Jump to content

Recommended Posts

I'll preface this by saying that I like Flo and have been a premium subscriber for years. They put out a lot of great content. I wanted to get this in before LJB jumps in and blows up the thread by calling anyone mildly critical of Flo a "hater."

Currently listening to FRL and I felt this deserved it's own thread because of how amazing it is. So, CP spends the first 10 minutes of the show responding to Earl's article on TOM. For his response, he points out that no media outlet has invested more heavily into wrestling, paying coaches and athletes specifically. This is correct, and is a feather in their cap. He then pointed out some examples of how they cover events they don't livestream. Some of these examples are legit (Nomad going to Pan Ams for example). Most of them are a bit disingenuous. CP uses examples of campus visits and Bader show appearances to support they cover content they don't stream. This is obviously disingenous because the charge is that they don't acknowledge actual specific events they don't stream, not "schools we don't have streaming rights with." 

Overall, CP does a good job highlighting all of the good Flo does for the sport. I'm not going to critique their contribution. It's good.

But, then something absolutely glorious happened. Ben Askren, in his typical fashion of not being able to filter a single thought that pops in his head, cuts off CP and completely blows CP's whole premise up by confirming that they purposely did not promote the BTS event because it was streamed by a competitor: "I'm sorry some people don't understand the business world. If they understood more business, they would understand why Flo did not cover Rumble on the Rooftop...We shouldn't! What? Are we going to make our competition stronger? Are you guys idiots?" (11:30 in the episode) The dejection in CP's voice is audible as he realizes Ben, in the span of a bout 30 seconds, completely undercut the argument he spent 10 minutes making.

This is of course the crux of the debate. Nobody is denying that Flo's contribution is overwhelmingly positive. The frustration is that their content team LOVES to present themselves as altruistic growers of the sport (as evidenced by CP's introduction). The reality is pretty obvious. They love to grow the sport as long as growing the sport coincides with their interests as a business. That's fine. That's capitalism. It's the gap between their self-branding and their actual practice that upsets people. CP should have just said the obvious from the beginning: "Listen, we do a ton for the sport, but we are only able to do that because we are a functioning business. And we can only remain a functioning business if we protect our interests. We believe that not covering certain events, though it obviously isn't helpful for growing the sport, is a necessary price that we pay so we can do all of the other great stuff we do. It's not perfect, it's the way things are yada yada yada." He completely misunderstands why people are annoyed. Just be honest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hear what you're saying, but I would say....why do they have to?  It is on them to run their business.  It is not on them to explain to and educate the public on how they are running a business.  Nor do I believe doing so would have any impact whatsoever on what people will or won't write about them.  I think if we know anything about today's society, it is that a large group of people will find anything to bitch about.  We have no entitlement whatsoever about how they run their business.  We are certainly entitled to our opinion about it, but they don't need to explain anything to anybody.  You want to change their policies and modes of operation.....don't subscribe.  But constant verbiage on a message board?  Positive or negative, they will take it all day long.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i'm starting to listen to FRL now...

my guess is it will be just like bernie described because that is pretty much whop each of those guys are spot on...

pyles a company man and askren no BS...

my guess is i will not think any more or less of either of them or FLo after listening...

but, i will probably be entertained and get some useful info out of the episode as per usual...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Lurker said:

I hear what you're saying, but I would say....why do they have to?  It is on them to run their business.  It is not on them to explain to and educate the public on how they are running a business.  Nor do I believe doing so would have any impact whatsoever on what people will or won't write about them.  I think if we know anything about today's society, it is that a large group of people will find anything to bitch about.  We have no entitlement whatsoever about how they run their business.  We are certainly entitled to our opinion about it, but they don't need to explain anything to anybody.  You want to change their policies and modes of operation.....don't subscribe.  But constant verbiage on a message board?  Positive or negative, they will take it all day long.  

ugh...

lurker barging into this thread with his "reason" and "logic"...

get a grip dude...

FLO IS THE DEVIL!!!!!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

to be fair, i am 1:15 in and pyles is making want to vomit... 

i am not sure i can take 10 minutes of this justification...

but, this is whiner's world we live in... my guess is there are several "posters" here who will actually pat themselves on the back thinking they did something and got recognized and really made a difference...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Lurker said:

I hear what you're saying, but I would say....why do they have to?  It is on them to run their business.  It is not on them to explain to and educate the public on how they are running a business.  Nor do I believe doing so would have any impact whatsoever on what people will or won't write about them.  I think if we know anything about today's society, it is that a large group of people will find anything to bitch about.  We have no entitlement whatsoever about how they run their business.  We are certainly entitled to our opinion about it, but they don't need to explain anything to anybody.  You want to change their policies and modes of operation.....don't subscribe.  But constant verbiage on a message board?  Positive or negative, they will take it all day long.  

Don't want to speak for him but I think that's pretty much OP's point.    If Flo would just admit that they are much more concerned with running their business than growing wrestling, less people would probably complain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Don't want to speak for him but I think that's pretty much OP's point.    If Flo would just admit that they are much more concerned with running their business than growing wrestling, less people would probably complain.

wrong...

100% wrong...

Flo gets bashed here on a daily basis for everything they do and do not do...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

askren is the fukn man...

he nailed it... pyles just stop... you have nothing to apologize for... 

bernie left that out in his original rant...

Flo doesn't have anything to apologize for... at all...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, LJB said:

bernie left that out in his original rant...

Flo doesn't have anything to apologize for... at all...

No he didn't.  I think he's agreeing with you:

The reality is pretty obvious. They love to grow the sport as long as growing the sport coincides with their interests as a business. That's fine. That's capitalism.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

pyles finally stopped being the comapnay man and laid it down like he should have at the beginning......

Grow the sport has been weaponized and it's this pouty tool of i didn't get what i want so i'll say these words "grow the sport" so i can somehow get what i want...

paraphrased, but, 100% right... good on you pyles...

whiners are going to whine no matter what...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

No he didn't.  I think he's agreeing with you:

whether or not he agrees or disagrees is immaterial... he left out the key point in askren's entrance... could have been for many any number of different reasons...

stop it pyles... this is ridiculous... you don't have to apologize... you do a great job...

100% true...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, LJB said:

ugh...

lurker barging into this thread with his "reason" and "logic"...

get a grip dude...

FLO IS THE DEVIL!!!!!!!!

Listen backhat....

Is Flo looking for a soul to steal....

Are they in a bind because they are way behind and they're looking to make deal.....

You keep trying your internet parlor tricks on me,  I don't know why you're trying again....

I done told you once you son of a bitch I'm the best there's every been.....

 

(note the edit)

Edited by Lurker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Lurker said:

Listen backhat....

Is Flo looking for a soul to steal....

Are they in a bind because they are way behind and they're looking to make deal.....

You keep trying your internet parlor tricks on me,  I don't know why you're trying again....

I done told you was you son of a bitch I'm the best there's every been.....

RIP

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Askren is not a Flo employee, he's an independent contractor (according to him) and he's very much a guy who says his own personal beliefs on everything.

Regardless, Flo has never anywhere that I've seen painted themselves as a purely altruistic venture, which of course they aren't, they're not a charity.

And CP pointed out in the interview not just the visits, but the coverage. They had individual conference rankings for every conference. Didn't they do lower division rankings, also? You think those are big money makers? As i posted on the other thread, they also did lengthy conference tournament previews for every conference, which again is not some huge ratings driver for them.

They are a business that also happens to be doing great things for wrestling.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

now pyles is really putting it down about the financial aspects of Flo and how they have a repsonsibility to those who work for them to keep them employed...

think about that whiners...

real live people who do not necessarily care about wrestling but are feeding their families because of wrestling...

but, again...

whiners will always whine no matter what...

waaaaaay easier than actually contributing... just sit back from the safety of your internet anonymity and whine and mewl while doing absolutely nothing of value...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, LJB said:

whether or not he agrees or disagrees is immaterial... he left out the key point in askren's entrance... could have been for many any number of different reasons...

stop it pyles... this is ridiculous... you don't have to apologize... you do a great job...

100% true...

But again...

He didn't leave it out...

He said it was fine...

It's capitalism...

The issue is that CP doesn't admit it... (but Askren does.  going off of OP, I have not listened yet)

Edited by 1032004

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, 1032004 said:

But again...

He didn't leave it out...

He said it was fine...

It's capitalism..

The issue is that CP doesn't admit it... (but Askren does.  going off of OP, I have not listened yet)

what doesn't he admit?

go listen and come back...

i started the podcast rolling my eyes at pyles and by the end of it he got me because he finally stood up like a man and called it like it really is...

whiners whine because they don't get exactly what they want exactly when they want it...

that is the long and short of it...

it is a character flaw...

and it should pointed out, laughed at, and then paid attention to for no longer than that, because, a whiner will never quit being a whiner... ever...

pyles... i salute you!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, LJB said:

whether or not he agrees or disagrees is immaterial... he left out the key point in askren's entrance... could have been for many any number of different reasons...

stop it pyles... this is ridiculous... you don't have to apologize... you do a great job...

100% true...

I didn't include the apology part because I was providing a general summary, and I think the rest of my post makes pretty clear that I agreed with Askren's take (and mostly yours). My problem (which is probably an overstatement as I don't care all that much; it's a slow period right now) has always been with the self-righteous way some of them present themselves. CP's opening statement, which you correctly pointed out was cringey, is exactly the type of BS that annoys me and others. Just be honest about what you're doing as a business. 

I wrote my post right after Askren's derailing, but that ironically led to a much more honest and genuine discussion of what Flo does afterwards where CP acknowledged that they were running a business, not a charity, and that requires them to do things that don't always 100% benefit "the sport." We don't live in a utopia where resources are distributed equally. We live in the era of the market and that market logic dictates what we all do. Flo has to protect its own business interests to remain a viable company. That's fine and it's the response they should lead with. Not covering events would still annoy me, but I don't have a stake in the company and I understand that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, LJB said:

what doesn't he admit?

go listen and come back...

i started the podcast rolling my eyes at pyles and by the end of it he got me because he finally stood up like a man and called it like it really is...

whiners whine because they don't get exactly what they want exactly when they want it...

that is the long and short of it...

it is a character flaw...

and it should pointed out, laughed at, and then paid attention to for no longer than that, because, a whiner will never quit being a whiner... ever...

pyles... i salute you!!!!

Exactly!!! It's the 10 minutes of BS I was critiquing. His final admission of the obvious reality was 100x more honest and genuine than anything he said in the first 10 minutes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, uncle bernard said:

I didn't include the apology part because I was providing a general summary, and I think the rest of my post makes pretty clear that I agreed with Askren's take (and mostly yours). My problem (which is probably an overstatement as I don't care all that much; it's a slow period right now) has always been with the self-righteous way some of them present themselves. CP's opening statement, which you correctly pointed out was cringey, is exactly the type of BS that annoys me and others. Just be honest about what you're doing as a business. 

I wrote my post right after Askren's derailing, but that ironically led to a much more honest and genuine discussion of what Flo does afterwards where CP acknowledged that they were running a business, not a charity, and that requires them to do things that don't always 100% benefit "the sport." We don't live in a utopia where resources are distributed equally. We live in the era of the market and that market logic dictates what we all do. Flo has to protect its own business interests to remain a viable company. That's fine and it's the response they should lead with. Not covering events would still annoy me, but I don't have a stake in the company and I understand that.

i pretty much agree with everything here...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, uncle bernard said:

Exactly!!! It's the 10 minutes of BS I was critiquing. His final admission of the obvious reality was 100x more honest and genuine than anything he said in the first 10 minutes.

what's favorite dinosaur???

did we just become best friends?????

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, LJB said:

what's favorite dinosaur???

did we just become best friends?????

I just think our disagreement (or lack thereof) was finally clarified. I don't have any illusions about a private business always having to act in the best interest of the public. I don't live in a fantasy where that exists. I just don't like the BS that flo uses to cover up that reality. They should be honest and let their contribution to the sport stand on its own merits. Anyone with a brain can see how much better the fan landscape is now compared to 15 years ago. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...