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Drama aside, how much should the women get paid?

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6 minutes ago, alliseeisgold said:

helen maroulis is butthurt there just isn't a flo doc about her yet. 

women don't really drive traffic in any sport. And will do so less in wrestling. Theres more womens basketball players and potential female viewers with interest in basketball than females with interest in wrestling. It's all male viewership they would be relying on and is a real man going to honestly say he can get hyped up for a womens match like he can dake/chamizo ?? 

and women won't either. they prefer watching male sports. Because both genders see the difference between high level and low level. Women watch nba and don't watch wnba.

Males were put on this earth to do combat high level sports and women are inherently more boring to watch doing athletic skill than men. It's just biology. They don't have the strength, speed, etc to make it exciting. These are just facts. Not opinion. Women agree with these facts or they would support their own.

All the more shame to the pat downey situation. A man gets slammed for stating facts.

Lol @ your first sentence. 
 

edited to add: and lmao the rest of your post. 

Edited by nyum

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1 hour ago, alliseeisgold said:

helen maroulis is butthurt there just isn't a flo doc about her yet. 

women don't really drive traffic in any sport. And will do so less in wrestling. Theres more womens basketball players and potential female viewers with interest in basketball than females with interest in wrestling. It's all male viewership they would be relying on and is a real man going to honestly say he can get hyped up for a womens match like he can dake/chamizo ?? 

and women won't either. they prefer watching male sports. Because both genders see the difference between high level and low level. Women watch nba and don't watch wnba.

Males were put on this earth to do combat high level sports and women are inherently more boring to watch doing athletic skill than men. It's just biology. They don't have the strength, speed, etc to make it exciting. These are just facts. Not opinion. Women agree with these facts or they would support their own.

All the more shame to the pat downey situation. A man gets slammed for stating facts.

Maybe change your handle name to something in reference to Downey instead of JB.  

Edited by Billyhoyle

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7 hours ago, alliseeisgold said:

helen maroulis is butthurt there just isn't a flo doc about her yet. 

...is a real man going to honestly say he can get hyped up for a womens match...

...Males were put on this earth to do combat high level sports and women are inherently more boring to watch doing athletic skill than men...

...These are just facts. Not opinion. Women agree with these facts...

Ha!

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helen maroulis is butthurt there just isn't a flo doc about her yet. 
women don't really drive traffic in any sport. And will do so less in wrestling. Theres more womens basketball players and potential female viewers with interest in basketball than females with interest in wrestling. It's all male viewership they would be relying on and is a real man going to honestly say he can get hyped up for a womens match like he can dake/chamizo ?? 
and women won't either. they prefer watching male sports. Because both genders see the difference between high level and low level. Women watch nba and don't watch wnba.
Males were put on this earth to do combat high level sports and women are inherently more boring to watch doing athletic skill than men. It's just biology. They don't have the strength, speed, etc to make it exciting. These are just facts. Not opinion. Women agree with these facts or they would support their own.
All the more shame to the pat downey situation. A man gets slammed for stating facts.
Disagree with most of this. Women's soccer is well regarded and the USWNT is very popular. Women's MMA is doing really well, some of the UFC's biggest recent stars are women (Rousey, Nunes). Specifically for wrestling, Helen was arguably the biggest story for USA wrestling, even over Snyder, but at least the second biggest story.

Increased profile for the women would undoubtedly increase their financial viability, but how much? It's possible that our primarily male-watched sport won't support women's wrestling (we are a bit misogynistic as a fan base) , but we don't know.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

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9 hours ago, alliseeisgold said:

helen maroulis is butthurt there just isn't a flo doc about her yet. 

women don't really drive traffic in any sport. And will do so less in wrestling. Theres more womens basketball players and potential female viewers with interest in basketball than females with interest in wrestling. It's all male viewership they would be relying on and is a real man going to honestly say he can get hyped up for a womens match like he can dake/chamizo ?? 

and women won't either. they prefer watching male sports. Because both genders see the difference between high level and low level. Women watch nba and don't watch wnba.

Males were put on this earth to do combat high level sports and women are inherently more boring to watch doing athletic skill than men. It's just biology. They don't have the strength, speed, etc to make it exciting. These are just facts. Not opinion. Women agree with these facts or they would support their own.

All the more shame to the pat downey situation. A man gets slammed for stating facts.

Trolling 8/10, very effective.

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2 hours ago, VakAttack said:

Disagree with most of this. Women's soccer is well regarded and the USWNT is very popular. Women's MMA is doing really well, some of the UFC's biggest recent stars are women (Rousey, Nunes). Specifically for wrestling, Helen was arguably the biggest story for USA wrestling, even over Snyder, but at least the second biggest story.

Increased profile for the women would undoubtedly increase their financial viability, but how much? It's possible that our primarily male-watched sport won't support women's wrestling (we are a bit misogynistic as a fan base) , but we don't know.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 

I've seen a bunch of people bring up the UFC as a good example of "equal" pay.  I'm not that familiar with it, is it (honest question)?

Here were the purses of the recent fight:

Main Card

Kamaru Usman $500,000
Jorge Masvidal $350,000

Alexander Volkanovski $250,000
Max Holloway $300,000

Petr Yan $70,000
Jose Aldo $300,000

Jessica Andrade $105,000
Rose Namajunas $100,000

Amanda Ribas $24,000
Paige VanZant $60,000

Preliminary Card

Volkan Oezdemir $90,000
Jiri Prochazka $12,000

Muslim Salikhov $14,000
Elizeu Zaleski dos Santos $26,000

Makwan Amirkhani $22,000
Danny Henry $16,000

Leonardo Santos $24,000
Roman Bogatov $12,000

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/ufc/1308254/UFC-251-prize-money-purses-Usman-Masvidal-Volkanovski-Holloway

I hadn't heard of any of them other than Usman, Masvidal and Aldo so I have no idea.   I think the women's fight wasn't a championship fight right? But I think I've heard at least one of Andrade/Namajunas was pretty popular?   

I've seen people comment saying "see, this is evidence of equal pay!" but is it really?    Basically just looks like Yan got paid a lot less than the other 5 men on the main card.  And a male from the preliminary card made more than the lower 2 women combined on the main card.

And even if the UFC is pretty good in terms of "equal pay" for women, it hasn't always been like that right?  But I guess that goes back to the women needing to be promoted (like the UFC did with Rousey).

 

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38 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

I've seen a bunch of people bring up the UFC as a good example of "equal" pay.  I'm not that familiar with it, is it (honest question)?

Here were the purses of the recent fight:

Main Card

Kamaru Usman $500,000
Jorge Masvidal $350,000

Alexander Volkanovski $250,000
Max Holloway $300,000

Petr Yan $70,000
Jose Aldo $300,000

Jessica Andrade $105,000
Rose Namajunas $100,000

Amanda Ribas $24,000
Paige VanZant $60,000

Preliminary Card

Volkan Oezdemir $90,000
Jiri Prochazka $12,000

Muslim Salikhov $14,000
Elizeu Zaleski dos Santos $26,000

Makwan Amirkhani $22,000
Danny Henry $16,000

Leonardo Santos $24,000
Roman Bogatov $12,000

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/ufc/1308254/UFC-251-prize-money-purses-Usman-Masvidal-Volkanovski-Holloway

I hadn't heard of any of them other than Usman, Masvidal and Aldo so I have no idea.   I think the women's fight wasn't a championship fight right? But I think I've heard at least one of Andrade/Namajunas was pretty popular?   

I've seen people comment saying "see, this is evidence of equal pay!" but is it really?    Basically just looks like Yan got paid a lot less than the other 5 men on the main card.  And a male from the preliminary card made more than the lower 2 women combined on the main card.

And even if the UFC is pretty good in terms of "equal pay" for women, it hasn't always been like that right?  But I guess that goes back to the women needing to be promoted (like the UFC did with Rousey).

 

https://411mania.com/mma/ufc-250-fighter-salaries-amanda-nunes/

Yes, I think it's a bit chicken and egg.  It's undeniable that more promotion would raise the visibility of female athletes and thus increase their earning and drawing power.  How much is the question?  And should you pay them more now than their actual value?  What if part of the reason their value is low is because you're not promoting them?  It's an interesting philosophical question.

UFC fighter payouts used to be INSANELY low, I think I remember them being like $1k to show $1k to win for the bottom of the card guys.

An interesting addendum to that part of the debate is that UFC cards are obvioulsy mostly PPV, which means they directly generate money, whereas Flo is subscription based, so the event wouldn't.

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4 hours ago, VakAttack said:

Women's MMA is doing really well, some of the UFC's biggest recent stars are women (Rousey, Nunes). Specifically for wrestling, Helen was arguably the biggest story for USA wrestling, even over Snyder, but at least the second biggest story.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 

Rousey I will agree with - Nunes however if you dig a little deeper, is not close to a big star (unfortunately).

Look at her PPV buys:

1. UFC 200 Tate vs. Nunes July 9, 2016 T-Mobile Arena Las Vegas, Nevada, United States 1,009,000
2. UFC 207 Nunes vs. Rousey December 30, 2016 T-Mobile Arena Las Vegas, Nevada, United States 1,100,000
3. UFC 215 Nunes vs. Shevchenko 2 September 9, 2017 Rogers Place Edmonton, Alberta, Canada 100,000
4. UFC 224 Nunes vs. Pennington May 12, 2018 Jeunesse Arena Rio de Janeiro, Brazil 85,000

UFC 200 - featured brock lesnar who ALWAYS pulled in a million+ buys.
UFC 207 - rousey

the two PPV cards that Nunes was the main feature of the card or not being held up by another star - were two of the lowest PPV buyrates ever.

2 hours ago, 1032004 said:

I hadn't heard of any of them other than Usman, Masvidal and Aldo so I have no idea.   I think the women's fight wasn't a championship fight right? But I think I've heard at least one of Andrade/Namajunas was pretty popular?   

I've seen people comment saying "see, this is evidence of equal pay!" but is it really?    Basically just looks like Yan got paid a lot less than the other 5 men on the main card.  And a male from the preliminary card made more than the lower 2 women combined on the main card.

And even if the UFC is pretty good in terms of "equal pay" for women, it hasn't always been like that right?  But I guess that goes back to the women needing to be promoted (like the UFC did with Rousey).

 

Andrade/Namajunas - both former champions.  This was a huge rematch of their championship fight and the qualifier to fight zhang for the championship.

Paige VanZant is a HUGE face/name.  She has 2.6 MILLION followers on instagram and the UFC marketing machine has absolutely been behind her.

1 hour ago, VakAttack said:

https://411mania.com/mma/ufc-250-fighter-salaries-amanda-nunes/

Yes, I think it's a bit chicken and egg.  It's undeniable that more promotion would raise the visibility of female athletes and thus increase their earning and drawing power.  How much is the question?  And should you pay them more now than their actual value?  What if part of the reason their value is low is because you're not promoting them?  It's an interesting philosophical question.

UFC fighter payouts used to be INSANELY low, I think I remember them being like $1k to show $1k to win for the bottom of the card guys.

An interesting addendum to that part of the debate is that UFC cards are obvioulsy mostly PPV, which means they directly generate money, whereas Flo is subscription based, so the event wouldn't.

UFC has tried and tried again to put the marketing machine behind folks like Jędrzejczyk, Nunes, Namajunes, others.  Unfortunately its not up to the UFC who/what "pops" to us consumers (think Rousey, Cyborg, McGregor, etc)  They can push the marketing machine as hard as they can, but they can only get so much and consumers have to do the rest.

Also, slight correction, the majority of UFC cards these days are Fight Nights on ESPN and less PPV cards

EDIT: UFC pay is still far from equal.  Nunes - the greatest female mixed martial artist ever, gets paid 70% of what the standard show money is for a men's title holder.

Edited by Witherman

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I have seen a lot of people claiming certain wrestlers are being paid a certain amount for this event. Where is that information coming from? If the numbers being thrown around are accurate, this is a terrible business decision for Flo.

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1 hour ago, IronChef said:

I have seen a lot of people claiming certain wrestlers are being paid a certain amount for this event. Where is that information coming from? If the numbers being thrown around are accurate, this is a terrible business decision for Flo.

downey tweeted it

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1 hour ago, IronChef said:

I have seen a lot of people claiming certain wrestlers are being paid a certain amount for this event. Where is that information coming from? If the numbers being thrown around are accurate, this is a terrible business decision for Flo.

What was a terrible business decision? 

Also, it seems the $1K that some of the women said they were offered apparently came from Wrestle Like a Girl.   Pyles claims they initially offered women "comparable amounts," but we don't know who or how much.

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