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West Coast D I Wrestling.....

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29 minutes ago, Pinnum said:

Okay, so if I am understanding you; I think this is worse than originally thought.

Let's run through this and correct me if I am wrong...

  • Team A = Oregon State
  • Team B = Arizona State
  • Team C = Little Rock

So...

  • Little Rock flies to Oregon State for one Dual on Day X.
  • Arizona State flies to Oregon State for one Dual on Day X.
  • Oregon State has two duals (Little Rock and Arizona State) on Day X.

Did I get that right?

So there is no benefit for Little Rock.  They spend the same amount of money as they would have anyways for a single dual.  This doesn't help them any.  It doesn't get them to compete against more teams for the same amount of money they are already set to spend to compete the conference schedule.

The same is true of Arizona State.  Spending the same for a single dual. No change.  No benefit for them.

And for the host, Oregon State now has one home date, rather than two home dates for their fans.  They sell admission to one date rather than two.  Their athletes get one opportunity to compete at home rather than two.

 

This cuts down on home dates.  But home dates are not an issue, in fact, more home dates would be better for programs.  I am really failing to see any benefit in this.  It really seems like a proposal someone who doesn't like wrestling would make so they don't have to be bothered multiple times a season.

Without having given this much thought- the advantage could come in set up costs. Fewer times to clean the place and get it ready and test people coming in. It's the home team that bears the costs for that.

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40 minutes ago, gimpeltf said:

Without having given this much thought- the advantage could come in set up costs. Fewer times to clean the place and get it ready and test people coming in. It's the home team that bears the costs for that.

Yeah, that's fair.  

I did not take this as a covid-centric proposal.  But you're right.  In the current climate, there would be added costs.

But if teams are concerned about the cost of cleaning the gym once a year (in normal conditions) then we have bigger issues and should probably look at some changes all together.

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On 7/13/2020 at 5:32 PM, pamela said:

How does media coverage work in the MPSF? Do they resell their content back to the schools' primary conferences?

I was thinking about your question and I think I remember the Pac12 Commissioner saying part of the reason they were now open to associate membership in "Olympic sports" was due to the expanded media potential.

Possibly that was the reason for your question?

Anyways, I think it would be really interesting if the Pac12 worked to preserve ownership of the conference if they only sponsor two teams. With only two member schools sponsoring the sport and filling the conference with associate members, the associate members should have the upper hand.  But since the WWC schools bailed, they are not easily able to establish a new conference which would leave all the power with the two Pac12 schools. 

 

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Okay, so if I am understanding you; I think this is worse than originally thought.
Let's run through this and correct me if I am wrong...
  • Team A = Oregon State
  • Team B = Arizona State
  • Team C = Little Rock
So...
  • Little Rock flies to Oregon State for one Dual on Day X.
  • Arizona State flies to Oregon State for one Dual on Day X.
  • Oregon State has two duals (Little Rock and Arizona State) on Day X.
Did I get that right?
So there is no benefit for Little Rock.  They spend the same amount of money as they would have anyways for a single dual.  This doesn't help them any.  It doesn't get them to compete against more teams for the same amount of money they are already set to spend to compete the conference schedule.
The same is true of Arizona State.  Spending the same for a single dual. No change.  No benefit for them.
And for the host, Oregon State now has one home date, rather than two home dates for their fans.  They sell admission to one date rather than two.  Their athletes get one opportunity to compete at home rather than two.
 
This cuts down on home dates.  But home dates are not an issue, in fact, more home dates would be better for programs.  I am really failing to see any benefit in this.  It really seems like a proposal someone who doesn't like wrestling would make so they don't have to be bothered multiple times a season.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Why would ASU and Little Rock only have 1 dual? They are both there, they would have a dual. It saves the cost of a trip. ASU did this with Harvard and Campbell last season.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

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45 minutes ago, agoff71 said:

Why would ASU and Little Rock only have 1 dual? They are both there, they would have a dual. It saves the cost of a trip. ASU did this with Harvard and Campbell last season.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk
 

I agree with you.  That’s not what @Bronco said. 

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16 hours ago, Pinnum said:

Okay, so if I am understanding you; I think this is worse than originally thought.

Let's run through this and correct me if I am wrong...

  • Team A = Oregon State
  • Team B = Arizona State
  • Team C = Little Rock

So...

  • Little Rock flies to Oregon State for one Dual on Day X.
  • Arizona State flies to Oregon State for one Dual on Day X.
  • Oregon State has two duals (Little Rock and Arizona State) on Day X.

Did I get that right?

So there is no benefit for Little Rock.  They spend the same amount of money as they would have anyways for a single dual.  This doesn't help them any.  It doesn't get them to compete against more teams for the same amount of money they are already set to spend to compete the conference schedule.

The same is true of Arizona State.  Spending the same for a single dual. No change.  No benefit for them.

And for the host, Oregon State now has one home date, rather than two home dates for their fans.  They sell admission to one date rather than two.  Their athletes get one opportunity to compete at home rather than two.

 

This cuts down on home dates.  But home dates are not an issue, in fact, more home dates would be better for programs.  I am really failing to see any benefit in this.  It really seems like a proposal someone who doesn't like wrestling would make so they don't have to be bothered multiple times a season.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What you fail to take into account here is that EVERY team in the conference would have the option of having one (or two) of these three team duals.   Also I did mention that they could add a non-conference dual to have at least two duals per team.

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16 hours ago, Pinnum said:

Okay, so if I am understanding you; I think this is worse than originally thought.

Let's run through this and correct me if I am wrong...

  • Team A = Oregon State
  • Team B = Arizona State
  • Team C = Little Rock

So...

  • Little Rock flies to Oregon State for one Dual on Day X.
  • Arizona State flies to Oregon State for one Dual on Day X.
  • Oregon State has two duals (Little Rock and Arizona State) on Day X.

Did I get that right?

So there is no benefit for Little Rock.  They spend the same amount of money as they would have anyways for a single dual.  This doesn't help them any.  It doesn't get them to compete against more teams for the same amount of money they are already set to spend to compete the conference schedule.

The same is true of Arizona State.  Spending the same for a single dual. No change.  No benefit for them.

And for the host, Oregon State now has one home date, rather than two home dates for their fans.  They sell admission to one date rather than two.  Their athletes get one opportunity to compete at home rather than two.

 

This cuts down on home dates.  But home dates are not an issue, in fact, more home dates would be better for programs.  I am really failing to see any benefit in this.  It really seems like a proposal someone who doesn't like wrestling would make so they don't have to be bothered multiple times a season.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What you fail to take into account here is that EVERY team in the conference would have the option of having one (or two) of these three team duals.   Also I did mention that they could add a non-conference dual to have at least two duals per team.

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1 hour ago, Bronco said:

What you fail to take into account here is that EVERY team in the conference would have the option of having one (or two) of these three team duals.   

What's the benefit in that?  

Every team becomes Team A.  Did I miss something in my review of the costs and benefits of the three teams?  What is the benefit to Team A?

 

1 hour ago, Bronco said:

Also I did mention that they could add a non-conference dual to have at least two duals per team.

Yes, you did throw that in at the end though it wasn't your original point.  

 

This is what you said:

 

Quote

"I have been a proponent of three team duals (in conference) for a long time.   To me it makes a LOT of sense to do that.  Don't know about 4 team duals tho.

And then you followed it up with:

Quote

"When I referred (above) to CONFERENCE three team duals what I was referring to was School A hosts the dual.  Schools B and C compete against School A but do NOT dual against one another at School A.   Say each school does that once or twice per season.   That gives them two matches and only use one of the NCAA limited dates to do so.   I'm thinking you were referring to all three schools having a dual on the same day against the other two teams."

Yes, you did add this comment at the end when you pivoted away from your original point (so maybe you thought about it more and don't support your original idea anymore):

Quote

"If they bring in another (non-conference) school and have them dual all three schools all the better as then all schools involved would have at least two matches in one day"

 

If you still think the three team conference duals is a good idea... Did I understand your three team conference dual proposal, correctly?  Was the big benefit the fact that the home team wouldn't have to host two single duals but would be able to have two teams fly in for a single dual each to give the home team two duals in one day?

 

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On 7/15/2020 at 3:21 PM, Pinnum said:

I was thinking about your question and I think I remember the Pac12 Commissioner saying part of the reason they were now open to associate membership in "Olympic sports" was due to the expanded media potential.

Possibly that was the reason for your question?

Anyways, I think it would be really interesting if the Pac12 worked to preserve ownership of the conference if they only sponsor two teams. With only two member schools sponsoring the sport and filling the conference with associate members, the associate members should have the upper hand.  But since the WWC schools bailed, they are not easily able to establish a new conference which would leave all the power with the two Pac12 schools. 

 

Yah, I think Larry Scott's strategy coming into the conference was to monetize Olympic sports media rather than try to out-SEC the SEC in football (or the B1G), which I guess is not a bad idea given the Pac's geographic and cultural ties with the APAC market internationally. Kinda similar to how he expanded pro tennis? Idk. 

Not sure how a 2 + 3 membership would work out for Pac-12 wrestling, but I'm inclined to believe that the conference will try to hold onto the sport for the reason you mentioned, but also because relinquishing it to a pseudoconference like the WWC or MPSF could de-leverage the Pac if there's another conference realignment or if the third-party conference gets swooped up like the Big12 did.

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