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AnklePicker

Is flo offering bonuses?

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17 minutes ago, LJB said:

they should rightfully ignore any such nonsense because it does not incentivize any action...

Agreed....if anything a win bonus would incentivize them to be more conservative.

”Match of the night” bonus might not be a horrible idea though

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I posted an idea a while ago about $1,000 per point spread.  No one liked the idea.  
 

Flo should divide the purse for the 2 athletes into thirds.  Each wrestler gets a third and the balance is divided by 10 points. Winner gets the one third plus the payout for point spread.  

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9 hours ago, LJB said:

they should rightfully ignore any such nonsense because it does not incentivize any action...

So you’re telling me had they told Jordan Oliver he’d get 10k if he won the match vs Nolf and 1k if he lost he wouldn’t have wrestled more aggressively?  Please. 

Edited by AnklePicker

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Is there a team score being kept?  

Two Ohio State guys.  Two PSU guys.   Two Cornell guys. 

Where is Iowa?  It would have been interesting to throw in DeSanto or Spencer Lee vs. Fix, or say Eierman vs. Nick Lee or Yianni.

 

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11 hours ago, AnklePicker said:

So you’re telling me had they told Jordan Oliver he’d get 10k if he won the match vs Nolf and 1k if he lost he wouldn’t have wrestled more aggressively?  Please. 

all you have to do is look the combat sports where there are bonuses where these people are actually depending on the money to make a living... what it has shown is that the "bonuses" actually make fighters play it safer to protect the win...

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1 hour ago, LJB said:

all you have to do is look the combat sports where there are bonuses where these people are actually depending on the money to make a living... what it has shown is that the "bonuses" actually make fighters play it safer to protect the win...

Well maybe that is true if you’re talking about bonuses for winning, although it’s certainly debatable, but every time I watch a UFC event I hear fighters calling for the fight of the night bonus. It makes a difference.  Why do they even have them in the UFC?

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9 minutes ago, AnklePicker said:

Well maybe that is true if you’re talking about bonuses for winning, although it’s certainly debatable, but every time I watch a UFC event I hear fighters calling for the fight of the night bonus. It makes a difference.  Why do they even have them in the UFC?

of course they want the bonus... it is their lively hood...

no one at this event is counting on this to feed their families...

but, if the numbers that were thrown out are accurate, those who can get paid are doing pretty good for 6 minutes of work...

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“Performance” bonuses are an awful idea. The wrestlers should be incentivized to win, not entertain.  That’s what separates actual sports like Baseball/wrestling/football from “entertainment” like WWE and UFC. A win bonus makes sense though, but then things like the weight allowances might get a bit trickier. 

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3 hours ago, Billyhoyle said:

“Performance” bonuses are an awful idea. The wrestlers should be incentivized to win, not entertain.  That’s what separates actual sports like Baseball/wrestling/football from “entertainment” like WWE and UFC. A win bonus makes sense though, but then things like the weight allowances might get a bit trickier. 

Isn’t entertainment the sole purpose of this event? For a meaningful event like the world championships, I would agree. But here, I think a performance incentive makes sense. I’d rather see Dake and Chamizo let the sparks fly even if it doesn’t give us an honest look at who may have the edge for the Olympics. Would you rather see Dake shut him down and win 2-0?

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4 hours ago, Billyhoyle said:

“Performance” bonuses are an awful idea. The wrestlers should be incentivized to win, not entertain.  That’s what separates actual sports like Baseball/wrestling/football from “entertainment” like WWE and UFC. A win bonus makes sense though, but then things like the weight allowances might get a bit trickier. 

This take makes zero sense. This is purely for entertainment, nothing to gain or lose here besides bragging rights and for the senior level guys a little pay day. JO  Nolf was a product of a just trying to win or get by mentality. 

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21 hours ago, LJB said:

all you have to do is look the combat sports where there are bonuses where these people are actually depending on the money to make a living... what it has shown is that the "bonuses" actually make fighters play it safer to protect the win...

A win bonus is a bad idea but entertainment bonuses in combat sports have done the exact opposite of what you say. They incentivize these athletes to go for knockouts or submissions in the UFC instead of just holding of for the win. Not sure where you get your data from but it’s definitely not correct. 

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45 minutes ago, Ogalthorpe Haywood said:

A win bonus is a bad idea but entertainment bonuses in combat sports have done the exact opposite of what you say. They incentivize these athletes to go for knockouts or submissions in the UFC instead of just holding of for the win. Not sure where you get your data from but it’s definitely not correct. 

The UFC had to quit offering specific knockout or submission bonuses because they were having too many events with neither... so they changed it to just a performance bonus so they could still award the extra money for a drunken brawl...

 

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the end score of any match does not tell the story of whether it was “entertaining”...

A 20-18 wrestling match is not entertainment... it is almost always just sloppy wrestling... Might as well watch basketball...

 

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4 minutes ago, LJB said:

the end score of any match does not tell the story of whether it was “entertaining”...

A 20-18 wrestling match is not entertainment... it is almost always just sloppy wrestling... Might as well watch basketball...

 

You think if any match on this card ended with a 20-18 score, it would be sloppy wrestling? Lol. That’s often the case with jr. high matches, but when guys like Dake and Chamizo are putting up double digit points, it’s some exciting wrestling with high level technique! I agree the match score doesn’t always tell how exciting it is, but there is a correlation. JO vs Nolf is a good example... if JO has some extra incentive to put up points, we would have had some entertaining scrambles at least

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42 minutes ago, LJB said:

The UFC had to quit offering specific knockout or submission bonuses because they were having too many events with neither... so they changed it to just a performance bonus so they could still award the extra money for a drunken brawl...

 

And what’s you point?  The fact is they still give out bonuses to incentivize exciting fights. If bonuses don’t work why does the UFC use them?
 

Billyhoyle, WWE is entertainment/fake, UFC is not. Big difference. A win bonus actually makes less sense because like LJB said I could see them playing it close to try to eek out the win. But a performance of the night or match of the night bonus would certainly incentivize them to get after it. 

Edited by AnklePicker

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3 hours ago, Eagle26 said:

Isn’t entertainment the sole purpose of this event? For a meaningful event like the world championships, I would agree. But here, I think a performance incentive makes sense. I’d rather see Dake and Chamizo let the sparks fly even if it doesn’t give us an honest look at who may have the edge for the Olympics. Would you rather see Dake shut him down and win 2-0?

 

1 hour ago, Ogalthorpe Haywood said:

This take makes zero sense. This is purely for entertainment, nothing to gain or lose here besides bragging rights and for the senior level guys a little pay day. JO  Nolf was a product of a just trying to win or get by mentality. 

You’re right that ethically I don’t have a problem with an entertainment bonus in this wrestling match, since it is an exhibition. For me though it would detract from the outcome, since I would wonder whether the athletes were trying their best to win or just trying to be entertaining. A win bonus would be great because it would add incentive for these guys to try to win/train for it. I do think ethically the entertainment bonus should not be in UFC, which markets itself as an actual sport, but in reality has become somewhere between sport and WWE (the BAMF title is another of many examples of this). The matches in UFC aren’t fixed, but the incentives are screwed up so that fighters sometimes make stupid choices for the sake of being entertaining, since this leads to a better payday. 

Edited by Billyhoyle

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