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Bad Look for Wrestling

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For the exception of volleyball & field hockey, wrestling was grouped with sports that most didn’t even know existed.  Really, sailing, light weight rowing!  Stanford is one of the most prestigious universities in the world and the people that run that school are smart, successful, and have a lot of influence beyond the campus. Essentially this group said, “Wrestling is one of the sports no one gives a darn about!”

Trouble is ahead for wrestling.

Edited by gowrestle

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58 minutes ago, buck said:

We'll be down to 50 D1 teams in the next 2 years.

The NWCA had a good thing going running the National Dual Meet Tournament. A few coaches didn’t like it and now the event is history. Nothing attracts interest more than a dual meet. At the current rate of D1 programs being dropped, it’s just a matter of time till wrestling loses NCAA recognition. 

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39 minutes ago, gowrestle said:

The NWCA had a good thing going running the National Dual Meet Tournament. A few coaches didn’t like it and now the event is history. Nothing attracts interest more than a dual meet. At the current rate of D1 programs being dropped, it’s just a matter of time till wrestling loses NCAA recognition. 

Yes and no. Sure, duals attract interest. But do they at remote and often neutral sites? Plus generally those duals were often rematches.

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3 hours ago, gimpeltf said:

Yes and no. Sure, duals attract interest. But do they at remote and often neutral sites? Plus generally those duals were often rematches.

Good point Gimp. If college wrestling can develop dual meet rivalries like PBurg/Eastern, Paulsboro/DelVal, Bloomfield/Belleville (back in the day), that would be a game changer. 

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1 hour ago, JasonBryant said:

On the flipside, we've been hearing this doomsday scenario told for the last 15 years ... 

Correct but for the first time, I am not optimistic and just so you know, I’m a pretty positive person. 

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Just now, gowrestle said:

On the flipside, we've been hearing this doomsday scenario told for the last 15 years ..

Programs have been dropping like toilet seats for the last 30.  Wrestling is gymnastics.

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3 minutes ago, gowrestle said:

Good point Gimp. If college wrestling can develop dual meet rivalries like PBurg/Eastern, Paulsboro/DelVal, Bloomfield/Belleville (back in the day), that would be a game changer. 

Problem is, we've been at the mercy of FB/BB determining which conferences we compete in. West Virginia, for example, has its non-rev/Olympic sports budgets impacted immensely because the FB/BB leadership wanted to be in the Big 12. Those costs aren't due to soccer, for example, rather it's the position the school put the soccer team in. Far-flung conferences have had horrible results for non-rev/Olympic sports. 

 

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8 minutes ago, buck said:

Programs have been dropping like toilet seats for the last 30.  Wrestling is gymnastics.

Partially true, partially false. 

In 1981-82
Wrestling had 146 out of 276 D1 schools fielding wrestling (52.9%)
Men's Gymnastics had 59 out of 276 D1 schools fielding wrestling (21.38%)

In 2018-19
Wrestling had 75 of 351 (21.37%)
Men's Gymnastics had 15 of 351 (4.27%)

Source: http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/research/sports-sponsorship-and-participation-research

So we're at the same participation percentage as Men's Gymnastics -- 37 years ago. 

Yes, we've lost a significant number of programs in the last 40 years (the true part), but on more than one occasion, people have come on the boards and made bold predictions asserting we'll be down to x-amount of programs in 2-3-4-5 years. 

You aren't the only one to make this type of claim, which makes me wonder  if some of our fanbase gets off on being the first to speak these hyperbolic, doomsday scenarios with some weird sense of pride. 

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NAIA is the future.  I understand no one agrees with me, but I think this will bear itself out as the years go on.  To clarify, I'm not saying this is a good thing, but I think its reality.  

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23 minutes ago, WRfan1 said:

NAIA is the future.  I understand no one agrees with me, but I think this will bear itself out as the years go on.  To clarify, I'm not saying this is a good thing, but I think its reality.  

The D2 and D3 levels also seem to be growing. 

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1 hour ago, JasonBryant said:

You aren't the only one to make this type of claim, which makes me wonder  if some of our fanbase gets off on being the first to speak these hyperbolic, doomsday scenarios with some weird sense of pride. 

No it's more rant than getting off on typing it.   I hate what's happened to D1 wrestling.  70 teams is simply a disaster. 

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Quote

For the exception of volleyball & field hockey, wrestling was grouped with sports that most didn’t even know existed.  Really, sailing, light weight rowing!  Stanford is one of the most prestigious universities in the world and the people that run that school are smart, successful, and have a lot of influence beyond the campus. Essentially this group said, “Wrestling is one of the sports no one gives a darn about!”

On one level, this is correct.  But it's probably more accurate to say that it is viewed as a sport that can be sacrificed for the sake of competitiveness in the sports that "matter".   From our point of view, that probably doesn't make any difference.  We've known this to be the case for several decades now. 

Stanford has the problem shared by Northwestern and Duke, and in part by a few others (Vanderbilt) that are high academic schools in big-time sports conferences.  Their description of their reasoning seems to be that they want to focus resources on competing at a high level in football and basketball, and that these are reasonable trade-offs to make.  They think of themselves as elite, and they don't like being in the middle of the pack in the high visibility athletics. 

I was surprised to learn that Stanford wasn't using the full 9.9 scholarships.  That's probably because you can find some high level competent wrestlers from higher income families who will pay the jacked-up full freight price for a Stanford degree instead of taking a full or partial scholarship from whomever. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, JasonBryant said:

Problem is, we've been at the mercy of FB/BB determining which conferences we compete in. West Virginia, for example, has its non-rev/Olympic sports budgets impacted immensely because the FB/BB leadership wanted to be in the Big 12. Those costs aren't due to soccer, for example, rather it's the position the school put the soccer team in. Far-flung conferences have had horrible results for non-rev/Olympic sports. 

 

100% correct.  Not fun being the "step child."

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11 hours ago, buck said:

We'll be down to 50 D1 teams in the next 2 years.

Condensed Talent,  Good For Fans,  HORRIBLE for Participation,  Maybe they can add Division 2 and 3 and NAIA and Just have one Division?

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10 hours ago, gowrestle said:

The NWCA had a good thing going running the National Dual Meet Tournament. A few coaches didn’t like it and now the event is history. Nothing attracts interest more than a dual meet. At the current rate of D1 programs being dropped, it’s just a matter of time till wrestling loses NCAA recognition. 

I agree.  Dual meets would have defeated covid and Title 9 and universities going broke.  

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6 hours ago, JasonBryant said:

Partially true, partially false. 

In 1981-82
Wrestling had 146 out of 276 D1 schools fielding wrestling (52.9%)
Men's Gymnastics had 59 out of 276 D1 schools fielding wrestling (21.38%)

In 2018-19
Wrestling had 75 of 351 (21.37%)
Men's Gymnastics had 15 of 351 (4.27%)

Source: http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/research/sports-sponsorship-and-participation-research

So we're at the same participation percentage as Men's Gymnastics -- 37 years ago. 

Yes, we've lost a significant number of programs in the last 40 years (the true part), but on more than one occasion, people have come on the boards and made bold predictions asserting we'll be down to x-amount of programs in 2-3-4-5 years. 

You aren't the only one to make this type of claim, which makes me wonder  if some of our fanbase gets off on being the first to speak these hyperbolic, doomsday scenarios with some weird sense of pride. 

It's a shame that database only reaches back to 1982.  With Title IX becoming law in 1974, I'm curious to see gymnastics participation then.  My suspicion is that gymnastics was more drastically impacted in the early years of Title IX than wrestling.

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9 hours ago, WRfan1 said:

NAIA is the future.  I understand no one agrees with me, but I think this will bear itself out as the years go on.  To clarify, I'm not saying this is a good thing, but I think its reality.  

Does NAIA stand for No Athletic Investigation Allowed? Or is it No Academic Investigation Allowed? 

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5 hours ago, lu_alum said:

It's a shame that database only reaches back to 1982.  With Title IX becoming law in 1974, I'm curious to see gymnastics participation then.  My suspicion is that gymnastics was more drastically impacted in the early years of Title IX than wrestling.

I believe it has to do with when the NCAA officially included women's sports. Prior to that, the participation records (are spotty) and were only logged once every five years. Even though Title IX was enacted in 1972, it's real teeth didn't start showing with backwards-thinking athletic leadership until 1979. Three years after the real enforcement of Title IX, we have official NCAA participation records. 

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8 hours ago, boconnell said:

I agree.  Dual meets would have defeated covid and Title 9 and universities going broke.  

Good points. You forgot to add hypertension, air pollution, Morgan’s disease, and deficit spending by the government. 

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5 hours ago, gowrestle said:

The NWCA had a good thing going running the National Dual Meet Tournament. A few coaches didn’t like it and now the event is history. Nothing attracts interest more than a dual meet. At the current rate of D1 programs being dropped, it’s just a matter of time till wrestling loses NCAA recognition. 

The NCAA tourney is packed, tough to do better than selling out an larger and larger arenas year after year. I enjoy duals a lot, but as someone who it already a wrestling fan, I much prefer tournaments, as I get to see more matches and typically better wrestling.  The idea that a dual meet championship will change the fortunes of the sport feels similar to that of the two-piece singlet - its really hasn't changed much. 

 Regardless, an emphasis on dual meets would have done nothing to change the reasoning given by schools like Stanford. 

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On 7/9/2020 at 9:08 AM, gimpeltf said:

Yes and no. Sure, duals attract interest. But do they at remote and often neutral sites? Plus generally those duals were often rematches.

Also, multiple duals in one day see a decline in attendance. 

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