Taylor vs. Sadulaev

[Crotalus 463]

On 7/26/2020 at 1:30 AM, dmm53 said:

A few quick points to consider:

First of all, Taylor has in fact beaten Cox and fairly soundly in one of the three matches they've wrestled.   The last of the three matches was clearly marked by controversy as well as Cox's waterlogged body and the the small Oxbow lake that formed on the mat via his sweat glands.

The only controversy is that Taylor tried to break J'den's leg because he couldn't score. J'den had to wrestle the rest of the match on a bad wheel and Taylor still couldn't score. In fact, J'den scored two push outs after that. Taylor fans need to get past the sweat and realize he can't (or couldn't at the time) get passed world class defense. Same reason he could never beat Dake.

21 hours ago, Ogalthorpe Haywood said:

At 86kg under the current weigh in rules? I think DT beats him by at least 6. Taylor was better than him in 2018, he did something Cox never could. Win a gold medal at an Olympic weight. Cox failed twice, Cox won his gold medals at a much less competitive weight. I’m not sure the Yaz match will be that different because to push the pace is also his style. 

Taylor couldn't even make the team the years J'den won bronze, so your argument is pointless.

[hammerlockthree 2,083]

7 hours ago, Shiraz123 said:

No, I think Yazdani would be a clear p4p number 2 if he'd won the worlds in 2018 instead of losing to Taylor. Still behind Sadulaev as Sadulaev would have dominated both 86 and 97. Yazdani was only at 74 for less than a year and left as soon as he won the Olympic gold. 

I don't think its clear by any means. He has wrestled at senior worlds 5 times, and all but 6 matches were match terminations in his favor. You referencing his olympic title as a 21 year old at a tough weight as a mark against him doesn't make much sense to me. 

I think the difference between Sad and Yazdani is that Sad's loss is longer ago and has been avenged....but anyway this is a roundabout way of my saying I think Taylor might be the best on earth.....

[Plasmodium 1,677]

1 hour ago, Crotalus said:

The only controversy is that Taylor tried to break J'den's leg because he couldn't score. J'den had to wrestle the rest of the match on a bad wheel and Taylor still couldn't score. In fact, J'den scored two push outs after that. Taylor fans need to get past the sweat and realize he can't (or couldn't at the time) get passed world class defense. Same reason he could never beat Dake.

Taylor couldn't even make the team the years J'den won bronze, so your argument is pointless.

Spot on.  DT has some loyal fans and they do not understand object permanence.

[nhs67 1,225]

2 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

If Taylor did not exist then what are Yazdani's losses the past 5 years? 

Magomedrasul Gazimagomedov

[hammerlockthree 2,083]

54 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Magomedrasul Gazimagomedov

Thats going back to 2015 at 70 kilos right?

[nhs67 1,225]

21 minutes ago, hammerlockthree said:

Thats going back to 2015 at 70 kilos right?

Yes. Yous said 5 years, my man.

[Ogalthorpe Haywood 346]

3 hours ago, Crotalus said:

The only controversy is that Taylor tried to break J'den's leg because he couldn't score. J'den had to wrestle the rest of the match on a bad wheel and Taylor still couldn't score. In fact, J'den scored two push outs after that. Taylor fans need to get past the sweat and realize he can't (or couldn't at the time) get passed world class defense. Same reason he could never beat Dake.

Taylor couldn't even make the team the years J'den won bronze, so your argument is pointless.

Somebody’s not very good at reading. I said under these current weigh in rules. Also it wasn’t just a sweat thing it was Cox sliding around the mat and barely engaging. DT literally pushed from one side to the other and the ref did nothing. 

[bnwtwg 621]

On 7/26/2020 at 12:30 AM, dmm53 said:

JB and DT have won at (arguably tougher) Olympic weights. 

If they arbitrarily changed the olympic weights to 79 and 92 would people quit pointing to this as if it's not a huge asterisk? 16-24 pounds between weight classes is massive at the world level.

[bnwtwg 621]

3 hours ago, Crotalus said:

Taylor couldn't even make the team the years J'den won bronze, so your argument is pointless.

At an Olympic weight no less!

[ShakaAloha 207]

I am a huge David Taylor fan, but Sadulaev would smoke him.  Sadulaev has only lost once as a senior and it was to Snyder when he was adjusting to 97.  He has since proven that match was a one-time thing, and that he is the king of 97 and the P4P best in the world.  If you were to put odds on another Sadulaev-Snyder match it would be at least 4-1 in favor of the Russian.  If you were to put odds on a Taylor-Snyder match at 97, it would be 1-1 at best, or 3-2 in favor of Snyder.  If Sadulaev were to wrestle DT, it would be 5-1 odds in his favor if not more.  

A much more compelling match-up would be Sidakov-Taylor at 86.  Sidakov is undefeated against Burroughs, who Taylor has never beaten.

The American with the best shot against Sadulaev is Cox, but even he would be an underdog.  From Sadulaev's perspective, the only matches outside his weight that would make sense are against Taha and Gino.  

Edited July 27, 2020 by ShakaAloha
typo

[jross 400]

4 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

If Taylor did not exist then what are Yazdani's losses the past 5 years? 

Per the Public UWW database...

Alexander Medved Prizes | 2016-02-18 Minsk (BLR) | 74.0 kg
    1. Tsabolov, Khetik -- Russian Federation | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEt42MtqQ1U (by pin!)... yazdani gets him back by tfall https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lV_vlgK3oI

Grand Prix of Paris | 2016-01-29 Paris (FRA) | 74.0 kg
    1. Shabanov, Ali -- Belarus | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1p4Nu8cZ_M (...to the last second)

 

World Championship | 2015-09-10 Las Vegas (USA) | 70.0 kg
    1. Gazimagomedov, Magomedrasul -- Russian Federation | https://www.flowrestling.org/video/5541309-70kg-final-magomedrasul-gazimagomedov-rus-vs-hassan-yazdani-charati-iri

World Championship | Freestyle Cadets | 2011-08-23 Szombathely (HUN) | 50.0 kg
    1. Rashidov, Gadshimurad -- Russian Federation    RUS     | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRcIoF4k0jo (...young gun)

 

...

[hammerlockthree 2,083]

1 hour ago, nhs67 said:

Yes. Yous said 5 years, my man.

yeah sure, I'm just making sure I didn't miss a loss in there somewhere.

[nhs67 1,225]

5 minutes ago, hammerlockthree said:

yeah sure, I'm just making sure I didn't miss a loss in there somewhere.

I think you're right on there 

[Shiraz123 655]

2 hours ago, hammerlockthree said:

I don't think its clear by any means. He has wrestled at senior worlds 5 times, and all but 6 matches were match terminations in his favor. You referencing his olympic title as a 21 year old at a tough weight as a mark against him doesn't make much sense to me. 

I think the difference between Sad and Yazdani is that Sad's loss is longer ago and has been avenged....but anyway this is a roundabout way of my saying I think Taylor might be the best on earth.....

Not saying it as a mark against him really, just saying that Sadulaev has legit dominated 2 weight classes. Hassan was not  dominant at 74kg , he did have some very impressive accomplishments and obviously won the most important tournament but he did not dominate the weight class. When comparing p4p wrestlers that is important, which is why I think Sadulaev would still be the best p4p even if Yazdani had not lost to Taylor.  

[hammerlockthree 2,083]

5 minutes ago, Shiraz123 said:

Not saying it as a mark against him really, just saying that Sadulaev has legit dominated 2 weight classes. Hassan was not  dominant at 74kg , he did have some very impressive accomplishments and obviously won the most important tournament but he did not dominate the weight class. When comparing p4p wrestlers that is important, which is why I think Sadulaev would still be the best p4p even if Yazdani had not lost to Taylor.  

He didn't dominate it but he won the weight that included included the Burroughs when he was considered the p4p best in the world. His scores were 10-0, 7-0, 10-0 6-6.

I'm not trying to overstate the strength of my case here, I know he didn't beat Burroughs obviously....I guess I just don't think its fair to point to a one 6-6 win against a beast like geduev and say "see he didn't dominate the weight". 

One weakness in my case, and something that supports yours is that I think Yazdani developed from where he started at the age of 20, where as Sad has been kicking butt for so long its hard for us to even tell if he's getting better.

[pamela 1,334]

I'm curious to see where Russian Tank's uh, tank is at. He had covid a couple of months ago, but physicians are seeing young people who contract and recover from the virus and feel otherwise OK, but have underlying problems with their lungs, heart, brain, kidney and circulatory system.

Eduardo Rodriguez, age 27, from the Red Sox might be an example - caught covid, recovered and felt fine, but then couldn't throw 20 pitches before getting overly fatigued due to cardiac-related issues. Maybe it's just a matter of him needing more recovery time, but physicians are learning that these chronic long-term issues seem to be a byproduct of covid infections in some patients, like those marathon runners who caught and got over c19 in March but still can't run more than a few blocks. Hopefully Sadulaev is 100%. I'm not sure who else in the wrestling world got sick, but that's something to look out for.

[pamela 1,334]

DT - Cox would be a good match.

[D White 10]

1 minute ago, pamela said:

DT - Cox would be a good match.

Yes, agreed.  Cox would be heavily favored but I would love to see it.  

[hammerlockthree 2,083]

6 minutes ago, D White said:

Yes, agreed.  Cox would be heavily favored but I would love to see it.  

Heavily? Taylor has a 9-3 win over Cox

[1032004 931]

I'm confused...is Taylor going up to 97 if this year's worlds happen?

 

[BigTimeFan 1,032]

Eat, practice, prepare is the new eat, pray love. 
 

I mean DT got better. It happens. Not the first time. He’s a better wrestler now than when Dake and JB beat him. He jumped a level since his early post-college years. We don’t see it a lot which is why I think people have so much trouble seeing it.’I think about Jake Herbert who won a silver after college and never  did better. Never improved. Or Pat Smith who won four NCAA titles and never made a world team. Never improved. Metcalf who made a zillion world teams but didn’t medal. Never improved. Taylor improved. He’s a better wrestler now. 
 

Can he beat Dake or JB? That’s a different story. Can he beat Sadulaev? I doubt it but not because he lost to Dake so many times rather because Sadulaev is once in a generation. I do think he’d give him one of the best matches we’ve seen. 

[nhs67 1,225]

Why is nobody mentioning that it is odd that as soon as Yazdani went to 86 keggers, Sad went to 97?

[nhs67 1,225]

Insertduck.gif

[ConnorsDad 593]

16 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Why is nobody mentioning that it is odd that as soon as Yazdani went to 86 keggers, Sad went to 97?

I think it is more of a timing issue and where they're at in their career than a duck.

[bnwtwg 621]

Doc said it's a case of quackitus