AnklePicker 481 Report post Posted July 23 I’d hate to see all this hype turn into Nolf vs Oliver. Winners should be paid a little more or offer a match of the night bonus to incentivize the wrestlers to get after it. 1 Eagle26 reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MadMardigain 1,222 Report post Posted July 23 Be nice to have some type of upwards bonus scale if it increased the action. Pretty easy leveled system could be set up starting with the win bonus. Then going added pay for how much you won by. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VakAttack 2,561 Report post Posted July 23 I doubt it, especially since there are college kids competing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pamela 1,334 Report post Posted July 23 They should call them Flonuses. 3 btb1127, JHRoseWrestling and Wrestleknownothing reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LJB 1,430 Report post Posted July 23 they should rightfully ignore any such nonsense because it does not incentivize any action... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1032004 775 Report post Posted July 23 17 minutes ago, LJB said: they should rightfully ignore any such nonsense because it does not incentivize any action... Agreed....if anything a win bonus would incentivize them to be more conservative. ”Match of the night” bonus might not be a horrible idea though Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pamela 1,334 Report post Posted July 23 Bonus (I mean Flonus) would probably have to be sizeable and on a sliding scale based on total points, tech and pin to have an effect. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scorenomore 62 Report post Posted July 23 I posted an idea a while ago about $1,000 per point spread. No one liked the idea. Flo should divide the purse for the 2 athletes into thirds. Each wrestler gets a third and the balance is divided by 10 points. Winner gets the one third plus the payout for point spread. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maligned 455 Report post Posted July 23 Performance of the night and match of the night seem much more realistic and palatable for incentivizing action. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AnklePicker 481 Report post Posted July 24 (edited) 9 hours ago, LJB said: they should rightfully ignore any such nonsense because it does not incentivize any action... So you’re telling me had they told Jordan Oliver he’d get 10k if he won the match vs Nolf and 1k if he lost he wouldn’t have wrestled more aggressively? Please. Edited July 24 by AnklePicker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dmm53 467 Report post Posted July 24 Is there a team score being kept? Two Ohio State guys. Two PSU guys. Two Cornell guys. Where is Iowa? It would have been interesting to throw in DeSanto or Spencer Lee vs. Fix, or say Eierman vs. Nick Lee or Yianni. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LJB 1,430 Report post Posted July 24 11 hours ago, AnklePicker said: So you’re telling me had they told Jordan Oliver he’d get 10k if he won the match vs Nolf and 1k if he lost he wouldn’t have wrestled more aggressively? Please. all you have to do is look the combat sports where there are bonuses where these people are actually depending on the money to make a living... what it has shown is that the "bonuses" actually make fighters play it safer to protect the win... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AnklePicker 481 Report post Posted July 24 1 hour ago, LJB said: all you have to do is look the combat sports where there are bonuses where these people are actually depending on the money to make a living... what it has shown is that the "bonuses" actually make fighters play it safer to protect the win... Well maybe that is true if you’re talking about bonuses for winning, although it’s certainly debatable, but every time I watch a UFC event I hear fighters calling for the fight of the night bonus. It makes a difference. Why do they even have them in the UFC? 1 Ogalthorpe Haywood reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chet Hanson 2 Report post Posted July 24 Performance of the night bonus at any Flo event should be to have control of their staffs' Twitter accounts and be able to talk sh!t about women's wrestling and anthem protests. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LJB 1,430 Report post Posted July 24 9 minutes ago, AnklePicker said: Well maybe that is true if you’re talking about bonuses for winning, although it’s certainly debatable, but every time I watch a UFC event I hear fighters calling for the fight of the night bonus. It makes a difference. Why do they even have them in the UFC? of course they want the bonus... it is their lively hood... no one at this event is counting on this to feed their families... but, if the numbers that were thrown out are accurate, those who can get paid are doing pretty good for 6 minutes of work... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle26 418 Report post Posted July 24 Something like $1000 for every point you win by and $12k for a pin would certainly increase action. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Billyhoyle 1,962 Report post Posted July 25 “Performance” bonuses are an awful idea. The wrestlers should be incentivized to win, not entertain. That’s what separates actual sports like Baseball/wrestling/football from “entertainment” like WWE and UFC. A win bonus makes sense though, but then things like the weight allowances might get a bit trickier. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle26 418 Report post Posted July 25 3 hours ago, Billyhoyle said: “Performance” bonuses are an awful idea. The wrestlers should be incentivized to win, not entertain. That’s what separates actual sports like Baseball/wrestling/football from “entertainment” like WWE and UFC. A win bonus makes sense though, but then things like the weight allowances might get a bit trickier. Isn’t entertainment the sole purpose of this event? For a meaningful event like the world championships, I would agree. But here, I think a performance incentive makes sense. I’d rather see Dake and Chamizo let the sparks fly even if it doesn’t give us an honest look at who may have the edge for the Olympics. Would you rather see Dake shut him down and win 2-0? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ogalthorpe Haywood 308 Report post Posted July 25 4 hours ago, Billyhoyle said: “Performance” bonuses are an awful idea. The wrestlers should be incentivized to win, not entertain. That’s what separates actual sports like Baseball/wrestling/football from “entertainment” like WWE and UFC. A win bonus makes sense though, but then things like the weight allowances might get a bit trickier. This take makes zero sense. This is purely for entertainment, nothing to gain or lose here besides bragging rights and for the senior level guys a little pay day. JO Nolf was a product of a just trying to win or get by mentality. 1 Eagle26 reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ogalthorpe Haywood 308 Report post Posted July 25 21 hours ago, LJB said: all you have to do is look the combat sports where there are bonuses where these people are actually depending on the money to make a living... what it has shown is that the "bonuses" actually make fighters play it safer to protect the win... A win bonus is a bad idea but entertainment bonuses in combat sports have done the exact opposite of what you say. They incentivize these athletes to go for knockouts or submissions in the UFC instead of just holding of for the win. Not sure where you get your data from but it’s definitely not correct. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LJB 1,430 Report post Posted July 25 45 minutes ago, Ogalthorpe Haywood said: A win bonus is a bad idea but entertainment bonuses in combat sports have done the exact opposite of what you say. They incentivize these athletes to go for knockouts or submissions in the UFC instead of just holding of for the win. Not sure where you get your data from but it’s definitely not correct. The UFC had to quit offering specific knockout or submission bonuses because they were having too many events with neither... so they changed it to just a performance bonus so they could still award the extra money for a drunken brawl... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LJB 1,430 Report post Posted July 25 the end score of any match does not tell the story of whether it was “entertaining”... A 20-18 wrestling match is not entertainment... it is almost always just sloppy wrestling... Might as well watch basketball... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle26 418 Report post Posted July 25 4 minutes ago, LJB said: the end score of any match does not tell the story of whether it was “entertaining”... A 20-18 wrestling match is not entertainment... it is almost always just sloppy wrestling... Might as well watch basketball... You think if any match on this card ended with a 20-18 score, it would be sloppy wrestling? Lol. That’s often the case with jr. high matches, but when guys like Dake and Chamizo are putting up double digit points, it’s some exciting wrestling with high level technique! I agree the match score doesn’t always tell how exciting it is, but there is a correlation. JO vs Nolf is a good example... if JO has some extra incentive to put up points, we would have had some entertaining scrambles at least Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AnklePicker 481 Report post Posted July 25 (edited) 42 minutes ago, LJB said: The UFC had to quit offering specific knockout or submission bonuses because they were having too many events with neither... so they changed it to just a performance bonus so they could still award the extra money for a drunken brawl... And what’s you point? The fact is they still give out bonuses to incentivize exciting fights. If bonuses don’t work why does the UFC use them? Billyhoyle, WWE is entertainment/fake, UFC is not. Big difference. A win bonus actually makes less sense because like LJB said I could see them playing it close to try to eek out the win. But a performance of the night or match of the night bonus would certainly incentivize them to get after it. Edited July 25 by AnklePicker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Billyhoyle 1,962 Report post Posted July 25 (edited) 3 hours ago, Eagle26 said: Isn’t entertainment the sole purpose of this event? For a meaningful event like the world championships, I would agree. But here, I think a performance incentive makes sense. I’d rather see Dake and Chamizo let the sparks fly even if it doesn’t give us an honest look at who may have the edge for the Olympics. Would you rather see Dake shut him down and win 2-0? 1 hour ago, Ogalthorpe Haywood said: This take makes zero sense. This is purely for entertainment, nothing to gain or lose here besides bragging rights and for the senior level guys a little pay day. JO Nolf was a product of a just trying to win or get by mentality. You’re right that ethically I don’t have a problem with an entertainment bonus in this wrestling match, since it is an exhibition. For me though it would detract from the outcome, since I would wonder whether the athletes were trying their best to win or just trying to be entertaining. A win bonus would be great because it would add incentive for these guys to try to win/train for it. I do think ethically the entertainment bonus should not be in UFC, which markets itself as an actual sport, but in reality has become somewhere between sport and WWE (the BAMF title is another of many examples of this). The matches in UFC aren’t fixed, but the incentives are screwed up so that fighters sometimes make stupid choices for the sake of being entertaining, since this leads to a better payday. Edited July 25 by Billyhoyle Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
