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hammerlockthree

If you were picking the 7/25 Card what would it be?

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9 hours ago, ShakaAloha said:

I, too, would pick Nolf over Deakin in a freestyle match.  But didn't Deakin beat James Green at the US Open, whereas Nolf lost to James Green in the semis of the same tournament?  Maybe Deakin is a lot better at freestyle than he is at folk?  

Styles make matches.  Green's superior athleticism and speed is an Achilles heel for Nolf.  For whatever reason(s) it always has been, despite Nolf making more athletic and quicker wrestlers than Green look rudimentary by comparison.  Deakin's length gave Green fits the first time the met.  Green made adjustments and applied them appropriately.

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17 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

McKenna /  Yianni, I get. It was close and depending on your opinion coulda/shoulda gone the other way.

But we have seen Deakin / Nolf and it was not pretty. Deakin nearly stalled his way out of the match....from top position. I've never seen anything like it, though I am admittedly new to this.

That was er.. folk style. This is freestyle. Plus Deakin has improved greatly. (US Open champ beating Green, unbeaten NCAA top seed, etc.)

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Just now, Major Kong said:

That was er.. folk style. This is freestyle. Plus Deakin has improved greatly. (US Open champ beating Green, unbeaten NCAA top seed, etc.)

Er. Watch the video. When you play catch and release it might as well be er...freestyle. They spent less time on the mat in that folk style first period than if it had been freestyle. Just saying its folk style negates nothing.

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I watched the video and you're right, I'm an idiot sandwich who doesn't understand the difference between the scoring and mat strategy between folkstyle and freestyle. My bad.

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On 7/20/2020 at 12:40 PM, bnwtwg said:

More of a "what would I pay to see" rather than try to build a card where each wrestler would only compete in one match and not including the matches actually happening

Downey/ Taylor for the recent soap opera drama

Cox/ Taylor at a catch weight

Nickal/ Taylor because it would be highlights

Cox/ Snyder

Lee/ Fix

Micic/ Fix

Richards/ Micic 

Richards/ Sanders should be on every single undercard going forward

Hall/ Chamizo 

Nickal/ Zahid for the non-stop action and big moves

Deakin/ Nolf

Nolf/ JB and I'm shooting my shot right now: if they ever do meet then Nolf with the upset.

Imar/ Green

Retherford/ DeSanto because it would be interesting to see ADS get a proper thrashing and the refs not able to save him this time. This was a great suggestion above. Karma is undefeated.

McKenna/ Yianni

Gwiz/ Steveson

Cassar/ Gwiz 

Kollin Moore/ Walz

I'll go ahead and bite here.  I'll list them in order of preference for me, with 1 being the most sought after match for me to watch.  I'll also go ahead and list the wrestler I believe would win first.

 

Nickal/Zahid @86: 92kg U23 World Gold VS 86kg Junior World Silver from two years ago, with the disclaimer that to get to Juniors two years ago he beat Nickal?  Paint me interested, as I do believe both of them have grown both physically and technically by leaps and bounds the last 5 years.  I want to see what 2 more years in the PSU room did for Nickal(I do believe he wins relatively easy right now).  I also believe had these two gone 86 keggers last season that both of them would have had a great chance at medaling.  MUCH better than Downey presented us with last season.

Retherford/Desanto @65: I mean... why not?  I think Retherford would win.  Handily.  That said, I also think Desanto has an opening pace that is difficult to simulate or plan for.  Retherford isn't as large as he was in college, and Desanto was rumored to go 141 for much of the start of the season, so this wouldn't be as big of a size mismatch as folks would think.  Paint me pink. I want to see it.

Hall/Chamizo @79: First off, eat me.  I think Hall matches up very well with Chamizo, and being as Hall said he won't be going 74 again, it has to be at 79.  As much as Hall gets hammered on here for being undersized or whatnot, his r

Snyder/Cox @97: I mean... c'mon.  Both are pretty much in their physical primes right now and both would be at their optimal weight(my opinion).  2 of the 5 best wrestlers in the world, if there were a U97KG weight class where everybody under 97 competed.  Why wouldn't we want to see it?  Been since 2012 since we saw them in freestyle, right?

Micic/Fix @57: I think at 133 Micic takes this, comfortably.  That is just my opinion and I think Micic is just a fit for Fix at 133 under folkstyle rules.  At 57, though?  These two would both be considered contenders at 57, if Micic was at 57 for the USofA.  We've seen Micic get horsed(Colon) pretty recently. I think Fix COULD do the same.  I want to see it, though.

Taylor/Downey @86: Only because I wanted the career scorecard to be 30-0 in Taylor's flavor.

JB/Nolf @ 74: Why the eff not?  Had Nolf and Cenzo swapped weights two seasons ago like I had wanted, Cenzo would be a 3xer and Nolf would have began filling out for his senior freestyle weight.  RIght now, JB takes this, however Nolf has that 'IT' factor that could surprise anybody if they keep it close.

Moore/Walz @ 97: Tickle my fancy with this one.  I am a big fan of Moore, and believe he could transition well at 97, however with Snyder there, I don't think he ever sees the team.  Perhaps if he goes 92 he may be our #1 for a year or three after Nickal heads to MMA.  That said, I think Moore wins this one and shows that he may not be the force, but he is a force.

Gwiazdowski/Cassar @125: Mainly because I believe Cassar is a more explosive and fast version than Snyder was when they met.  That said, I don't think Cassar really stands a chance here.  I just want to see it.

IMar/Green @ 74: I think IMar is our firm #3 right now, behind Dake/Burroughs, and I don't know that it is close.  He got sloppy with Nolf in their 2nd match, but aside from that I have seen nothing to indicate a healthy IMar loses to anyone other than those two right now.

Yianni/McKenna @ 65: I believe Yianni is going to be Top 3 for the next 2 cycles... McKenna may keep it close, but I don't think he get's it over on him again.

Lee/Fix @57 (I don't think this is competitive, as much as I wish it were)

Steveson/Gwiazdowski @125: We've seen this one and I don't think Gwiaz beats him again.  Styles make matches and where Gwiaz may control the matchups with Nelson and Bradley, he loses his athletic advantage with Steveson, and that will cost him.

Cox/Taylor @ 92 (technically a catchweight now): Cox is winning it the same way he did before, with superior size, athleticism, and speed (let's not forget that he'll bring the dish soap for the slip'n'slide I'm sure).  I don't see it really going any differently.  In a best of three Taylor may nab one with a blitzkrieg, however Cox is just the better wrestler.

Nolf/Deakin @74: Nolf isn't going back down so it'll have to be 74.  That said, if Deakin was going 74 we'd have seen him there by now.  All that considered, if Nolf stays healthy and adds a bit of size, then we're in for a treat this next cycle.  He should be Top 3 for the foreseeable.  I don't think Deakin sniffs him.

Taylor/Nickal @86: This match has literally happened thousands of times.  I don't think Taylor is ever close to losing this one in a boring, low-scoring affair.

Micic/Richards @57: See answer below, I'm just a big fan of Micic so that is why it is above. Also I believe we saw Micic transcent past Richards during his senior campaign at Illinois.

Richards/Sanders @57: Sorry... Richards is entertaining, but in the order of preference for what I want to see, he is at the bottom being that he isn't up there on our ladder, nor will he be-my opinion)

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Nickal/Zahid would be fun. I think any of Nickal/Ringer/Zahid would have probably made it to day 2 of worlds last year. No one knows where Bo stands though, so this is about as close as we will ever get I have a feeling.

Micic down at 125.6 pounders and more cautious in freestyle is different. He probably beats Richards but...

Richards showed that he is at least fun to watch at the Rumble on the Rooftop + his last showing at the Farrell. May not win, but his matches always get the crowds going.

And I still want to see Taylor take PD3 to the woodshed. I hope USAW lines them up round 1 match 1 whenever the time finally comes.

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5 hours ago, nhs67 said:

I'll go ahead and bite here.  I'll list them in order of preference for me, with 1 being the most sought after match for me to watch.  I'll also go ahead and list the wrestler I believe would win first.

 

Nickal/Zahid @86: 92kg U23 World Gold VS 86kg Junior World Silver from two years ago, with the disclaimer that to get to Juniors two years ago he beat Nickal?  Paint me interested, as I do believe both of them have grown both physically and technically by leaps and bounds the last 5 years.  I want to see what 2 more years in the PSU room did for Nickal(I do believe he wins relatively easy right now).  I also believe had these two gone 86 keggers last season that both of them would have had a great chance at medaling.  MUCH better than Downey presented us with last season.

Retherford/Desanto @65: I mean... why not?  I think Retherford would win.  Handily.  That said, I also think Desanto has an opening pace that is difficult to simulate or plan for.  Retherford isn't as large as he was in college, and Desanto was rumored to go 141 for much of the start of the season, so this wouldn't be as big of a size mismatch as folks would think.  Paint me pink. I want to see it.

Hall/Chamizo @79: First off, eat me.  I think Hall matches up very well with Chamizo, and being as Hall said he won't be going 74 again, it has to be at 79.  As much as Hall gets hammered on here for being undersized or whatnot, his r

Snyder/Cox @97: I mean... c'mon.  Both are pretty much in their physical primes right now and both would be at their optimal weight(my opinion).  2 of the 5 best wrestlers in the world, if there were a U97KG weight class where everybody under 97 competed.  Why wouldn't we want to see it?  Been since 2012 since we saw them in freestyle, right?

Micic/Fix @57: I think at 133 Micic takes this, comfortably.  That is just my opinion and I think Micic is just a fit for Fix at 133 under folkstyle rules.  At 57, though?  These two would both be considered contenders at 57, if Micic was at 57 for the USofA.  We've seen Micic get horsed(Colon) pretty recently. I think Fix COULD do the same.  I want to see it, though.

Taylor/Downey @86: Only because I wanted the career scorecard to be 30-0 in Taylor's flavor.

JB/Nolf @ 74: Why the eff not?  Had Nolf and Cenzo swapped weights two seasons ago like I had wanted, Cenzo would be a 3xer and Nolf would have began filling out for his senior freestyle weight.  RIght now, JB takes this, however Nolf has that 'IT' factor that could surprise anybody if they keep it close.

Moore/Walz @ 97: Tickle my fancy with this one.  I am a big fan of Moore, and believe he could transition well at 97, however with Snyder there, I don't think he ever sees the team.  Perhaps if he goes 92 he may be our #1 for a year or three after Nickal heads to MMA.  That said, I think Moore wins this one and shows that he may not be the force, but he is a force.

Gwiazdowski/Cassar @125: Mainly because I believe Cassar is a more explosive and fast version than Snyder was when they met.  That said, I don't think Cassar really stands a chance here.  I just want to see it.

IMar/Green @ 74: I think IMar is our firm #3 right now, behind Dake/Burroughs, and I don't know that it is close.  He got sloppy with Nolf in their 2nd match, but aside from that I have seen nothing to indicate a healthy IMar loses to anyone other than those two right now.

Yianni/McKenna @ 65: I believe Yianni is going to be Top 3 for the next 2 cycles... McKenna may keep it close, but I don't think he get's it over on him again.

Lee/Fix @57 (I don't think this is competitive, as much as I wish it were)

Steveson/Gwiazdowski @125: We've seen this one and I don't think Gwiaz beats him again.  Styles make matches and where Gwiaz may control the matchups with Nelson and Bradley, he loses his athletic advantage with Steveson, and that will cost him.

Cox/Taylor @ 92 (technically a catchweight now): Cox is winning it the same way he did before, with superior size, athleticism, and speed (let's not forget that he'll bring the dish soap for the slip'n'slide I'm sure).  I don't see it really going any differently.  In a best of three Taylor may nab one with a blitzkrieg, however Cox is just the better wrestler.

Nolf/Deakin @74: Nolf isn't going back down so it'll have to be 74.  That said, if Deakin was going 74 we'd have seen him there by now.  All that considered, if Nolf stays healthy and adds a bit of size, then we're in for a treat this next cycle.  He should be Top 3 for the foreseeable.  I don't think Deakin sniffs him.

Taylor/Nickal @86: This match has literally happened thousands of times.  I don't think Taylor is ever close to losing this one in a boring, low-scoring affair.

Micic/Richards @57: See answer below, I'm just a big fan of Micic so that is why it is above. Also I believe we saw Micic transcent past Richards during his senior campaign at Illinois.

Richards/Sanders @57: Sorry... Richards is entertaining, but in the order of preference for what I want to see, he is at the bottom being that he isn't up there on our ladder, nor will he be-my opinion)

great read

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Listened to the RBY interview on Flo today.

Interesting that Jack Mueller wanted to wrestle at 65kg, and RBY said that was MORE than he currently weighs. Strange considering how Mueller was a 125lb guy. 

Seems to me that RBY and Nick Lee could both go down a weight from what they currently wrestle if they really wanted. 

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3 minutes ago, Le duke said:

Listened to the RBY interview on Flo today.

Interesting that Jack Mueller wanted to wrestle at 65kg, and RBY said that was MORE than he currently weighs. Strange considering how Mueller was a 125lb guy. 

Seems to me that RBY and Nick Lee could both go down a weight from what they currently wrestle if they really wanted. 

Depends how good they are at cutting weight. Some of the greats have been real....softies in this regard.

And also, coaches know EVERY wrestler lies about their weight.

Edited by hammerlockthree

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2 pages of responses and not a mention of GR nor WFS?  Was that all SJW posturing?  Can anyone identify a GR or WFS rivalry that is more compelling than the Folkstyle or MFS matches listed as "must see TV"?  I'm honestly not up on the weights or who is #1 vs. #2 or even better, who has a grudge to resolve.  

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14 hours ago, hammerlockthree said:

Depends how good they are at cutting weight. Some of the greats have been real....softies in this regard.

And also, coaches know EVERY wrestler lies about their weight.

Sacrificing peak performance by cutting too much weight just so people don't think you are a softie that doesn't cut as much as John Smith would like is such an outdated idea. 

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2 hours ago, TFBJR said:

2 pages of responses and not a mention of GR nor WFS?  Was that all SJW posturing?  Can anyone identify a GR or WFS rivalry that is more compelling than the Folkstyle or MFS matches listed as "must see TV"?  I'm honestly not up on the weights or who is #1 vs. #2 or even better, who has a grudge to resolve.  

Reasoning being is that we were modeling(or at least I was) the card based off of Flo's current model.  They're going Freestyle for this event.  That does not mean that they cannot do a Greco-Roman or a Women's Freestyle one.

I would love to do hypothetical cards for those styles, as well.  Nobody asked.  The only mention of any sort of it is you saying 'wtf' rather than "Why don't we..." Delivery has a wonderful way of affecting impact.  I am just as much of a fan of WFS and MGR.  I have no interest, as a fan, to see styles mixed, though.  I want my cards to be one style.  Just like when I watch a UFC fight I don't want Judo or Kickboxing matches in it.  There is no harm in that.

Edited by nhs67
Grammar Nazi

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2 hours ago, bnwtwg said:

Sacrificing peak performance by cutting too much weight just so people don't think you are a softie that doesn't cut as much as John Smith would like is such an outdated idea. 

You taking what I said, which is true, and mapping it unto whatever situation you want is a cheap and willfully ignorant mode of argumentation.

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23 hours ago, nhs67 said:

Snyder/Cox @97: I mean... c'mon.  Both are pretty much in their physical primes right now and both would be at their optimal weight(my opinion).  2 of the 5 best wrestlers in the world, if there were a U97KG weight class where everybody under 97 competed.  Why wouldn't we want to see it?  Been since 2012 since we saw them in freestyle, right?

 

since 2012, the Snyder/Cox rivalry has swung in Kyle's favor.  Snyder beat Cox in the 2015 197lb. NCAA semis and the semis of the 97kg 2015 Las Vegas/ASICS US Senior Nationals

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