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SIAP - Stanford Dropping 11 Sports incl. Wrestling

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26 minutes ago, AnklePicker said:

Man I feel so bad for the entire team but especially for Coach Borrelli who had built them into a legit contender and was ready to unleash that squad at NCAAs this year.  Heartache followed by heartbreak. 

I'm hoping his guys will stay for the final year, so they can go out with a bang. I wouldn't blame anyone for leaving right away though.

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Stanford certainly seems to have done more due diligence than ODU, but reading some of that was certainly frustrating, particularly:

1.  The only time wrestling was mentioned was by saying it didn’t have the maximum amount of scholarships.  And they were still competitive, so what?  (Although i guess the mention of Title IX implies that was also a factor for wrestling).

2.  Saying it would take $200MM to permanently fund these sports, but then basically saying “nah, even if we got that we’d rather spend it on other sports (COUGHfootballandbasketballCOUGH).“ Why even say a number if you supposedly wouldn’t even reinstate them if you got it?

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Stanford has had its issue over the years. In the eighties Dave and Mark Schultz were assistants there.  Chris Horpel was head coach. In the summer of 1986 they were “defunded” and demoted to a club sport. Dave left with their star future NCAA champ and went to Wisconsin. Mark went to BYU (I think). They continued to have people on the team and compete. So I am holding out some hope. 

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8 hours ago, muskyjunky said:

A young man from my area was suppose to wrestle for Stanford on scholarship this coming season. State champ but denied his second bid this year due to COVID . Really sad for him . Gotta be devastating .

Are they honoring his scholarship?  Take the Stanford degree.

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13 hours ago, uncle bernard said:

 

Tuition is certainly not over 100k a year anywhere. The highest tuition sticker price you'll see are at the ivies of around 50k. Some graduate programs will be a little higher. And that's the sticker price. Almost nobody actually pays anywhere near that. I think the average family contribution for Harvard is somewhere around 10-15k. I grew up middle to maybe even upper-middle class, and my estimated contribution for Harvard was like around that.  There are no merit scholarships (completely need based) at the ivies, so your cost to attend is determined by your parents income and ability to contribute. The inflated sticker prices are mostly a symbol of prestige and nothing more. 

Incidentally, the students you want to deport are the only ones actually paying sticker price for tuition usually. That's why this is such a huge deal. If they're deported, a huge number will drop their programs and the universities will have a huge shortfall in tuition income. Can you explain the policy justification for deporting exchange students here legally on visas? Outside of a general idea that "foreigner=bad."

You right, there totally isn't nearly $2 Trillion in student loan debt. Call it sticker price or whatever you want, Covid is exposing the insanely broken systems that have built up in higher education and our athletic departments. Sadly it took something like this for people to wake up to the real issues that have been plaguing colleges and students around the country.  

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16 hours ago, Katie said:

If I were a Stanford wrestler in this economy, I would strongly consider options to stay at Stanford (unless you can land a spot at a school like Princeton).

Wrestling is fun and all, but a good education can open doors when you're trying to pay bills in a few years. Missing out on career opportunities early in life can put you in a hole you'll never quite recover from.

"Why should we have to go to class if we come here to play FOOTBALL, we ain't come to play SCHOOL, classes are POINTLESS."  - Cardale Jones

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12 hours ago, uncle bernard said:

It's actually almost certainly a driving factor. This move will force schools to hold on campus classes in order to keep their international students, who they rely on financially. His chances at reelection depend on him reestablishing some sense of normalcy before november. Having schools functioning as normal is part of that.

If you disagree, what is your theory as to why they would do this?

You've got another thing coming if you believe normalcy is what will be the deciding factor.

The primary deciding factor is the same thing as it was last time.  Despite all the fake news, he is still obviously the lesser of two evils.

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1 hour ago, LHU125 said:

You right, there totally isn't nearly $2 Trillion in student loan debt. Call it sticker price or whatever you want, Covid is exposing the insanely broken systems that have built up in higher education and our athletic departments. Sadly it took something like this for people to wake up to the real issues that have been plaguing colleges and students around the country.  

I was responding to a specific claim about a school like Stanford charging 100k. An average contribution of 15k/year is still obviously way too high. You don't have to convince me that the loan crisis is serious. I work at a university. I see it every day.

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2 hours ago, uncle bernard said:

That's your opinion and you're welcome to it, but his numbers are really bad right now, specifically with seniors, which is shocking for a Republican president. Those numbers are directly caused by the chaos of the virus. He has to address that if he wants a chance to win.

For those who will say "the polls were wrong last time," they really weren't that wrong. They had Hillary winning the popular vote by a couple points. She did. Where they were "wrong," was in a few swing states like Michigan and Wisconsin, but those margins were razor thin and within the margin of error of the polls. Her status as an overwhelming favorite was largely the result of a pundit class incapable of conceiving a trump victory was possible under any circumstance. They've been wrong about just about every major event in modern political history, so that should have been our first clue about his chances lol.

I don't think people realize how crazy Biden's poll lead is right now. He's up 9 points in the RCP average. Hillary was considered a big favorite. She was only up 3-4 pts at this point. Something obviously has to change if he's going to win. The big variable will be how the pandemic affects both turnout and process. It's almost a sure thing that the loser is going to question the legitimacy of the result. It's also highly unlikely that we'll know the result on election day too, which is going to create a lot of chaos.

If you'd like to discuss politix, I welcome a PM conversation.  I can keep it civil and adult, as well.

Otherwise, it'd be much more appropriate to use a wrestling forum for wrestling things.

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3 hours ago, LHU125 said:

You right, there totally isn't nearly $2 Trillion in student loan debt. Call it sticker price or whatever you want, Covid is exposing the insanely broken systems that have built up in higher education and our athletic departments. Sadly it took something like this for people to wake up to the real issues that have been plaguing colleges and students around the country.  

A school like Stanford is absolutely worth the tuition. The same is true for most of the premier state schools (by this I mean the top 1 to 2 state schools in each state and top like 5 in Texas and 10 in California). In fact, college tuition is generally the best investment you can make if you actually put effort into college. The issue with the student loan crisis is that there are many really bad universities that charge the same price as these good universities-and people pay it/attend because they are told they have to have a college degree.

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19 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

 

A school like Stanford is absolutely worth the tuition. The same is true for most of the premier state schools (by this I mean the top 1 to 2 state schools in each state and top like 5 in Texas and 10 in California). In fact, college tuition is generally the best investment you can make if you actually put effort into college. The issue with the student loan crisis is that there are many really bad universities that charge the same price as these good universities-and people pay it/attend because they are told they have to have a college degree.

Sounds subjective for you to decide which colleges are worth the tuition or not. The crisis is here because the average cost of tuition has gone up by nearly 3,000% in the last fifty years. That in addition to letting 18 year olds take out essentially unlimited money in the form of student loans. What other loan lets you take out thousand with no credit or payment history? Then they receive federal aid based on how much money their parents make? It's a completely broken system in a league of its own.

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22 minutes ago, LHU125 said:

Sounds subjective for you to decide which colleges are worth the tuition or not. The crisis is here because the average cost of tuition has gone up by nearly 3,000% in the last fifty years. That in addition to letting 18 year olds take out essentially unlimited money in the form of student loans. What other loan lets you take out thousand with no credit or payment history? Then they receive federal aid based on how much money their parents make? It's a completely broken system in a league of its own.

Except people with college degrees make significantly more money than people without degrees. Our labor force is now and will continue to be about technology/being educated moreso than unskilled labor (driven in part by automation)-meaning college is a necessity for these jobs. And it’s not subjective-by any metric a degree from Stanford is worth the tuition and a degree from *insert for profit institution* is not. If you think college is such a ripoff, encourage your kids/grandkids not to go-odds are it won’t be a prudent financial decision. 

Edited by Billyhoyle

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4 hours ago, Billyhoyle said:

Except people with college degrees make significantly more money than people without degrees. Our labor force is now and will continue to be about technology/being educated moreso than unskilled labor (driven in part by automation)-meaning college is a necessity for these jobs. And it’s not subjective-by any metric a degree from Stanford is worth the tuition and a degree from *insert for profit institution* is not. If you think college is such a ripoff, encourage your kids/grandkids not to go-odds are it won’t be a prudent financial decision. 

This is completely incorrect , and I believe you may be a bit out touch with the real world. Sure if you want to be a doctor, lawyer, physical therapist, college is obviously needed, but when it comes to run of the mill jobs, I guarantee that the carpenters, electricians, sanitation workers make twice the money and have more benefits then most people working in the technology, or any office building that’s not on Wall Street , without the 6 figure debt as well.Going to college doesn’t make you more educated then someone that didn’t, sure you may be more versed in the major you studied but overall it’s not a reflection of intelligence, that may have been the case at one point in time but the last 10 -15 yrs that’s definitely not ...What is your definition of “unskilled labor”.    

Edited by Antitroll2828

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1 hour ago, Antitroll2828 said:

This is completely incorrect , and I believe you may be a tune of out touch with the real world. Sure if you want to be a doctor, lawyer, physical therapist, college is obviously needed, but when it comes to run of the mill jobs, I guarantee that the carpenters, electricians, sanitation workers make twice the money and have more benefits then most people working in the technology, or any office building that’s not on a Wall Street , without the 6 figure debt as well.Going to college doesn’t make you more educated then someone that didn’t, sure you may be more versed in the major you studied but overall it’s not a reflection of intelligence, that may have been the case at one point in time but the last 10 -15 yrs that’s definitely not ..ll What is your definition of “unskilled labor”.    

what???

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34 minutes ago, pamela said:

It might be time to switch up your information diet there, chief. You're literally regurgitating far-right memes.

BACK TO THE SUBJECT, has there been word of any new transfer portal activity coming from Palo Alto? Tough choice for the upperclassmen - move on for an opportunity to compete in the sport you love, or stick it out and get that coveted Stanford piece of paper for free with the possibility of no season in '21? Can't blame kids for taking a wait and see approach though if Stanford may be the first big domino to fall.

At least it appears the Stanford staff is going to fight it, so considering they’ll still have a team this year (if there’s a season), I wonder if many will stay for this year which would give them (and other schools potentially interested in them) time to assess their options.

 

Speaking of coach’s tweets, what was the deal with ODU coach Martin?  Did he even make any statements?  Seems speculation is he got a healthy severance to stay quiet?  He seemed to be fairly active on Twitter in the weeks leading up to the announcement, then went radio silent for over a month.

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Didn’t read the entire thread, but .... it seems to me that most folks on here don’t get or don’t want to understand or comprehend the “big picture”.  

A P5 West Coast Program that is gone.  D1 Wrestling is in trouble.  Period.  

Let’s have a NCAA Tourney with 20 Programs.  Go ahead & laugh but we are headed there.

If this continues, “apathy” will dominate the Wrestling landscape going forward as fewer relevant Universities/Colleges will offer the sport we love.

Worried.....

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42 minutes ago, Show_Me said:

 

Let’s have a NCAA Tourney with 20 Programs.  Go ahead & laugh but we are headed there.

Well the b10 is the only thing that's important, isn't that what they've been telling us the last dozen years, and ddm so 20 at the tourney is double what we need, correct?  ;_;

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5 hours ago, Antitroll2828 said:

They ignored literally everything I said to highlight 1 sentence And no one has argued a single point I made. 

You can't write something as careless as that and not get called out. :)

Intelligence and education are not equivalent, so your qualification is wrong as well.

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9 hours ago, Antitroll2828 said:

This is completely incorrect , and I believe you may be a bit out touch with the real world. Sure if you want to be a doctor, lawyer, physical therapist, college is obviously needed, but when it comes to run of the mill jobs, I guarantee that the carpenters, electricians, sanitation workers make twice the money and have more benefits then most people working in the technology, or any office building that’s not on Wall Street , without the 6 figure debt as well.Going to college doesn’t make you more educated then someone that didn’t, sure you may be more versed in the major you studied but overall it’s not a reflection of intelligence, that may have been the case at one point in time but the last 10 -15 yrs that’s definitely not ...What is your definition of “unskilled labor”.    

What is a "run of the mill" job?  Engineer?  Professor?  Architect? 

You can't argue that level of education and earnings are uncorrelated. That is absurd.  It is a matter of public record the world over.

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10 hours ago, Antitroll2828 said:

This is completely incorrect , and I believe you may be a bit out touch with the real world. Sure if you want to be a doctor, lawyer, physical therapist, college is obviously needed, but when it comes to run of the mill jobs, I guarantee that the carpenters, electricians, sanitation workers make twice the money and have more benefits then most people working in the technology, or any office building that’s not on Wall Street , without the 6 figure debt as well.Going to college doesn’t make you more educated then someone that didn’t, sure you may be more versed in the major you studied but overall it’s not a reflection of intelligence, that may have been the case at one point in time but the last 10 -15 yrs that’s definitely not ...What is your definition of “unskilled labor”.    

I just looked up average technology sector salary and it’s $91,000. Did the same for electricians $50,000.  Perhaps it’s you who’s out of touch?  You don’t think people who “work in office buildings” in every major city outside of NYC/Wall St make good money?  

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35 minutes ago, AnklePicker said:

I just looked up average technology sector salary and it’s $91,000. Did the same for electricians $50,000.  Perhaps it’s you who’s out of touch?  You don’t think people who “work in office buildings” in every major city outside of NYC/Wall St make good money?  

A union electrician makes 100k plus benefits first year out of apprenticeship in nyc same goes for literally any trade outside of laborer, they make around 85 a yr... and your misrepresenting what I said. I was saying you do not need to go to college to get a high paying job and having a degree doesn’t make you smarter then someone who skipped college and started a business at 18 or enlisted in military.

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1 hour ago, Plasmodium said:

You can't write something as careless as that and not get called out. :)

Intelligence and education are not equivalent, so your qualification is wrong as well.

Careless as what? You seem to think that everyone that goes to college is smarter then everyone that doesn’t and that’s just ridiculous and wrong. Do you know how many kids nowadays go to school for 4,5 years and major in the most useless crap, and learn next to nothing. 

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19 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

A union electrician makes 100k plus benefits first year out of apprenticeship in nyc same goes for literally any trade outside of laborer, they make around 85 a yr... and your misrepresenting what I said. I was saying you do not need to go to college to get a high paying job and having a degree doesn’t make you smarter then someone who skipped college and started a business at 18 or enlisted in military.

Yeah and in NYC, tech workers make much more than the National average as well. 

I didn’t misrepresent what you said at all. You said you “guarantee carpenters, electricians and sanitation workers make twice as much...”  The facts say otherwise. 
 

No you don’t need to go to college to get a high paying job and actually having a college degree may not make you “smarter” but it does make you more knowledgeable in whatever subject area you studied.
 

Also don’t union trade workers have to go to school for 4 years themselves?  

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56 minutes ago, AnklePicker said:

Yeah and in NYC, tech workers make much more than the National average as well. 

I didn’t misrepresent what you said at all. You said you “guarantee carpenters, electricians and sanitation workers make twice as much...”  The facts say otherwise. 
 

No you don’t need to go to college to get a high paying job and actually having a college degree may not make you “smarter” but it does make you more knowledgeable in whatever subject area you studied.
 

Also don’t union trade workers have to go to school for 4 years themselves?  

No they don’t, they work full time and go to school for one week every 4 months or so..and I said in my original post "sure you may be more versed in the major you studied but it's not a reflection of intelligence" so idk what you are arguing.

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