

Actually I said that the first one was different although named as such. 

Tim Johnson called it a flying squirrel. I dont know why, but I think most here understand that it was a misnomer on his part and backflipping out of a single has been around for quite some time.

2 minutes ago, gimpeltf said:

The others are flying squirrels just lower altitude than Coleman did. 

So, like just a regular squirrel? I think the altitude is the point.

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3 minutes ago, russelscout said:

Tim Johnson called it a flying squirrel. I dont know why, but I think most here understand that it was a misnomer on his part and backflipping out of a single has been around for quite some time.

Closer to a kolat.

 

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23 hours ago, quaker118 said:

Desanto Tucker at EIWA’s every bit as bad as the Micic match. 

Funny thing is -- I was sitting right there with that mat in front of me, and I missed it; doing something else right then.  Right after that Desanto did something gracious and I saw that, so I thought he was being a good guy until someone filled me in.  I heard that he was invited to leave Drexel's program after the season; that wasn't his only questionable bout.

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4 minutes ago, russelscout said:

Thats what I was thinking. Also, I feel like we have seen that from europeans, albeit with slightly different angle to avoid exposure, for quite some time.

I remember someone I think on the international stage do kind of what you're saying. Not quite as vertical, a little more sidewinder like. I don't think saitiev but it would be like him.

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2 minutes ago, gimpeltf said:

I remember someone I think on the international stage do kind of what you're saying. Not quite as vertical, a little more sidewinder like. I don't think saitiev but it would be like him.

Ive seen several. Go back and watch some of flos old russian nattys highlights and you'll see a lot of examples.

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2 hours ago, russelscout said:

Ok, fine. I have seen a lot of stuff work in high school match that I havent in college. Let me know when a college kid has a lot of success with that because I havent seen it yet.

Nobody was claiming that the flying squirrel is a high percentage folkstyle move. You claimed that nobody would be trying it in folkstyle. That is demonstrably untrue. Don't shift the goal posts.

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2 hours ago, uncle bernard said:

Nobody was claiming that the flying squirrel is a high percentage folkstyle move. You claimed that nobody would be trying it in folkstyle. That is demonstrably untrue. Don't shift the goal posts.

Isnt posting or bringing up moves that are not the flying squirrel as examples to prove your point moving the goal posts? Im on a college forum, and no one was able to show me a college kid hitting a flying squirrel at this level, but you think its still demonstrably untrue? Why? Because you said so?

Edited by russelscout

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On 7/3/2020 at 1:18 PM, Jim L said:

Terry lost to Kelber from Nebraska and wouldn't shake his hand after the match costing Iowa a team point and the team points record

I thought that was a short list "worst loser" but did not have the same reaction to the Kendall Cross OTT loss mentioned in other responses.

Kelber was bad.  Brands wrestled a bad match, got smoked by a guy he probably should have beat (and had before), then pouted and wouldn't shake hands while storming off.

Cross seemed different to me.  You had two amazing wrestlers going at it for the very highest of stakes (in reality an Olympic gold vs nothing) in a thrilling battle beginning to end.  Terry clawed his way back in the match after the big early throw but ran out of time and then,  just emotionally spent, literally crawled off.

I thought it was sad and poignant, but not a "worst loser" or even really a "bad loser" moment. 

Terry actually tapped Cross on the last couple of breaks in what looked like respect.  And after time ran out, Cross, out of pure respect to Brands's heart and sympathy for his devastation, tried to touch Terry's face, which Terry brushed away lightly but didn't freak out on him.  

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1 hour ago, russelscout said:

Isnt posting or bringing up moves that are not the flying squirrel as examples to prove your point moving the goal posts? Im on a college forum, and no one was able to show me a college kid hitting a flying squirrel at this level, but you think its still demonstrably untrue? Why? Because you said so?

You're still shifting the goal posts by trying to limit the hypothetical to the specific version of the Ellis Coleman flying squirrel. The hypothetical still stands with any of these examples. Under your strict interpretation of a slam, they could just spike their opponents or throw them away like Metcalf without control of their return to the mat because they weren't the ones who lifted them there in the first place.

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6 hours ago, uncle bernard said:

You're still shifting the goal posts by trying to limit the hypothetical to the specific version of the Ellis Coleman flying squirrel. The hypothetical still stands with any of these examples. Under your strict interpretation of a slam, they could just spike their opponents or throw them away like Metcalf without control of their return to the mat because they weren't the ones who lifted them there in the first place.

Yes, I was limiting the definition of the move to the actual move. How dare I?

Strict interpretation? My interpretation is based on the actual rule. It says lift in the first sentence. Its pretty clear. 

You just change any definition to mean whatever you want, yet you think I am moving the goal post. How do you not see the hypocrisy in that?

Edited by russelscout

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6 hours ago, uncle bernard said:

Under your strict interpretation of a slam, they could just spike their opponents or throw them away like Metcalf without control of their return to the mat because they weren't the ones who lifted them there in the first place.

....but he never had control. If someone leaves their feet and end up in a precarious situation, its not the other guys responsibility to return him safely. Thats just silly.

Edited by russelscout

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1 hour ago, russelscout said:

....but he never had control. If someone leaves their feet and end up in a precarious situation, its not the other guys responsibility to return him safely. Thats just silly.

Who cares. It might not have technically been a slam but there’s plenty of other penalties it could have been called - unnecessary roughness, unsportsmanlike, etc

Edited by 1032004

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Im not so hard on Metcalf.  I probably would have done the same.  If someone backflips on me to celebrate, Im gonna feel pretty disrespected as a competitor.  This is coming from someone who likes DC.  When he was at the training center, we got along great.

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Lots of other bad incidents that I had forgotten about. The Cornell kid vs Lehigh and DeSanto vs Micic are the two worst that stand out on the list to me.

Another addition, though it didn't happen during the match, was McDonough taking second at big 10s and his trophy was almost immediately found in a trash can at the venue and posted online. Not the worst reaction ever, but he probably could have waited until he got home to pitch it.

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6 hours ago, russelscout said:

....but he never had control. If someone leaves their feet and end up in a precarious situation, its not the other guys responsibility to return him safely. Thats just silly.

If a wrestler does something to endanger an opponent who has left his feet, consequences can absolutely follow — including unnecessary roughness, unsportsmanlike conduct, flagrant misconduct, civil assault/battery, and criminal assault/battery.

Edited by Katie

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One BIG thing about the Metcalf situation that Appears to have been overlooked is he DID back off a ton right before contact. With his initial momentum, he EASILY could have flown him off the platform like Thunderlips did to Rocky!  

With that said, there is no way to justify what he did. But, I think many simply understand it since the celebration started before the match was over. 

I haven’t defended it and won’t here. However, I really don’t find it all that egregious because of what Caldwell did to precipitate it and how Metcalf obviously pulled up at the end. 

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12 minutes ago, buck said:

And now Metcalf is an assistant wrestling coach telling guys to "get on your offense" and "score points".

Not sure how that is relevant to this discussion. The way the guy wrestled,  those words fit him as a coach about as well as they could anyone that wrestled DI. 

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