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jeffrideal

Carlton Haselrig - RIP

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6 hours ago, Threadkilla said:

1973 Clarion would have placed 4th in D1 but D2 points didn't count, in  team scoring. Clarion had 3 champs in Rohn, Schalles and Bill Nelson.        RIP Champ.

Bill Simpson. Bill Nelson would have been 46.

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20 hours ago, NJDan said:

"But Haselrig’s unprecedented run of success at the top level prompted the NCAA to create the so-called “Haselrig Rule,” which bars small-school champions from moving on to the Division I tournament. That means his six titles will likely never be matched."

Haselrig's six titles were not only matched - but surpassed - over 20 years earlier.  Lock Haven's Gray Simons was a 4x NAIA champ and a 3x NCAA D-1 champ.  Moreover, he was named the outstanding wrestler in six out of seven of those national tournaments.  Haselrig was MOW at D-2 during his junior year.   Simons was MOW all 4 years in NAIA and during his junior and senior years at the D-1 tournament.

Not trying to diss the big man - may he rest in peace.  Just correcting the record.  Like NJ Dan, I'm a little skeptical of the so-called "Haselrig Rule," but - who knows - maybe he was the "straw that broke the camel's back."

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14 hours ago, NJDan said:

Wow. I had no idea.

But I don't get why this would be considered a problem. Everyone loves a Cinderella story. I could see a problem if the lower division guys were not competitive. But if they are winning, they should be celebrated.

I assume it might have had something to do with different compliance rules between D1&2 creating potential fairness loopholes. Again, just a guess. But I agree that allowing the D2 champs to compete at D1 Nationals is a good idea. If the sport contracts (rather than expands) at the D1 level, maybe the programs could ask the NCAA for a waiver for D2 participation again.

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51 minutes ago, HurricaneWrestling2 said:

Haselrig's six titles were not only matched - but surpassed - over 20 years earlier.  Lock Haven's Gray Simons was a 4x NAIA champ and a 3x NCAA D-1 champ.  Moreover, he was named the outstanding wrestler in six out of seven of those national tournaments.  Haselrig was MOW at D-2 during his junior year.   Simons was MOW all 4 years in NAIA and during his junior and senior years at the D-1 tournament.

Not trying to diss the big man - may he rest in peace.  Just correcting the record.  Like NJ Dan, I'm a little skeptical of the so-called "Haselrig Rule," but - who knows - maybe he was the "straw that broke the camel's back."

I thought the same thing (about Gray's outstanding accomplishments) when I first heard it, then realized they are talking "NCAA" titles, not NAIA+NCAA titles.

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KCMO2 asked about Carlton Haselrig's two college losses. I believe that they were both to Dean Hall of Edinboro, one in the semi-finals of the DII nationals when Haselrig was a freshman.  (Haselrig took 3rd and Hall won.) In 1987, Haselrig defeated Hall for the DI title (with Edinboro evidently having moved to DI that year).  Haselrig also had one tie during his junior year (1988). Unfortunately, I can't remember the name of that wrestler. 

There were many factors that led to the "Haselrig Rule. " I was coaching DIII in the late 1980s so I heard all the arguments, though my memory is a little rusty. Some DI coaches wanted  to eliminate DII and DIII wrestlers from advancing in order to allow for more DI wrestlers to qualify. Some DI coaches argued that, in no other NCAA sport with separate divisions, did athletes from DI or DII advance to the DI nationals.  Some DI coaches (and even some DIII coaches) did not believe that DIII wrestlers were competitive at the DI nationals. Haselrig came along and heated up the debate when he won back to back to back DI titles, but the discussion had started before he came on the scene.

I think that the 1988-89 season was the last year that DII and DIII champions had full automatic qualification for DI nationals; however, a few of the DII and DIII champions competed at the 1990 DI nationals under a grandfather provision when advancement was eliminated (and I think one DII champion--Dan Russell--competed in the 1991 DI nationals.)

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1 hour ago, High Leg Over said:

KCMO2 asked about Carlton Haselrig's two college losses. I believe that they were both to Dean Hall of Edinboro, one in the semi-finals of the DII nationals when Haselrig was a freshman.  (Haselrig took 3rd and Hall won.) In 1987, Haselrig defeated Hall for the DI title (with Edinboro evidently having moved to DI that year).  Haselrig also had one tie during his junior year (1988). Unfortunately, I can't remember the name of that wrestler. 

There were many factors that led to the "Haselrig Rule. " I was coaching DIII in the late 1980s so I heard all the arguments, though my memory is a little rusty. Some DI coaches wanted  to eliminate DII and DIII wrestlers from advancing in order to allow for more DI wrestlers to qualify. Some DI coaches argued that, in no other NCAA sport with separate divisions, did athletes from DI or DII advance to the DI nationals.  Some DI coaches (and even some DIII coaches) did not believe that DIII wrestlers were competitive at the DI nationals. Haselrig came along and heated up the debate when he won back to back to back DI titles, but the discussion had started before he came on the scene.

I think that the 1988-89 season was the last year that DII and DIII champions had full automatic qualification for DI nationals; however, a few of the DII and DIII champions competed at the 1990 DI nationals under a grandfather provision when advancement was eliminated (and I think one DII champion--Dan Russell--competed in the 1991 DI nationals.)

I believe that "tie/draw" was possibly an All Star match versus Greenlee of Northern Iowa?

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Correct. Haselrig tied Joel Greenlee 4-4 at the 1988 All-Star Classic. I'm not positive, but if Jay Hammond had it on his record, I'd rest assured those matches counted as official bouts back then. The rules have fluctuated on what counts and doesn't count. 

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6 hours ago, High Leg Over said:

KCMO2 asked about Carlton Haselrig's two college losses. I believe that they were both to Dean Hall of Edinboro, one in the semi-finals of the DII nationals when Haselrig was a freshman.  (Haselrig took 3rd and Hall won.) In 1987, Haselrig defeated Hall for the DI title (with Edinboro evidently having moved to DI that year).  Haselrig also had one tie during his junior year (1988). Unfortunately, I can't remember the name of that wrestler. 

There were many factors that led to the "Haselrig Rule. " I was coaching DIII in the late 1980s so I heard all the arguments, though my memory is a little rusty. Some DI coaches wanted  to eliminate DII and DIII wrestlers from advancing in order to allow for more DI wrestlers to qualify. Some DI coaches argued that, in no other NCAA sport with separate divisions, did athletes from DI or DII advance to the DI nationals.  Some DI coaches (and even some DIII coaches) did not believe that DIII wrestlers were competitive at the DI nationals. Haselrig came along and heated up the debate when he won back to back to back DI titles, but the discussion had started before he came on the scene.

I think that the 1988-89 season was the last year that DII and DIII champions had full automatic qualification for DI nationals; however, a few of the DII and DIII champions competed at the 1990 DI nationals under a grandfather provision when advancement was eliminated (and I think one DII champion--Dan Russell--competed in the 1991 DI nationals.)

He definitely lost twice to Hall prior to winning his first title. In the forward to Giant Killer his head coach says that Haselrig met Hall in NCAA finals and was 2-2 vs him leading to up to it having won the last two. 

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Little known fact about Carlton. He actually went to LHU his freshman year and was behind Rick Peterson out of Renovo who was the top ranked HWT at the start of the 1984-85 season. Peterson later got beat early at NCAA's and I don't think he even placed. Regardless, Carlton didn't see eye to eye with Thad Turner and transferred to UPJ mid year. The rest as they say is history

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10 hours ago, High Leg Over said:

KCMO2 asked about Carlton Haselrig's two college losses. I believe that they were both to Dean Hall of Edinboro, one in the semi-finals of the DII nationals when Haselrig was a freshman.  (Haselrig took 3rd and Hall won.) In 1987, Haselrig defeated Hall for the DI title (with Edinboro evidently having moved to DI that year).  Haselrig also had one tie during his junior year (1988). Unfortunately, I can't remember the name of that wrestler. 

There were many factors that led to the "Haselrig Rule. " I was coaching DIII in the late 1980s so I heard all the arguments, though my memory is a little rusty. Some DI coaches wanted  to eliminate DII and DIII wrestlers from advancing in order to allow for more DI wrestlers to qualify. Some DI coaches argued that, in no other NCAA sport with separate divisions, did athletes from DI or DII advance to the DI nationals.  Some DI coaches (and even some DIII coaches) did not believe that DIII wrestlers were competitive at the DI nationals. Haselrig came along and heated up the debate when he won back to back to back DI titles, but the discussion had started before he came on the scene.

I think that the 1988-89 season was the last year that DII and DIII champions had full automatic qualification for DI nationals; however, a few of the DII and DIII champions competed at the 1990 DI nationals under a grandfather provision when advancement was eliminated (and I think one DII champion--Dan Russell--competed in the 1991 DI nationals.)

Just looked at the 1991 D1 bracket - Dan Russell (Portland State) was the # 1 seed, but lost to  the eventual champ Mark Reiland (Iowa) 5-4 in the semi-finals.  He ended up in 4th place, losing to Charlie Jones (Purdue) 2-0 in the consolation finals.

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2 hours ago, Pennsy Kraken said:

Little known fact about Carlton. He actually went to LHU his freshman year and was behind Rick Peterson out of Renovo who was the top ranked HWT at the start of the 1984-85 season. Peterson later got beat early at NCAA's and I don't think he even placed. Regardless, Carlton didn't see eye to eye with Thad Turner and transferred to UPJ mid year. The rest as they say is history

That's a fact not known by anybody at all since Thad Turner was the coach at Lehigh at the time.

Neil Turner.

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17 hours ago, Pennsy Kraken said:

Little known fact about Carlton. He actually went to LHU his freshman year and was behind Rick Peterson out of Renovo who was the top ranked HWT at the start of the 1984-85 season. Peterson later got beat early at NCAA's and I don't think he even placed. Regardless, Carlton didn't see eye to eye with Thad Turner and transferred to UPJ mid year. The rest as they say is history

I read that he also got injured playing football

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