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Merged: Downey thread

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37 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

good lord, ljb is insufferable. it's been a long time since i've seen anyone be more wrong at every turn on these boards. which is an accomplishment of some sort.

Did you finish your juice box, Willie?

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14 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

I know what he did. He also came out and ate crow about it too. He knew he messed up and had interpreted it wrong. He will do what needs to be done to save face and prove he isn't that sort of evil.

Blue Dragons Jr? He's proven he is time and time again.

He should have known quoting (who he thought was) Hitler wasn’t a good idea.

The issue IMO with this comparison isn’t that Downey shouldn’t have gotten the boot, it’s that Jackson should have.  Especially considering he’s not that good anymore.  But I imagine the Eagles didn’t want to be labeled racists since they didn’t cut Riley Cooper several years back for calling someone the n-word.

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1 hour ago, VakAttack said:

100% no.  Everybody faces consequences for things they say, the Constitution only says that the government will not infringe on your rights to Free Speech (even though it does in some select circumstances).

ETA:  People lose their jobs all the time for saying stupid things.

You are 100% wrong here. I get to have my opinion and I get to voice it without fear of being punished. This includes my opinions on both women's wrestling and men's volleyball. (To be clear, I'm certainly not claiming the same for PD3 or for those affiliated with USA volleyball.)

52 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

It's completely fine for you to say you don't enjoy women's wrestling. It will rub some the wrong way and others will agree. You're entitled to that right.

But you're also not an active US wrestler (I'm assuming). PD3 can talk all he wants, but when it comes down to it, if he wants to be a part of the NJRTC, his teammates and coaches need to feel comfortable with him being there. Denigrating your potential teammates is a great way to be out of a spot. Room chemistry is so important for building a great training location. 

Also important to note, Chris Ayres' daughter is a high school state champ in NJ and a very good up and coming wrestler. You think he wants a guy in his room who publicly belittles his daughter?

I agree. And this was my point exactly.

I have no problem with PD3 being dropped from the NJRTC. As a team member he had responsibilities he needed to live up to in terms of supporting the program with his comments. He didn't. Calling him out for not being supportive is perfectly fine.

That being said, it's OK for me to think, and say, that most wrestling fans don't enjoy women's wrestling. Particularly if the current numbers back it up. Personally hateful posts directed toward me because of this would not be OK. Some of the hateful posts I read today made me cringe, and reminded me of what a cesspool social media has become. 

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1 hour ago, nhs67 said:

I know what he did. He also came out and ate crow about it too. He knew he messed up and had interpreted it wrong. He will do what needs to be done to save face and prove he isn't that sort of evil.

Blue Dragons Jr? He's proven he is time and time again.

You think your're quoting Hitler to back up your point?  You are done.  Gone.  Evil.

And you support him? 

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4 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

You think your're quoting Hitler to back up your point?  You are done.  Gone.  Evil.

And you support him? 

dude... it's just hitler...

not like hitler ever made some silly comments about someone who wore my favorite color singlet 5 years ago...

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1 hour ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

You are 100% wrong here. I get to have my opinion and I get to voice it without fear of being punished. This includes my opinions on both women's wrestling and men's volleyball. (To be clear, I'm certainly not claiming the same for PD3 or for those affiliated with USA volleyball.)

I agree. And this was my point exactly.

I have no problem with PD3 being dropped from the NJRTC. As a team member he had responsibilities he needed to live up to in terms of supporting the program with his comments. He didn't. Calling him out for not being supportive is perfectly fine.

That being said, it's OK for me to think, and say, that most wrestling fans don't enjoy women's wrestling. Particularly if the current numbers back it up. Personally hateful posts directed toward me because of this would not be OK. Some of the hateful posts I read today made me cringe, and reminded me of what a cesspool social media has become. 

This isn't true (am I correct in remembering Vak is a lawyer?). You can absolutely be punished for your speech as long as it's not the government punishing you.

I personally think that employment being tied to speech is problematic which is why I'd like to see at-will employment ended in this country, but you're completely wrong to say that you get to say whatever you want without fear of being punished. 

And something to maybe think about. You complained about "hateful" posts on social media. Well, many people would also consider your beliefs to be hateful even though you don't think they are. You don't have a monopoly on determining what views are acceptable and what aren't.

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8 minutes ago, SamStall365247 said:

Coach Ayres’s daughter is an excellent wrestler and he is a huge proponent of women’s wrestling. Just some context for you guys to consider. I would have fired PD3 too. 

First thing I thought of. I actually found this out during quarantine when he started posting technique videos on his twitter and she was his practice dummy lol. Highly recommend checking those out, tons of great technique.

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6 minutes ago, gimpeltf said:

Chloe did post something about it. Not happy.

PD3 has posted an apology.

The back up plan!

@LJB I'm not sure you know this, but Blue Dragons is almost assuredly Downey's father.  Legit.  He's been on here before with the same style.

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1 minute ago, VakAttack said:

The back up plan!

@LJB I'm not sure you know this, but Blue Dragons is almost assuredly Downey's father.  Legit.  He's been on here before with the same style.

i understand that is the rumor...

either way, he is as insufferable as the rest of the meatheads...

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59 minutes ago, gimpeltf said:

PD3 has posted an apology.

Flo feeling some heat about keeping him on the card likely led to him making the statement. They keep silent from the issue, but we’re quick to retweet his apology.   Glad to he was willing to backtrack some of his words, but hopefully some of it also came from an internal review of how he approaches a topic before posting too.  

Edited by MadMardigain

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1 hour ago, SamStall365247 said:

Coach Ayres’s daughter is an excellent wrestler and he is a huge proponent of women’s wrestling. Just some context for you guys to consider. I would have fired PD3 too. 

I was going to make a comment about them not having any women resident athletes, but apparently they only have 3 total counting Downey?   Graff and Ashnault are the only 2 others according to their website.

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5 hours ago, gimpeltf said:

PD3 has posted an apology.

 

Boy and the RattleSnake Story


 
A little boy was walking down a path and he came across a rattlesnake. The rattlesnake was getting old. He asked, "Please little boy, can you take me to the top of the mountain? I hope to see the sunset one last time before I die." The little boy answered "No Mr. Rattlesnake. If I pick you up, you'll bite me and I'll die." The rattlesnake said, "No, I promise. I won't bite you. Just please take me up to the mountain." The little boy thought about it and finally picked up that rattlesnake and took it close to his chest and carried it up to the top of the mountain.

They sat there and watched the sunset together. It was so beautiful. Then after sunset the rattlesnake turned to the little boy and asked, "Can I go home now? I am tired, and I am old." The little boy picked up the rattlesnake and again took it to his chest and held it tightly and safely. He came all the way down the mountain holding the snake carefully and took it to his home to give him some food and a place to sleep. The next day the rattlesnake turned to the boy and asked, "Please little boy, will you take me back to my home now? It is time for me to leave this world, and I would like to be at my home now." The little boy felt he had been safe all this time and the snake had kept his word, so he would take it home as asked.

He carefully picked up the snake, took it close to his chest, and carried him back to the woods, to his home to die. Just before he laid the rattlesnake down, the rattlesnake turned and bit him in the chest. The little boy cried out and threw the snake upon the ground. "Mr. Snake, why did you do that? Now I will surely die!" The rattlesnake looked up at him and grinned, "You knew what I was when you picked me up."
Edited by matts1w

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1 hour ago, uncle bernard said:

This isn't true (am I correct in remembering Vak is a lawyer?). You can absolutely be punished for your speech as long as it's not the government punishing you.

I personally think that employment being tied to speech is problematic which is why I'd like to see at-will employment ended in this country, but you're completely wrong to say that you get to say whatever you want without fear of being punished. 

And something to maybe think about. You complained about "hateful" posts on social media. Well, many people would also consider your beliefs to be hateful even though you don't think they are. You don't have a monopoly on determining what views are acceptable and what aren't.

Yes, I do realize Vak is at least educated about the law. I'm not certain of his exact status right now. 

When you say "You" can be punished for voicing your opinion on women's wrestling, you're going to have to be more specific. To be clear - Yes, PD3 can be punished. But, NO, I cannot as long as my affiliations and relationships aren't related in such a way that I'm a potential target.

In other words - You are wrong here. I absolutely get to say that I don't enjoy women's wrestling nearly as much as men's wrestling without fear of being punished. (That being said, what you consider punishment vs what I consider punishment may not necessarily align. So there is a gray area there.)

I never said or implied that I "get to say whatever I want" per your post. Obviously there are limits but my scope here is limited to my opinion on watching the sports of wrestling and volleyball.

This is VERY similar to the Kaepernick vs NFL situation. (Which is one of the reasons I find it so interesting.)

From a legal perspective - as an employee of the 49ers/NFL, according to the law he had limited freedom to express his personal opinions and concerns while an employee and while at work. Seems open and shut per your and Vak's logic.

... or is it? That topic got interesting very quickly, and continues to be highly relevant.

And here's something for you to think about - my beliefs here are about freedom of speech and being able to communicate with mutual respect. That is my singular point. None of us have a monopoly on determining what is acceptable or hateful. Neither Vak, you, or I. But that's not an excuse to keep us from promoting respect and not condoning hate.

I'm a strong advocate of applying the Golden Rule as often as possible. I believe it will help us go further together than any other approach.

I post with respect to you and, in turn, hope that you will post with the same level of respect. 

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There are two key reasons that people lose their jobs after saying things that people find offensive/controversial.  The first is bad PR for the company/organization.  But more impactful, in my opinion, is the potential for wrongful termination lawsuits.  If offensive comments are made publicly by an individual in an organization against a protected class of people (race, sex, etc), and the organization fails to take action, any member of that protected class who subsequently gets terminated can point to that individual as cause for wrongful termination based on that protected class. For example, it can be claimed that the presence of that individual created a hostile work environment-in any type of "he said she said" situation, nobody is going to believe the person with the offensive comments on public record. Of course, it won't guarantee that they win a wrongful termination lawsuit or that everybody who is terminated will sue for wrongful termination, but it creates liability that any sane organization will want to avoid.  

 

In terms of Downey, it's also possible NJRTC was just fed up with him and this was an easy reason to get him out.  The bottom line is he should go to MMA-in MMA it doesn't matter if you are loved or hated-everyone who wants to see you get beaten up becomes your customer. 

Edited by Billyhoyle

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4 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

There are two key reasons that people lose their jobs after saying things that people find offensive/controversial.  The first is bad PR for the company/organization.  But more impactful, in my opinion, is the potential for wrongful termination lawsuits.  If offensive comments are made publicly by an individual in an organization against a protected class of people (race, sex, etc), and the organization fails to take action, any member of that protected class who subsequently gets terminated can point to that individual as cause for wrongful termination based on that protected class. For example, it can be claimed that the presence of that individual created a hostile work environment-in any type of "he said she said" situation, nobody is going to believe the person with the offensive comments on public record. Of course, it won't guarantee that they win a wrongful termination lawsuit or that everybody who is terminated will sue for wrongful termination, but it creates liability that any sane organization will want to avoid.  

 

In terms of Downey, it's also possible NJRTC was just fed up with him and this was an easy reason to get him out.  The bottom line is he should go to MMA-in MMA it doesn't matter if you are loved or hated-everyone who wants to see you get beaten up becomes your customer. 

i can not disagree with any of this...

 

downey...

just go to MMA where there is way less thin skin and less subsidizing... your shtick will make you money instead of offending a bunch of never weres...

just leave the whiners behind and make a pay check...

no shame in that...

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