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Flo — Reaping What a Bad Citizen Sows?

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On 7/17/2020 at 4:49 PM, Joe Williamson said:

I really appreciate that, Perry and Uncle Bernard.

No denial of being OP...

Kidding.   Seems a bunch of the Flo lawsuit stories originated from TR Foley.  Not saying he’s making them up,  but maybe he is the OP?

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I have absolutely no question that sport of Wrestling in the USA would be in a better place if Flo never existed.

Countless former fans I know walked away from the sport entirely bc of Flo's antics.

Martin Floreini ought to be ashamed for what he started and what it has done to the sport.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

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1 hour ago, Crash said:

I have absolutely no question that sport of Wrestling in the USA would be in a better place if Flo never existed.

Countless former fans I know walked away from the sport entirely bc of Flo's antics.

Martin Floreini ought to be ashamed for what he started and what it has done to the sport.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
 

"If we could just not watch the sport at all, we'd be in a really great position."

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2 hours ago, Crash said:

I have absolutely no question that sport of Wrestling in the USA would be in a better place if Flo never existed.

Countless former fans I know walked away from the sport entirely bc of Flo's antics.

Martin Floreini ought to be ashamed for what he started and what it has done to the sport.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
 

countless former fans!!!!

you could not possibly count them all... no way humanly possible...

dude... you sure "know" a lot of people... how can you possibly keep up with them all?????

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On 7/17/2020 at 10:40 PM, 1032004 said:

Can’t find anything else about them suing OSU specifically, but also according to Foley they sued Track because they wanted to put the Iowa/OSU dual on NBC. Don’t think I’ve heard that before, not sure if it was more known.

https://intermatwrestle.com/articles/17848

FLOSPORTS, INC. v. COWBOY SPORTS PROPERTIES, LLC, NATIONAL WRESTLING COACHES ASSOCIATION, NBCUNIVERSAL MEDIA, LLC, TRACKWRESTLING.COM, LLC, AND OKLAHOMA STATE UNIVERSITY

Filed in Travis County Texas.

Flo was successful in keeping the rights and stopping the dual from being on National Television.  (I don't think anyone being sued by Flo wanted to pay the money to fight it.)

Basically, if I recall correctly, the dispute seemed to stem from the question of if the National Duals were a post season event or a regular season event.  Everyone but Flo treated them as a post season event but Flo said they were a part of Oklahoma State's regular season and as such they owned the rights to the matches. 

This killed the National Duals which resulted in fewer matches being wrestled and less big duals for fans.  (The NWCA National Duals are exempt from scheduling limits by the NCAA.)

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2 hours ago, Pinnum said:

FLOSPORTS, INC. v. COWBOY SPORTS PROPERTIES, LLC, NATIONAL WRESTLING COACHES ASSOCIATION, NBCUNIVERSAL MEDIA, LLC, TRACKWRESTLING.COM, LLC, AND OKLAHOMA STATE UNIVERSITY

Filed in Travis County Texas.

Flo was successful in keeping the rights and stopping the dual from being on National Television.  (I don't think anyone being sued by Flo wanted to pay the money to fight it.)

Basically, if I recall correctly, the dispute seemed to stem from the question of if the National Duals were a post season event or a regular season event.  Everyone but Flo treated them as a post season event but Flo said they were a part of Oklahoma State's regular season and as such they owned the rights to the matches. 

This killed the National Duals which resulted in fewer matches being wrestled and less big duals for fans.  (The NWCA National Duals are exempt from scheduling limits by the NCAA.)

So Flo killed National Duals, not Cael?

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9 hours ago, Crash said:

I have absolutely no question that sport of Wrestling in the USA would be in a better place if Flo never existed.

Countless former fans I know walked away from the sport entirely bc of Flo's antics.

Martin Floreini ought to be ashamed for what he started and what it has done to the sport.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
 

Wait.  what?

I could maybe see a potential argument that wrestling would be better without Flo, but that would only be because a different company came in to do essentially what Flo does, but we don't know if that would have happened.   I don't really buy the argument that "thank God for Flo, because back in the day all we had was newspaper box scores and waiting a month for the Intermat magazine!" ... Back in the day we also didn't have Netflix/youtube/hulu/Amazon prime/etc.    I think it is plausible that there still would have been extensive streaming of wrestling without Flo,  but we'll never know.

However.  People "walking away from the sport" because of a media company makes no sense.

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2 hours ago, 1032004 said:

Wait.  what?

I could maybe see a potential argument that wrestling would be better without Flo, but that would only be because a different company came in to do essentially what Flo does, but we don't know if that would have happened.   I don't really buy the argument that "thank God for Flo, because back in the day all we had was newspaper box scores and waiting a month for the Intermat magazine!" ... Back in the day we also didn't have Netflix/youtube/hulu/Amazon prime/etc.    I think it is plausible that there still would have been extensive streaming of wrestling without Flo,  but we'll never know.

However.  People "walking away from the sport" because of a media company makes no sense.

Are other niche sports highly streamed outside of the Flo vertical collection, or is it piecemeal?

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1 hour ago, hammerlockthree said:

I don't know whether your are responding to a portion of the argument or refuting it entirely. 

Just asking a question, because I honestly don't know.  Wrestling is the only niche sport I follow, everything else has a national TV deal.  It's hard for me to see a world where FLo (or something just like it) doesn't come in to being but that wrestling is still just as easy to find as it is now thru Flo, but maybe my view is just colored by the actual experience.  Is there another sport similarly situated that has as strong in volume and varied coverage as we get from Flo?

My guess, again, is that if Flo didn't exist, if something else didn't come into being that was similar, we would still be in the dark ages on finding wrestling.  As of right now, it's so much easier to find content and see live matches than it was just 10 years ago.

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6 hours ago, VakAttack said:

Just asking a question, because I honestly don't know.  Wrestling is the only niche sport I follow, everything else has a national TV deal.  It's hard for me to see a world where FLo (or something just like it) doesn't come in to being but that wrestling is still just as easy to find as it is now thru Flo, but maybe my view is just colored by the actual experience.  Is there another sport similarly situated that has as strong in volume and varied coverage as we get from Flo?

My guess, again, is that if Flo didn't exist, if something else didn't come into being that was similar, we would still be in the dark ages on finding wrestling.  As of right now, it's so much easier to find content and see live matches than it was just 10 years ago.

I’m confused when you say “if something else didn’t come into being that was similar.”   I think that was part of my theory - if we didn’t have Flo, we might have a different company that was similar - although of course it’s certainly possible that company could’ve been worse than Flo.

Like you I really only follow wrestling so don’t really know the answer to your question.   Part of the issue is that Flo has a lot of sports so was probably the first to start streaming many of them more extensively.  But taking a quick glance I see ESPN+ appears to cover a lot of lacrosse (although not sure if it’s more than Flo has of wrestling).  Is lacrosse comparable to wrestling in terms of fans?   Maybe there’d be more wrestling on ESPN+ without Flo?  And ESPN+ is $4.99 a month, or $12.99 combined with Hulu and Disney+.    I think most would agree that $12.99 for those 3 services is probably a better value than $12.50 for Flo...

And even with Flo, you have other wrestling streaming/TV available on Track, ESPN+, UWW, BTN/other conference networks, some of the schools have their own streaming, even the NCAA has free video of the D2/D3 finals, many states show their HS finals on tv/online, etc. it’s possible that Flo showed there was interest in it and caused other companies to participate, but it’s also possible that we may have had it even without Flo, again we’ll never really know the answer.

 

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3 hours ago, 1032004 said:

"....although of course it’s certainly possible that company could’ve been worse than Flo....."

No, that is not possible.  

 

Even no company would be better than Flo.  It is bc of Flo that people became so frustrated with technical issues, that they gave up on the sport.

The other issue that has driven people away in hoards are vents that force the audience to watch WFS and Greco intermixed with the only variation of the sport, the care about MFS.

i'm not sure what has hurt the sports more, Flo or WFS.

 

 

Edited by Crash

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1 hour ago, Crash said:

No, that is not possible.  

 

Even no company would be better than Flo.  It is bc of Flo that people became so frustrated with technical issues, that they gave up on the sport.

The other issue that has drive people away in hoards are vents that force the audience to watch WFS and Greco intermixed with the only variation of the sport, the care about MFS.

i'm not sure what has hurt the sports more, Flo or WFS.

caricature of the angry wrestling fan...

a bad sitcom...

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14 hours ago, VakAttack said:

Just asking a question, because I honestly don't know.  Wrestling is the only niche sport I follow, everything else has a national TV deal.  It's hard for me to see a world where FLo (or something just like it) doesn't come in to being but that wrestling is still just as easy to find as it is now thru Flo, but maybe my view is just colored by the actual experience.  Is there another sport similarly situated that has as strong in volume and varied coverage as we get from Flo?

My guess, again, is that if Flo didn't exist, if something else didn't come into being that was similar, we would still be in the dark ages on finding wrestling.  As of right now, it's so much easier to find content and see live matches than it was just 10 years ago.

FloTrack is huge and treated with the same regard is FloWrestling until it hits the pinnacle tier. FloWrestling has done a great job of bringing that to the community at large, whereas track and XC have had a massive global audience for decades at the elite level (nationals, trials, worlds, olympics, diamond league, et al)

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6 hours ago, bnwtwg said:

Also, they have an inside edge on rugby, which is most likely going to overtake football in our lifetimes as the premier tackling sport of choice

I'd argue that rugby is already bigger globally.

I'm 45 now, I played rugby competitively for more than a decade, and I even play the two hand touch variety at least once a week, as well as help my oldest's team when times are "normal". That said, I don't see the U.S. embracing rugby the way it has football in my lifetime. U.S. fans love and promote the violence the game promotes. The NFL, college football, and youth football are institutionalized parts of American culture that will last for another generation beyond me, I suspect, though I wish otherwise.

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2 minutes ago, Tofurky said:

I'd argue that rugby is already bigger globally.

I'm 45 now, I played rugby competitively for more than a decade, and I even play the two hand touch variety at least once a week, as well as help my oldest's team when times are "normal". That said, I don't see the U.S. embracing rugby the way it has football in my lifetime. U.S. fans love and promote the violence the game promotes. The NFL, college football, and youth football are institutionalized parts of American culture that will last for another generation beyond me, I suspect, though I wish otherwise.

i played 2 seasons, way better sport than football

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7 minutes ago, hammerlockthree said:

i played 2 seasons, way better sport than football

ha...

what a coincidence...

i used to do the mess around with a girl who played rugby...

you go, girl...

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2 minutes ago, hammerlockthree said:

I didn't play enough rugby for you...

Butt hurt...

grasping at straws...

girl... what on you going on about...

i dated a thick flip girl who played rugby...

you claim to have played rugby and you whine and chase me like a woman...

the parallels made me chuckle...

i thought you would appreciate me joining the discussion...

are you ever happy?

SMH...

stereotypical female behavior...

 

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On 7/21/2020 at 12:16 PM, Crash said:

I have absolutely no question that sport of Wrestling in the USA would be in a better place if Flo never existed.

Countless former fans I know walked away from the sport entirely bc of Flo's antics.

Martin Floreini ought to be ashamed for what he started and what it has done to the sport.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
 

I assume this is a joke.

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3 minutes ago, NJDan said:

I assume this is a joke.

Oh no... it’s legit...

”countless” fans of a niche’ sport just quit following the sport because of Flo...

we can take a census of a country of 350 mil but know way we could count those fans who no longer follow our nationally afterthought of a sport...

real as a heart attack..

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