Over/under 9.5 D1 wrestling teams cut

[CoachWrestling 317]

Unfortunately I'm going over. This will really devastate the sport. 

[RichB 192]

Can Air Force survive when they are the only D1 west of Ames and Stillwater?

 

[gimpeltf 1,531]

33 minutes ago, RichB said:

Can Air Force survive when they are the only D1 west of Ames and Stillwater?

 

They can fly for free!

[1032004 889]

2 hours ago, CoachWrestling said:

Unfortunately I'm going over. This will really devastate the sport. 

What is the timeframe for this prediction?

The crappy thing is both ODU and Stanford have cited the % of schools sponsoring.   I feel like that's basically a double whammy from Title IX.  Title IX caused a lot of the cuts years ago, which resulted in a lower % of schools sponsoring - so now schools are using that as an excuse to cut it now.

[JasonBryant 1,675]

56 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

What is the timeframe for this prediction?

The crappy thing is both ODU and Stanford have cited the % of schools sponsoring.   I feel like that's basically a double whammy from Title IX.  Title IX caused a lot of the cuts years ago, which resulted in a lower % of schools sponsoring - so now schools are using that as an excuse to cut it now.

Such a freaking cop-out, too. 

Schools: "We don't feel the need to serve the underserved" 
Also: "We have no vision, imagination or desire to be innovative" 

[Billyhoyle 1,988]

The bottom line is that university ADs have every reason to cut wrestling and every other non revenue sport above the minimum required by the NCAA.  More than title IX, the reason these programs are being cut is the huge increases in tuition where 9.9 scholarships now cost hundreds of thousands of dollars per year.  It’s critical that the alumni at every D1 team left organize and start fundraising to build external trusts/endowments not controlled by the university but that provide guaranteed funding every year to the uni for the sport. 
 

The fact that Stanford chose to cut wrestling before many other non revenue sports reflects a failure among their alumni to do this. The key is to demonstrate that wrestling has value to the university and should not be the sport to get axed. We need to stop being reactive to these situations and start taking proactive measures to maintain what we have left.

[pamela 1,334]

1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

What is the timeframe for this prediction?

The crappy thing is both ODU and Stanford have cited the % of schools sponsoring.   I feel like that's basically a double whammy from Title IX.  Title IX caused a lot of the cuts years ago, which resulted in a lower % of schools sponsoring - so now schools are using that as an excuse to cut it now.

This. It’s a bad look in general when a P5 program does it, but Stanford was an exemplar of what a D1 Athletic Department should look like, so it especially sucks when they cut all those sports and their excuse is, “but everyone else is doing it”. Stanford can afford to fund its sports. They have the #3 endowment, and who knows how much of that capital is actually available, but they pull in over $1bil a year just in fundraising and turned down CARES funding from the federal government a couple of months ago. The “at-risk” sports teams could have worked with the SAA to run a mini-fundraising campaign which might have saved their teams if only they were given the chance. Uncle Phil (last donated $400mil) and Uncle Bill could have saved wrestling with the change under their sofa cushions. The cuts at Stanford feel sinister and ill-motivated.

[JasonBryant 1,675]

There are leaders and there are followers. There are leaders and there are pretenders. 

We're seeing who the pretenders are with what schools are opting to cut sports right now. 

[RichB 192]

I might have thought Stanford Rpwing was a bigger surprise, but they are non NCAA. I wonder if they consider themselves not competitive with Cal-Berkley, Like Lafayette not being able to compete in wrestling with Lehigh, despite being at the locus of HS wresting.

 

[1032004 889]

2 hours ago, Billyhoyle said:

The bottom line is that university ADs have every reason to cut wrestling and every other non revenue sport above the minimum required by the NCAA.  More than title IX, the reason these programs are being cut is the huge increases in tuition where 9.9 scholarships now cost hundreds of thousands of dollars per year.  

Except Stanford said they don't have 9.9 and basically used that (the fact that they don't) as one of their reasons for cutting wrestling..

[gimpeltf 1,531]

22 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Except Stanford said they don't have 9.9 and basically used that (the fact that they don't) as one of their reasons for cutting wrestling..

Wouldn't that be a reason to keep it since they aren't spending the money?

[1032004 889]

8 minutes ago, gimpeltf said:

Wouldn't that be a reason to keep it since they aren't spending the money?

Exactly.   But their apparent argument was that they would've needed it in order to remain competitive

[Lunaticfringe 19]

You will likely see many of the following dropped sadly

 

Davidson

Campbell

Chattanooga 

SIUE

Ohio

Kent St

Cleveland St

Edinboro

Cal Bakersfield

Cal Poly

Northern Colorado

Buffalo

Bloomsburg 

George Mason

Clarion

 

i also predict we lose 1 or more that we would put into the Safe category. A few candidates I see possibly are

SDSU, NDSU, Oregon St, Lock Haven, NCST and UNC. There will be some more shockers before this is over

 

[jdalu75 93]

25 minutes ago, Lunaticfringe said:

You will likely see many of the following dropped sadly

 

Davidson

Campbell

Chattanooga 

SIUE

Ohio

Kent St

Cleveland St

Edinboro

Cal Bakersfield

Cal Poly

Northern Colorado

Buffalo

Bloomsburg 

George Mason

Clarion

 

Not an EIWA team on the list!  We've got 17 of the D1 programs.

 

 

[SetonHallPirate 836]

3 hours ago, RichB said:

I might have thought Stanford Rpwing was a bigger surprise, but they are non NCAA. I wonder if they consider themselves not competitive with Cal-Berkley, Like Lafayette not being able to compete in wrestling with Lehigh, despite being at the locus of HS wresting.

 

Women's rowing is an NCAA sport.

[1032004 889]

3 hours ago, Lunaticfringe said:

You will likely see many of the following dropped sadly

 

Davidson

Campbell

Chattanooga 

SIUE

Ohio

Kent St

Cleveland St

Edinboro

Cal Bakersfield

Cal Poly

Northern Colorado

Buffalo

Bloomsburg 

George Mason

Clarion

 

i also predict we lose 1 or more that we would put into the Safe category. A few candidates I see possibly are

SDSU, NDSU, Oregon St, Lock Haven, NCST and UNC. There will be some more shockers before this is over

 

I mean are you just listing a bunch of mid-majors with no reasoning?

Not saying it won’t happen, but Northern Colorado already announced they were dropping tennis.

George Mason in particular appears to be “safe”:

 

Would App State and Central Michigan have been on your list prior to when those schools made the announcements of the sports they were dropping?

Again, not saying it won’t happen, but it seems silly to speculate on it unless it involves people making donations to those programs.

 

Edited July 10, 2020 by 1032004

[pamela 1,334]

6 hours ago, RichB said:

I might have thought Stanford Rpwing was a bigger surprise, but they are non NCAA. I wonder if they consider themselves not competitive with Cal-Berkley, Like Lafayette not being able to compete in wrestling with Lehigh, despite being at the locus of HS wresting.

 

I didn't realize that Stanford men's rowing was non-NCAA. They compete with Cal in rowing every year.

 

On a tangentialy-related note, UC Berkeley announced 47 new Covid cases in a week. It may not sound like much, but Cal had just 23 cases total since the beginning of the pandemic until last week. The school has had testing available since March, when the campus shut down but it's unclear whether students and staff were actually getting tested. The public health contact tracers seem to point to a block party on Greek Row last month. Either way, it's put the Fall campus reopening in jeopardy, which puts sports at risk, which puts the Pac at risk, etc. etc.

[gimpeltf 1,531]

Lehigh men's rowing is a club. Women's is varsity.

[cu155 15]

6 hours ago, RichB said:

I might have thought Stanford Rpwing was a bigger surprise, but they are non NCAA. I wonder if they consider themselves not competitive with Cal-Berkley, Like Lafayette not being able to compete in wrestling with Lehigh, despite being at the locus of HS wresting.

 

It's not competitive with either Cal or UW which are the two big west coast powerhouse rowing programs.  This may also have something to do with it.

[Lunaticfringe 19]

3 hours ago, 1032004 said:

I mean are you just listing a bunch of mid-majors with no reasoning?

Not saying it won’t happen, but Northern Colorado already announced they were dropping tennis.

George Mason in particular appears to be “safe”:

 

Would App State and Central Michigan have been on your list prior to when those schools made the announcements of the sports they were dropping?

Again, not saying it won’t happen, but it seems silly to speculate on it unless it involves people making donations to those programs.

 

They would have, they could possibly be dropped as well. I am of the belief we will likely have 3 conference qualifiers for wrestling when all said and done here, essentially they will be East, West and Midwest. Midwest being Big 10 and probably the few MAC teams left. East is EWL and EIWA and West is Big 12, PAC 12 and if any left SOCON

 

[Billyhoyle 1,988]

12 hours ago, JasonBryant said:

There are leaders and there are followers. There are leaders and there are pretenders. 

We're seeing who the pretenders are with what schools are opting to cut sports right now. 

These schools have had to halt all hiring and cut benefits for staff and faculty. Now with the decreased revenue from football/basketball, what are they supposed to do to cut spending in the athletic department? It's impossible not to cut something-they can't just print money. We need to try to put wrestling programs in a position where universities see value in keeping them. And for the ones like Stanford where the decision has already been made, start a plan to get the sport reinstated as they did at Fresno state.  This is going to take organizing from alumni and $$$$$.

Edited July 10, 2020 by Billyhoyle

[pamela 1,334]

1 hour ago, Billyhoyle said:

These schools have had to halt all hiring and cut benefits for staff and faculty. Now with the decreased revenue from football/basketball, what are they supposed to do to cut spending in the athletic department? It's impossible not to cut something-they can't just print money. We need to try to put wrestling programs in a position where universities see value in keeping them. And for the ones like Stanford where the decision has already been made, start a plan to get the sport reinstated as they did at Fresno state.  This is going to take organizing from alumni and $$$$$.

Your path forward is spot on, and maybe it's pointless to fuss over what Stanford did or why.

Howevvah.

Stanford turned down $7.4mil in CARES Act relief funding in April, which seemed like an honorable gesture at the time because the university said smaller schools needed the money more. But then they drop wrestling and a bunch of sports, citing an irreconcilable $12mil budget deficit projection for FY21. That edu block grant would have at the very least provided a little bit of runway for those sports to engage with alums and sponsors to save themselves. It's hard to accept the situation and move on in this case so quickly without thoroughly asking: wtf?

[RichB 192]

10 hours ago, gimpeltf said:

Lehigh men's rowing is a club. Women's is varsity.

Men's is club varsity, but that is a technicality, allowing LU to avoid T9 potential problems. Simple enough, not an NCAA sport, also an unofficial  Patriot League sport. Otherwise they are treated,  pretty much, the same. This is why so many are idiotic to complain about women's rowing (which dates to 1875 at Welsley.)

I suppose the PSAC teams may drop to D2. Lock Haven  Would be least likely to downgrade, since their Field Hockey is D1

[RichB 192]

Stanford also replaced a 90,000 seat football stadium, which once held the Super Bowl, with a 50,000 seat stadium. Why? (Luxury boxes?) I do not see Penn tearing down Franklin Field

[1032004 889]

Lunaticfringe, similar to my question for OP, what time frame are you predicting this for?

You wouldn’t be surprised to see every school in the SoCon drop wrestling?  That would surprise me.

Edited July 10, 2020 by 1032004