SIAP - Stanford Dropping 11 Sports incl. Wrestling

[Idaho 805]

 

1 hour ago, ShakaAloha said:

There's going to be a lot of suitors for Woods, Abas, and Griffith.  Probably for Traxler and DiSario too.

Nate Engel on line 1

 

[Katie 735]

If I were a Stanford wrestler in this economy, I would strongly consider options to stay at Stanford (unless I could land a spot at a school like Princeton).

Wrestling is fun and all, but a good education can open doors when you're trying to pay bills in a few years. Missing out on career opportunities early in life can put you in a hole you'll never quite recover from.

Edited July 10, 2020 by Katie

[Idaho 805]

This really sucks for the West and for the Pac 12. 

[GoNotQuietly 895]

Prediction: every sport which doesn’t have a contingency plan for disassociation from education will be dead in a decade


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Katie 735]

Is Stanford going to online instruction only? If so, they may be facing the prospect of losing international students and all the money they bring in. Huge uncertainty right now at so many schools. 

Edited July 8, 2020 by Katie

[Cary by the Lake 50]

**** Sad just plain sad.  Obviously The Admin knew before hand.  Really shabby to treat wrestlers, coaches and especially Kerry this way.  In the long run it is a business and if it cannot support itself, things will change.  Hoping all can make plans.

 

[Pinnum 796]

3 minutes ago, Cary by the Lake said:

**** Sad just plain sad.  Obviously The Admin knew before hand.  Really shabby to treat wrestlers, coaches and especially Kerry this way.  In the long run it is a business and if it cannot support itself, things will change.  Hoping all can make plans.

The school's admin isn't involved with the RTC, their finances, or their hiring decisions, are they?  

It would seem that anyone involved with brining Kerry in was probably in the dark about all of this.

[ShakaAloha 120]

32 minutes ago, Idaho said:

 

Nate Engel on line 1

 

No disrespect but Oregon State is a significant step down academically from Stanford.  IMO, I can't see Woods, Griffith, or Abas landing there.  

[Katie 735]

4 minutes ago, Cary by the Lake said:

**** Sad just plain sad.  Obviously The Admin knew before hand.  Really shabby to treat wrestlers, coaches and especially Kerry this way.  In the long run it is a business and if it cannot support itself, things will change.  Hoping all can make plans.

 

I believe Stanford, like many universities, is a non-profit organization that receives federal subsidies.

[ionel 1,353]

2 hours ago, Antitroll2828 said:

They have a 27.7 billion dollar endowment, but you know the dean might need to put an addition on his winter home or the football team might need Gucci carpet in the locker room so bring out the axe for the “lesser” sports. 

I'm guessing that is an endowment for academics.  Do you think they should raid an academic endowment to support athletics, what if a univ raided an endowment specifically set up to fund an athletic scholarship and used it for academic research.   But regardless its tough times and admin has to make tough decisions and think long term, I don't like it but there it is ...

[bnwtwg 484]

9 minutes ago, ShakaAloha said:

No disrespect but Oregon State is a significant step down academically from Stanford.  IMO, I can't see Woods, Griffith, or Abas landing there.  

Northwestern is the only school that I can think of that can check these three boxes:

1) similar academic prowess (college rankings and real world stature i.e. “Oh he’s a Stanford grad, he must be smart!”

2) has wrestling

3) accepts transfers

[jeffrideal 116]

I think it is interesting, in the bullet points, wrestling in not mentioned.  But then they go on to say the wrestling is not fully funded with scholarships or coaching positions.  Seems like wrestling is being singled out without a legitimate reason.  They are successful without full complement of scholarships as are many wrestling programs. 

https://news.stanford.edu/2020/07/08/athletics/

For example, simply looking at sponsorship of the sports at a national level as one consideration:

• Of the 11 sports being discontinued, six (lightweight rowing, men’s rowing, co-ed and women’s sailing, squash, synchronized swimming) are not NCAA-sponsored championship sports.

• All 11 sports being discontinued are sponsored by less than 22% of the more than 350 Division I institutions, and nine (men’s and women’s fencing, lightweight rowing, men’s rowing, co-ed and women’s sailing, squash, synchronized swimming, men’s volleyball) are sponsored by less than 9%.

• There are only two other Division I field hockey and fencing programs on the West Coast, and there are no other lightweight rowing, sailing, squash or synchronized swimming programs on the West Coast.

Many of these sports currently compete without a full complement of scholarships (e.g. wrestling), coaches and resources. After careful analysis, we concluded there was no realistic path to ensuring that they have all of the resources needed to compete at the highest level without hindering our ability to support our other 25 varsity sports.

Edited July 8, 2020 by jeffrideal

[madcat11 404]

24 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

Northwestern is the only school that I can think of that can check these three boxes:

1) similar academic prowess (college rankings and real world stature i.e. “Oh he’s a Stanford grad, he must be smart!”

2) has wrestling

3) accepts transfers

Do the ivies not take transfers?  

[madcat11 404]

22 minutes ago, jeffrideal said:

I think it is interesting, in the bullet points, wrestling in not mentioned.  But then they go on to say the wrestling is not fully funded with scholarships or coaching positions.  Seems like wrestling is being singled out without a legitimate reason.  They are successful without full complement of scholarships as are many wrestling programs. 

https://news.stanford.edu/2020/07/08/athletics/

For example, simply looking at sponsorship of the sports at a national level as one consideration:

• Of the 11 sports being discontinued, six (lightweight rowing, men’s rowing, co-ed and women’s sailing, squash, synchronized swimming) are not NCAA-sponsored championship sports.

• All 11 sports being discontinued are sponsored by less than 22% of the more than 350 Division I institutions, and nine (men’s and women’s fencing, lightweight rowing, men’s rowing, co-ed and women’s sailing, squash, synchronized swimming, men’s volleyball) are sponsored by less than 9%.

• There are only two other Division I field hockey and fencing programs on the West Coast, and there are no other lightweight rowing, sailing, squash or synchronized swimming programs on the West Coast.

Many of these sports currently compete without a full complement of scholarships (e.g. wrestling), coaches and resources. After careful analysis, we concluded there was no realistic path to ensuring that they have all of the resources needed to compete at the highest level without hindering our ability to support our other 25 varsity sports.

Yeah... and despite that Stanford was ready to compete for a trophy this year...

[IronChef 756]

Prediction: every sport which doesn’t have a contingency plan for disassociation from education will be dead in a decade


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

By 2030? Can I bet the other side of your prediction anywhere?

[Pinnum 796]

41 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

Northwestern is the only school that I can think of that can check these three boxes:

1) similar academic prowess (college rankings and real world stature i.e. “Oh he’s a Stanford grad, he must be smart!”

2) has wrestling

3) accepts transfers

Princeton now accepts transfers so all of the Ivy League schools accept transfers.

The non-scholarship aspect may be why you omitted the Ivy school?

[uncle bernard 452]

2 hours ago, NJDan said:

How does Stanford decide it cannot afford wrestling or anything else? Obviously, it has the money. But just as obviously the wrestling team loses money-- but so does the English department.

Okay, but only one of those is a part of the academic core experience. I love wrestling as much as anyone, but if universities have to choose between funding academic or athletic endeavors, they should 100% fund the academics. 

The writing has been on the wall for a few months. Universities have been hit hard. The new potential ICE rule deporting international students whose institutions are online for the year could completely cripple many schools. Extracurriculars that don't make a profit for the school will be on the chopping block, and that's probably how it should be. Unfortunately, wrestling falls under this category.

[Bronco 147]

So the PAC 12 drags it's feet till almost literally the last minute and then FINALLY adds Little Rock to avoid having their NCAA tournament eligibility dropped.   And NOW Stanford - with a 28 BILLION dollar endowment in hand - chooses to drop wrestling (and 10 other sports).   So the PAC 12 is going to need yet another school with the sport of wrestling after 2021.  Wonder how long they will drag their feet this next time.

All of the following Stanford wrestlers (since this appears to be an absolutely final decision by Stanford) should enter the transfer portal TODAY:

125 lbs - Jackson DiSario - 2020-21 True So. - Ranked # 22 at 125 lbs by WrestleStat (From McDonough, GA)

141 lbs - Real Woods - 2020-21 RS So. - Ranked # 7 at 141 lbs by WrestleStat (From Albuquerque, NM)

141 lbs - Fabian Santillan - 2020-21 True So. - Ranked # 28 by WrestleStat (From Aurora, CO)

149 lbs - Jaden Abas - 2021 RS FR - Ranked # 15 by WS (From San Diego, CA)

157 lbs - Tyler Eischens - 2021 RS SO - Ranked # 31 by WS (From Anoka, MN)

165 lbs - Shane Griffith - 2021 RS SO - Ranked # 4 by WS (From Westwood NJ)

Personally if they are going to transfer I'd like to see Woods, Abas and Griffith (at the very least) transfer to Arizona State.  That would mean the following lineup for Arizona State next season

125 - Brandon Courtney (RS JR) - Ranked # 13

133 - Michael McGee (RS JR) - Ranked # 7

141 - Real Woods (RS SO) - Ranked # 7

149 - Jaden Abas (RS FR) - Ranked # 15

157 - Jacori Teemer (RS SO) Ranked # 9

165 - Shane Griffith (RS SO) - Ranked # 4

174 - Anthony Valencia (RS SR) - Ranked # 7

184 - Cade Belshay (RS JR) - Ranked # 37

197 - Kordell Norfleet (RS JR) - Ranked # 11

285 - Cohlton Schultz (RS FR) - Ranked # 48

Edited July 8, 2020 by Bronco

[pamela 1,334]

1 hour ago, Katie said:

Is Stanford going to online instruction only? If so, they may be facing the prospect of losing international students and all the money they bring in. Huge uncertainty right now at so many schools. 

Their current plan is to institute a hybrid model. Something along the lines of incoming freshman and sophomores will be allowed on campus and in student housing for the Fall quarter only for in-person instruction, then they can't return to campus until June 2021; juniors and graduating seniors on-campus in the Winter quarter only, not allowed back until Fall 2021 at the earliest; and seniors on-campus for the Spring quarter, possibly the Winter for limited-offering type classes they need to graduate or stay on track towards graduation. Transfers and grad students have their own plan. Idk, it sounded kind of confusing and convoluted.

One of our interns is a Stanford undergrad and she thinks the administration is bracing themselves for a financial cratering next year. Almost everyone she knows is taking a gap year in 2020-21. No one wants to pay Stanford tuition for a semi-Stanford experience, and no one wants to be forced back on-campus either if it'll be unsafe or lead to another "leave now" situation like in March.

Dropping all those sports is kind of a shock though, and seems so un-Stanford to me. They are so hot on sponsoring non-revenue sports, developing Olympians, having the most NCAA titles, going after the Directors Cup and all that. It's a pretty big part of the school's brand. The cuts totally suck and I agree that Stanford could easily keep all its varsity sports going with the pocket change of a handful of its wealthy alumni. Don't forget though that the school's endowment is illiquid, based on financial assets that are at high risk of losing value with the markets and scarce real estate in and around Palo Alto that the SMC won't want to divest anytime soon.

However, I disagree with another comment up above that athletics should be run separately from the school. For one, it already is run as a separate entity; but also if athletics was considered an essential part of the educational experience instead of a P&L sheet maybe varsity sports would be treated (protected) a little more like academic departments and student life.

[Antitroll2828 597]

36 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

Okay, but only one of those is a part of the academic core experience. I love wrestling as much as anyone, but if universities have to choose between funding academic or athletic endeavors, they should 100% fund the academics. 

The writing has been on the wall for a few months. Universities have been hit hard. The new potential ICE rule deporting international students whose institutions are online for the year could completely cripple many schools. Extracurriculars that don't make a profit for the school will be on the chopping block, and that's probably how it should be. Unfortunately, wrestling falls under this category.

Tuition is over 100k a year and as mentioned they like 28 billion in endowments, they could use literally half of 1 months interest that money makes and fully fund wrestling for the next 3 years, Stanford doesn’t need to cut ANY sport. Universities like this have been raising costs and expenses at an unchecked rate for how long, and now we re supposed to believe they are broke and this move is make the education situation there stronger? 

[AnklePicker 531]

Man I feel so bad for the entire team but especially for Coach Borrelli who had built them into a legit contender and was ready to unleash that squad at NCAAs this year.  Heartache followed by heartbreak. 

[AnklePicker 531]

5 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

Tuition is over 100k a year and as mentioned they like 28 billion in endowments, they could use literally half of 1 months interest that money makes and fully fund wrestling for the next 3 years, Stanford doesn’t need to cut ANY sport. Universities like this have been raising costs and expenses at an unchecked rate for how long, and now we re supposed to believe they are broke and this move is make the education situation there stronger? 

100k per year? 

[Major Kong 24]

1 hour ago, bnwtwg said:

Northwestern is the only school that I can think of that can check these three boxes:

1) similar academic prowess (college rankings and real world stature i.e. “Oh he’s a Stanford grad, he must be smart!”

2) has wrestling

3) accepts transfers

As an NU grad and ex-wrestler, that was my first thought. Although I would not put NU on the same level academically. Do the Ivies not accept transfer athletes? 

[uncle bernard 452]

 

23 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

Tuition is over 100k a year and as mentioned they like 28 billion in endowments, they could use literally half of 1 months interest that money makes and fully fund wrestling for the next 3 years, Stanford doesn’t need to cut ANY sport. Universities like this have been raising costs and expenses at an unchecked rate for how long, and now we re supposed to believe they are broke and this move is make the education situation there stronger? 

Tuition is certainly not over 100k a year anywhere. The highest tuition sticker price you'll see are at the ivies of around 50k. Some graduate programs will be a little higher. And that's the sticker price. Almost nobody actually pays anywhere near that. I think the average family contribution for Harvard is somewhere around 10-15k. I grew up middle to maybe even upper-middle class, and my estimated contribution for Harvard was like around that.  There are no merit scholarships (completely need based) at the ivies, so your cost to attend is determined by your parents income and ability to contribute. The inflated sticker prices are mostly a symbol of prestige and nothing more. 

30 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

Or it’s just the law that’s been exploited 1000s time over for a long time

Incidentally, the students you want to deport are the only ones actually paying sticker price for tuition usually. That's why this is such a huge deal. If they're deported, a huge number will drop their programs and the universities will have a huge shortfall in tuition income. Can you explain the policy justification for deporting exchange students here legally on visas? Outside of a general idea that "foreigner=bad."

[Sheerstress 102]

25 minutes ago, AnklePicker said:

100k per year? 

A lot, but not quite.  Scroll to the bottom:

https://facts.stanford.edu/academics/undergraduate-facts/